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Otherwise, I like the sound of the addition. I really support the idea of more terrain, I like their city scape stuff and would like to see what else they can shove out to the masses.
I doubt it for the Thunderhawk.
At least someone agrees about the T-hawk. I know this thread will develop more and I can just hear people getting all warm and fuzzy over the thought of it.
I don't doubt the Thunderhawk is coming. In fact I would be surprised if it didn't show up sometime in the next year. Think about all that's happened recently and will happen soon; they expanded the Baneblade family line considerably and put out the Stompa. They're set to release the plastic Valkyries soon and a lot of people thought that would never happen. They're streamlining their processes, putting more plastic in the box for less money (I'm looking at you, Sentinel with every option for the cost of the cheapest current Sentinel). They know for a fact that a plastic Thunderhawk would sell like hot cakes and it wouldn't cost them that much to make it. It's mostly flat surfaces and could easily be hollow with some supports inside like long, locking pegs. Is it really that absurd to think that GW might make a smart move, just because it seems too large right now? That seems like the perfect choice for a niche company to make, especially with Privateer Press really dogging at their heels for the last few years. They need to bite back with something big now that they're moving to high quality plastics.
Look at the new guard infantry boxes - one of GW's largest cons of recent times. That's hardly more for less.
Also, it would be nice to see some things like trenches. I know FW and armorcast have theirs, but some cheaper modular plastic ones would be cool
Eldar and Tau would be more sensible but I think there's 2 things going against them... In the fluff humanity is the most vast and numerous of all the races, and the imperial races together are the most played. I'd love to fight a boarding mission on a craftworld though.
I agree though that making Ork terrain isn't too hard, but I would love to see some official xenos terrain sets other than a few cool but expensive barricades.
No the meotic spore doesn't count.
I bet there will be a number of highly thematic mission types with highly non-standard FOCs in order to mix things up and best make use of any of the plastic kits released for Planetstrike.
I'm excited about the new terrain.
Any ideas on how much a plastic Thunderhawk would cost?
everything has a cost, weather you have to pay for it, or weather GW pays for it for you.
Pretty sure you knew that too.
Extra points for you.
That Dread and vulkan will be pre-ordered definitely, perhaps even the planetstrike, perhaps its time for me to save =)
EH. I would also love to see some Xeno Terrain.
And it would be nice for them to continue with the codexes, hopefully, 2 a year, with new models released, and keeping them at the great quality they are doing so far.
I forsee all of these rumors coming true, personal opinion, and look forward to when they do. They game gets much more dynamic all the time, 5h ed outflanking, dawn of war deployment, etc., and for me it makes it a much more enjoyabe game.
if you take GW's price scheme for the other FW-> palstic sets (baneblades, valkyrie) it will cost 300$.
If something similar happens to the Thunderhawk it would cost ~£150, don't know how many dollars GW would ask for that
im all for expansions to the standard 3 missions in the 5th book, because frankly guys that shit is starting to get a tad boring. i mean, i love my 5th ed games, but they needed this product i think to add some fluff and spice to the whole deal.
between this, apocalypse (which i play quite a good amount of), and standard 5th, they have struck a nice balance of options.
oh and personally cant wait to see how vulkan looks ;)
thunderthawk.. we shall see. im not holding my breath over it because it has come up as a rumor and got squashed so many times. if it comes along though, i will be pleasently suprised!
i would suspect an eldar super heavy or flyer plastic release in the somewhat near future.
ciao
And Plastic Thunderhawk is 97837823% not going to happen,
Not too surprising. But Yeah, I agree they generally have no idea what's going on in the GW world as far as releases and rumours go.
Apocalypse, Stompas, Plastic Valkyries, New Space Marine Codex, New Ork Codex are all "rumours" that they vehemently denied when I asked about them originally. Pretty much, so far, every "rumour" I've come across has been more or less accurate and the Red Shirts didn't know the first thing about them.
I stopped listening to them.
The barricades do look good imho, but I doubt the release of an AA turret for 40K.
Having different FOCs makes little sense to me and I hope it's not true. Other wise you change the game from its *pick me up* nature, to being forced into premeditate army lists; on Tuesdays night game I'm going to be an attacker/defender. Which I'm not crazy about.
Though, I suppose rather than having everyone build *take all comers* lists, you could have everyone make 1 attacker list and 1 defender list that way you can have everyone roll off on matching up and still keep flexibility (our play group is large and we never know how many or who will be showing up for game night).
And a plastic warhound would make more sense than a thunderhawk. Pretty much every imperial player wants at least one, although there would probably be some fight over it with forge world due to it being such a big seller.
Then GW started making their cardboard buildings, and they sold really well, so someone thought "Hey! we could sell shit!". It's no secret that cities of death came about to sell people GW terrain, and make people modify their existing forces to something more "suitable" for city fighting.
And as for Apocalypse, what a brainwave! If we tell people that fighting massive battles with tonnes of huge models is fun, then we'll sell more models. Sure, it's nice to have rules that make big, big battles fun, but don't think that's the point of Apocalypse. The point is that people used to be happy with their 2000pt armies, and you were seeing a lot of gamers who had "finished" their armies years ago, and maybe bought 1 new squad every 6 months if that. Now you can carry on expanding your army forever, because you can field half a dozen land raiders, so why not buy them and paint them?
And now planetstrike! everyone go and buy defense structures and fast attack vehicles!
Don't get me wrong, all of these expansions are great fun, and excellently produced, but you know, I'm just as happy playing a quick 750pt game of standard 40k.
The one thing that does piss me off though, is they seem to have forgotten skirmish games (and 40k was originally a skirmish game!) because for those games you only need to spend 20quid and you've got yourself a warband.
Anyone know if other armies will get an update or new figures with this release?
Plastic Thunderhawk - His word on this after talking with others in GW, is that they will be making this right after the new release of Squats. But I think that when they figure out they can make good money on making it they will.
*shrugs* If you asked anyone at GW (headquaters or store) the same question about a plastic Baneblade, they would laugh themselves silly. It is just that technology outruns the imagination of quite a few people. Production costs for designs (virtual 3D models) and the molds (direct from virtual 3D model to automated mold production) have gone down significantly in the last couple of years. It really wouldn't suprise me at the least when/if a Thunderhawk shows up, if only as a means of testing new technology, they did something similar with the Baneblade.
I'm surprised you couldn't hear themselves snorting in their imitation of the human laugh.
I also love the idea of attack/defend missions with different FOCs. I remember playing them in the 3rd Ed. of 40k. Ok yes, they require a little fore-thought and cant really be just "pick-up" games like the missions in the main rulebook, but then again the same can be said of Apocolypse, and Cities of Death. In my experience, it's not that much effort to play these kind of games so I can't imagine Planetstrike being any more effort.
the valkyrie is allmost as big as a baneblade!
like bfg or aeronautica imperialis?
However, what concerns me is that this might put the unupdated codices further away from the new one's. If the rumours is true about the changed FO charts for attacker and defender my guess is that the attacker would have more fast and limited heavy, while the defender has the exact opposite (this seems logical to me, though I might be dead wrong). This would mean that these slots would play a larger role, thus putting armies that are lacking in those areas at a disadvantage.
Most armies have reliable heavy support, but some have very limited fast attack sections; tau has mostly support units that, though good, doesn't have the oomph! needed to be useful in large quantities.
Being a tyranid player myself, I of course want to point out our disadvantage (from reading here its quite obvious that people have a tendency to enlarge the problems their own army has, and Im no different :P). Tyranids suffer from, simply put, shitty fast attack. Raveners are fragile both in shooting and lose combat, Winged Warriors are overpriced and fragile and spore mines are a free kill point.
I dont know how flying ripper swarms would work out, but they might work, but the problem is also that, apart from forgeworld, there are no models. Gargoyles are actually a decent choice, but are expensive as hell in terms of actual money.
With that said, new terrain is always nice, anything to make the battlefield look more battlefield-y. The other models don't do anything for me though, I think there are enough space marines out there as it is and have always thought of the thunderhawk as a very ugly model with its blocky design and misplaced battle cannon.
I would love to hear what other people think about this :)
(Note that this is only the thoughts and opinions of a single individual (me) and if you prove me wrong I'll be the first to admit it)
I've personally been chomping at the bit over this expansion for a while.
And anyone who doesn't think a Thunderhawk would be a worthwhile endeavor is insane. SM's outsell all the other armies. I'd probably own several to transport my whole expanding company.
And someone was complaining about the terrain they sell and how no one owns it in their area. I don't get that either.
And demands for Xenos terrain - that on the other hand. I'm the only person I know who owns the Ork Barricades. Will the sales justify more Xenos terrain? That's on you the consumer.
As soon as the Bastion and Landing Pad appeared in pictures last year there were comments from GW staff that those items might be released for sale and now that appears to be coming true. From what I hear, look to August for even more 40K stuff.
Awesome!
I don't care if this isn't true, the thought of a plastic thunderhawk... bliss.
GW is shrinking in terms of hobby involvement, has all but cancelled sponsored events, and I seriously doubt if they even have the resources for the "studio" to organize and run such an event.
GW is going pure sales oriented. Must meet the Shareholders' expectations. Sad, isn't it?
Happen to have a link? Anything? Anything?
=P
Stiill, it's all good!
As for a plastic thunder Hawk this rumor has been floating around for about 15 years now. Ever since the first build your own thunder Hawk instructions appeared in Citadel Journal. after the success of the pewter kit. They decided to make any resin kit. for those of you who own the resin kit I don't need to tell you this for those of you who don't it comes down to this. The 250 pound kit is a top seller. I own two myself each one comes with a certificate of authenticity and their are a number. My own kit numbers are 252 and 559. So why would they sell it cheaper? I don't think in the plastic business but I know a few things about model making him. Plastic mold and cost around $5,000 and can only be used so many times. On top of that it would cost about $20,000 just in the development of the model. Resin is incredibly cheaper.
They have the means and desire to make the plastic kits, the success of the Fantasy and 40k terrain kits has determined that.
Plastic molds are worth more like $250,000, and go forever. Pewter molds burn out.
I have no idea if the Thunderhawk is true or not, but I do know the Baneblade and Stompa were disbelieved for forever, much as the Valkyrie was recently.
The bottom line is that resin is expensive for them to continue with. It warps a lot more than plastic and they lose money with every replacement they make (which happens more often than most people think) and once they invest in the plastic kits, all they're doing is raking in the money. Replacements from damaged parts wouldn't even scratch their bottom line. Why do you think they're so ready to send out entire replacement Baneblade kits if even one part is damaged? Plastic is cheap. Each kit costs them a few dollars in materials.
You seem to be thinking in "guy in a basement" manufacturing terms, in which $5000 is prohibitively expensive. GW's budget for creating new lines is more than most of their customers make in 10 years, on the low end.
Rimael
imp guard got the baneblade, then the orks got the stompa, why wouldn't they make a thunderhawk. , and after that I suspect an Eldar titan would be next, followed by a large tau flyer, and so on and so fourth.
why would they only make 2 superheavies and then call it done. if they were going to make a big vehicle for each race, what would they make for spacemarines, there is nothing else all they have is the thunderhawk.
Well, i'll be praying for plastic Chaos Flyers...
I love the 'my cousin's room-mate's uncle's boyfriend works in the janitorial department at GW and they laugh...". I mean seriously, if I had a dollar for every one of these assinine statements I'd have a third company of marines in my collection.
I'm betting that the thunderhawk will be the first 100+ dollar single model kit and it will sell like mad. I mean how many other people laid out the 240ish for the marine spear head (which was actually a deal when compared to the actual retail on the items individually)?
I have no doubt they can make them now, and imagine how well it would sell. Baneblades sold like crazy and that's just guard, not marines...
I see it as, our technology has gotten so much better, we should push it further to test the abilities of what we have, ya know?
If it's the one on p.81 that's rumoured to come out then I hate to disappoint you all but.... well, take a look at the Black Templar codex and you'll see.
Now if it were the Tau Orca, that would be Something!!!
Though I have to agree that a plastic TH kit would sell like mad. Heck I'd probilly buy two. Teachnically acording to the Heresy fluff CSM would get TH's in limited numbers also.
www.armorcast.com are still going and they make crystal formations etc and some interesting scenery.
also check out these guys at http://www.oldcrowmodels.co.uk/ in particular the links to Ainsty Products. although its normally hi-tech sci-fi stuff that you find, with a bit of modification/burying into the ground / filling with caved in areas etc you can make some interesting areas of the 41st millenium that arent a common sight
i'm personally quite lazy with terrain and any company that gives me a head start is a god-send :D
Just read this post about planetstrike. I also checked the examples of supposed new buildings. (Bastion, AA Turret, Barricades). When looking through the book i also noticed a landingpad (pg. 239, research station). This might be scratchbuild, but seems very much of an incident, if you consider the mentioned kit-release.
Grt. Pim
If GW is going to release an 'Expansion' every once in a while, they SHOULD make an update, re-balancing and refresher of the existing ruleset and codexes all in one package. If they'd like to ADD new advanced rules for attacker/defender games, urban scenario games or what have you, throw it in this release as well. Put one out every 12 to 18 months or so, with a new BRB every 5 years or so-cuz you know they're gonna do it anyway- and we're good.
5th Ed. is a hot mess early in it's release cycle. There is such a huge difference between the top tier armies and the rest of the pack, and such an overwhelming emphasis on close combat that it would benifit from a 'patch', as it were. But, true to GW style, they'll just keep piling on the new products, instead.
Wait and see how many White Dwarf issues are filled with 'the new Orks vs. the new Guard Planetstrike' articles, after it releases.
(Rant)
Ofcourse its all very good for that cosy little trio of Orks, Space Marines and Guard. Think about it, when was the last time you read a WD battle report NOT featuring one of those armies. And i'm not just going on about the Dark Eldar and Space Wolves either. So many codexes (Witch Hunters, Daemon Hunters, Necrons, Tyranids for example) have been rendered outmoded and totally outclassed by the onset of new codices and 5th edition.
Heaping on new expansions and releases isn't going to help. Why is it that the Imperium and Orks, who get enough pandering to already, are getting shiney new toys like Stompas and Baneblade variants, when Xenos (sans Orks) , the Inquisition and Chaos are left out in the cold.
The only light at the end of tunnel is that when GW have got this sillyness out of the way they can move on to the kind of fair and balanced work we need done.
(/Rant)
You're quite right about the codices of other armies being outmoded by the new edition and new codices, but this is a situation that's been going on since 2nd edition. When you have the number of codices and army books GW pumps out to update, it's simply not feasible to do them all (even in a "patch" format) at one time. And it's back to sales again. After sales on the new SM and IG lines simmer down, we're likely to see the remainder of the flock get updates, not before.
Thats pretty much like saying "Were selling a car without wheels. Adding wheels to it would increase sales greatly. We wont add wheels until it starts selling better."
The army itself does have problems, but I don't think the same ones people talk about. The list, even at 15-odd years old, still works - they're very good at what they do, and in the hands of a skilled player are nigh-unbeatable. However, their style of play is very narrow which makes them less interesting to collect. Also, their style makes it difficult to really do anything with Dark Eldar as a concept. There's very little scope for heavy or super-heavy units in what is supposed to be a light raider-type list, and all other avenues are more-or-less covered in the current Codex. If you want heavier units, you may as well be playing Eldar or even Tau.
The way I understand it is that any future Dark Eldar re-release is going to be a much bigger re-vamp than we've seen for Orks, Marines or Guard. It will involve an almost complete overhaul of the current list to give players more options for creating armies while still maintaining their unique style. I daresay, their units may even be completely different to what the Dark Eldar have now.
How many Ork players did you know BEFORE the new Ork Codex released? I'll tell you how many I knew- One.
After the release of the new 'dex they're everywhere. Why?
Because GW took a Xenos army that, like ALL the Xenos armies prior to 'the new Orks', were pretty much just designed to be something for Space Marines to shoot at.
None of the 3rd and 4th edition Xenos codexes were overpowered in the way the new Ork 'dex is. Clever players could win with Necrons. or Tau, or Dark Eldar or the old Ork codex, but were not practically guaranteed a win like the Orks are now. Playing against Orks in 5th ed. is friggin' ridiculous!
And then the bandwagon started rolling, and now Ork armies are everywhere. Me, I believe GW boosted the Orks because a player has to purchase so many to build an army. 100 to 150 figures, plus vehicles and extras. That's a lot of kits. Open any White Dwarf from the past few months and you'll see that the Ork release has greatly overshadowed the Space Marine release- the Orks have been getting the lion's share of attention for like a year now- because GW will make more money off an Ork player than, say, a Tau player. Which I WAS until a month or so ago. I've gotten sick of getting stomped out since the 'run rule' and new focus on CC has made it impossible to compete for the Tau, and I'm sick of my army not even showing up in a background of a picture in any GW publications. I imagine it's the same for many of the 'forgotten army' players out there. I'm also sick of seeing Nob Biker lists, and Double Demon Price with Lash of Submission lists- but the Chaos Codex has ALWAYS been overpowered. It's like tradition.
I don't know why GW hasn't even commented on the current disparity, but I'm getting pissed off. Here's my plan, as horrible as it may be-
The Tau are going in the foam. Goodbye, underpowered losers with NO CC ability (toughness 3, Ld. 7 Kroot are NOT CC capability, people).
When the new Imperial Guard Codex releases, I will illegally download it and review it. That's right, you heard me. GW ain't gettin' no mo' of my money right now.
Following my review of the Guard, I will compare it's ability to create the cheesiest, most beardy army imaginable. In fact, that's my plan. Whatever army has the power to dominate-EXCEPT Orks or Chaos, as I hate them, is what I'll build- just to piss people off. So I hope the Guard 'dex rocks. And when my 'impossible to beat' army stomps out all opponents, I'll smile and say "My army isn't overpowered, it can be beaten by a clever player. Just the other day I lost a game. No one saw it, but it happened. OK, it didn't happen-but my army is perfectly legal! GW designed and playtested it!"
Looking foward to it.
I know the list (6 d-fish, hammerheads list), and the story. Let's not lose sight of the fact he won based on Painting and comp. score. Also, scenarios are played at tournaments, not your basic missions that are rolled up, like a pickup game played at your local GW store. That army list he ran gives up 3 KP a transport, so that's 18 KP just with his troop choices! 2 gundrones- 1 KP, Transport- 1 KP, 6 firewarriors- 1 KP.
I know everyone wants to justify the current unbalanced state of 40k, or act like the game is fine, but I stand by my original claim that 5th Ed. is a mess. Are myself and AhrimanLord the only ones that see it. Ork players are naturally defensive, claiming left and right that they're codex is fair and balanced, but really now, look at the top 25 armies at ANY GT in the last year and try again. It usually reads Orks, Orks Orks, Chaos(the double lash list), Orks, Orks, Chaos, etc. You know it does, so why try to act differently? I'm not mad at people who are suddenly Ork players, trying to justify their switch with annoying logic (yeah, 1 Tau player in like forever has the luckiest day of his life- that's proof that the Tau are competetive), I'm mad at GW for 1st creating this mess, then denying it exists, then not only not doing anything to change it, but piling on the expansions without a nod to the 'lower tier' armies.
what about Inquisition players-both flavors, what about the Necrons, who got nerfed in 5th? Where's the love for the Eldar players, dark and regular? How about fixing the Biovore rules for the rare 'Nid player who loves them?
Nah, let's release a new expansion that no one will play. All those Cities of Death books look lonely on the shelves.
Lucky (in your eyes) or not, he still won. I'm sure it has nothing to do with your lack of talent using Tau:
SinSynn
"a Tau player. Which I WAS until a month or so ago. I've gotten sick of getting stomped out since the 'run rule' and new focus on CC has made it impossible to compete for the Tau"
Ahh the internet. Where the lost and lonely whine for attention.
Sorry you're not as good as someone else. Maybe try a new game?