DISQUS

Eyespy · 10 months ago

For me, I think that an astropath and a Master of the Fleet will be must haves (depending on points costs). Having your troops turn up on a 3+ in turn 2, and his on a 5+ is a staggering advantage, especially with a guard army with many heavy, long range weapons weapons to bring down the enemy as they stagger into the fight. It also means that even in turn 6, he still only got a 2/3 chance of his troops appearing.

I have a feeling Veterans will be platoon upgrades rather than seperate purchases but thats pure supposition.

Stormtroopers in a Valkerie are too much fun not to take.

With 4pt guardsmen, I think Penal platoons will just clutter up the table. They could make good sacrifice squads in a pinch, but why bother? Throw a 40 pt squad at the enemy to tempt their charge, and shoot whatever comes out the other side.
Agree with your HS choices, and will probably have three of everything before too long.

I only hope they help us out with kill points. One per platoon is hoping for too much maybe, but a boy can dream.

BrotherAtrox · 10 months ago

I definitely agree with your point about the Penal soldiers. 40pts. is a small price to pay to soak up an enemy assault. :D

Eyespy · 10 months ago

I'm tempted to put together a list with three full platoons of guard infantry. That's 165 basic troopers, complete with 18 heavy and special weapons for Between 750 and 900 points (wild guess). That will fill a table comfortable enough to dissuade deep striking into your zone, and preventing Space wolf/ Ork elites/whatever popping up behind you (simply no room).

It would be tough to beat in a 1000 pt game where your opponent might have two or three squads and a HS for the same points, and you can keep adding heavies and elites as the games points increases.

The down side is having to paint 165 infantry without succumbing to depression.

jwolf_bols · 10 months ago

Penal troops, to my understanding, are not conscripts, they're more like genericized Last Chancers. They are some sort of new infantry choice with the Stubborn USR. I'm using the Asault Platoons to trow at my opponents in my zone, as I want defending troops to die in one turn, not hang around. The Penal troopers might stick around, we'll see.
And I don't really care about kill points - I've been playing with a huge number of kill points for a long time now, so dropping from 25 to 15 would just be confusing.

Ridicule · 10 months ago

Interesting list. I was sure you were gonna go for an Executioner in the HS slot but the Eradicator is a good choice. I don't think I'll be able to keep my hands off the new Exterminator though, but it better be cheap to be worth it =)

I love how your Heavy Weapon Squads are exactly like mine in my current list. So I can totally relate to the choice.

Not with you on the medusa though, I'd rather go for the Demolisher but of course, on the other hand it's gonna be more expensive.

I must say you sparked my interest in putting together a dreamlist... think I'll get to it this afternoon =)

klemanius · 10 months ago

cheap ass 40 strong penal platoons have been a must for me when combined with Cloe order drilling into combat within banner range and an independent commy they will practically never break and beat charging death koptas in 3 turns with enough left over to be a good speed bump for a turn or 2. they do clutter up the place so can be used to lock down one side of the table when properly supported. I personally would love Valkyries to be a standard transport choice, so I can mount up a platoon of guard and do the whole air cav thing. At a guess, with the point reduction for standard guard they should just about bring my army back to 2000pts. perhapse enough left over for a pair of colossus (colossi? whats the plural?)

Admiral Halsey · 10 months ago

Just a note, but alas I think both Independent Commissars, and close order drill will not be in the new codex.

If we can still take 40 strong conscript mobs is another question alltogether.

whoopwhoop · 10 months ago

1. Tallarn without rough riders - shame on you!
2. Needs more sentinels. It ALWAYS needs more sentinels. They're like the skinks of 40k.

jwolf_bols · 10 months ago

1. I don't like Rough Riders, and Rough Riders are far and away the worst Fast Attack choice we have in the current Codex, and look to be in similar trouble in the new Codex. I play my Tallarn with an emphasis on Infiltrating and Outflanking, neither of which Rough Riders can do, so they don't fit my playstyle. I have been considering the Forgeworld Tallarn Rough Riders for a long time, though, so I'll probably grab some of those if El'Rahem makes them troops or command add-ons or something.
2. I have a bunch of Sentinels, closed and open topped. I may use a Lascannon Heavy Sentinels sometimes, but the new tanks are so fun that I have to play them. Remember that Tallarn have a pretty storied tank tradition as well. I know there are no Sentinels in this dream list, but since I never end up without one in a list, I'm sure they will end up in there. But dreaming is more about new toys. :)

Eyespy · 10 months ago

I have to agree with you on Rough Riders.

I converted and painted a full squad of Rough Riders on Fantasy Cold Ones, They came out as one of the best paint jobs I have ever done.

Watching them get smashed to pieces before being able to charge every game was heartbreaking, so now they live safley on my shelf.

TSINI · 10 months ago

hey Jwolf, you're obviously swinging from the rafters with excitement as am i, waiting till may 2nd is going to be hard!!

where did you hear that the heavy weapon platoons would be troop choices? this fills me with great excitement as i already have loads of these squads together.

i've been putting together a new IG army for the past 3 years (buying over £200 GW and £200 Forgeworld is a big mistake when you're too busy to paint it all)

i just hope theres enough wiggle room in the modifications to the force to still give that sense of individuality that the guard is so famous for. (i'm dreading the "ultramarine" aproach of the last SM codex where GW just put out a "Cadian" codex without covering the other well established armies like the ferral zero armour armies, or the mechanised armies / or in fact allow you to get accross subtle differences such as well disciplined (mordian) troops or disorderly hatred filled troops)

also, i'd be suprised if you could get all those tanks into a 2000 pt army, as a rule of a thumb leman russ' are 180pt a piece without upgrades, so just on the 2 lemans at 180 each, plus the medusa at (currently) 130(155 enclosed) and the hellhounds (85pts) and the devildog (i invisage around 85 again)

is 745(ishy-ish) points on vehicles alone.

with the current codex, just fielding my HQ and troops costs around 600pts (which will hopefully decrease with the troop point drop) but even at 500pts

the HQ and vehicles come to 1311, leaving 689 pts

which sounds a lot, but assuming you want more than 3 infantry squads, a chimera, a command section and a command squad plus 6 tanks, when you add heavy weapon squads, valkyries and superbad stormtroopers, its going to be tough.

still i've surprised myself with the amount of tanks you CAN field in a guard army, but i can't be bothered to delete my maths, as it shows the tanks vs scoring units problem with IG (remember that a scoring unit of basic guardsmen won't be able to hold an objective alone against ANY nearby enemy lol)

anyway, some great musings here jwolf!

faolan_conall · 10 months ago

Must agree with a previous comment or two - needs RR and Sentinels. You're TALLARN for the love of all that's unholy! Get out your camels and your Sentinels, and more Chimeras while you're at it!

Bulwark · 10 months ago

The only weak spot I see if the lack of heavy hitting anti-tank. You use to run a large number of lascannons. Now you are down to 3; the str 10 Medusa can help, but scattering ordinance is hit or miss when it comes to that (no pun intended).
How will you handle the 3x landraider, or even a tank heavy guard list? I could only expect the veterans to last one turn in either situation.

jwolf_bols · 10 months ago

Unitl last month I ran 1 Lascannon total, depending on Ordnance and Meltaguns for AT work (except in Heavy Tournaments, but that's a different kind of list). The Devildog has a meltacannon, and I have roughly the same volume of Meltagun fire that I've been deploying. I think I'm good on AT, but we'll have to see.

RealGenius · 10 months ago

Only one Valkyrie?

Wagner is rolling over in his grave.

CLK · 10 months ago

the more I think about it, the more I'm liking the idea of a chimera full of Ogryn (if that's still allowable) followed up by valkyries coming in from reserve. Ogryn trundle up the board with tanks for support (and AV14 side armour blockers), then the valkyries scream in off the table edge 24", stormtroopers disembark (losing one or two to parachutes), catch whoever's out of cover with AP3 rapid firing (don't forget the 2 plasmaguns). Stormtroopers take out hard targets, Ogryn eat up soft ones, or find some AV10 rear tanks to cut up. Otherwise the following turn the valkyrie(s) can unload what'll likely be a lascannon and 2 krak missiles each into rear armour.

RealGenius · 10 months ago

The nice thing is that it looks like the Guard Codex will let you do a lot of different types of builds (aircav, tank heavy, footsloggers) that all look decent.

W_E · 10 months ago

Nice dream list you put together jwolf, anyway, on to the discussion. In your opinion, What do you think about Valkyrie/Gunship Heavy lists, aka, IG Flaying Circus? How do you think they will fare?

Sure enough it may be too early to tell as there are many unknown variables and they could be anything from not even viable (if GW pulls some terrible 0-1 like thing), to the Royal Air Force abusive list (see Bretonnians lead by a Lord on a Pegasus) or everything in between, but as you just proved, we can always dream, and I have been dreaming since the first time I saw a Vulture, it was that very model that got me into the Guard in the first place. So, Whats your take on IG that comes From the Sky?

H · 10 months ago

I think the difficulty in relying on multiple Valkyries coming in from reserves is in making sure that they all come in on the same turn. You'd need to load up on as many Astropaths as possible so that they don't end up scattered to the winds and let the enemy focus fire. The downside of that is that your Flying Circus will likely come in turn 2, and that the higher points cost of mechanizing using Valks vs Chimera means that you're extremely fragile to enemy fire.

I'm still looking at Flying Circus, but am also assembling a Blood Pact force to be an alternate, more traditional IG regiment just in case.

jwolf_bols · 10 months ago

I know I'll have to try the airborne approach at least a few times. Something like all Valkyries, Vendettas, and Armored Sentinels would be fun to play around with.

I think it will be a blast and play nothing like the Guard armies we've played before, which will be a nice change and take practice to get it right.

FerociousBeast · 10 months ago

Hate to sound a sour note, but the Heavy Platoon/Assault Platoon rumor is dated at the moment. Current warseer rumor is that there is one kind of platoon, and within that platoon you can have:
- 2-5 regular squads
- 0-3 heavy squads
- 0-2 assault squads
- 0-1 conscript squad

zenjah · 10 months ago

If you hadn't called it a sour note, it wouldn't be. =p

Admiral Halsey · 10 months ago

It amuses me that you are refuting an old rumor with a new rumor, while at the same time remembering to call them rumors.

We are still quite some time from our beloved production date, and I'm sure some things are fixed in stone, but I'd be willing to be there will still be some - 'NO! The IG Platoons work like -this- now' posts on Warseer yet.

Lest we forget the amusing but pointless rumor of conscript platoons with Commissars and heavybolters who shot the (fearless) conscripts if they broke.

Not saying that the current incarnation of the rumor can't be the final truth, just that trolling the rumor posts requires a truckload of salt.

Sethe · 10 months ago

Does anyone think there will be a way to take Stormtroopers as Troops? I really wouldn't care what it costs, I just think it would be loads of fun to run a complete mech list with stormtroopers as your troops in valkaries.

John · 10 months ago

itll probably just a matter of taking Special Character X. And yeah its gonna be awesome.

Errien Teunisse · 10 months ago

How would i fight against Jwolfs army with mine?

Well, based on rumours and Guesstimation i would have this to fight against him with my Krieg.

Command Squad with Fleet officer and Artillery Observer- 100

10 Stormies with 2 meltas- 130

Infantry Platoon with Command squad (40) 3 Infantry squads with Heavy flamers and flamers (60 each) and 2 Heavy Weapons teams with Autocannons (75 each)
total- 370

Infantry Platoon with Command squad (40) 2 Infantry squads with Heavy flamers and flamers (60 each) and 2 Heavy Weapons teams with Autocannons (75 each)
total- 310

2x Banewolfs (130 each)
-total- 260

3x Leman Russ battle Tanks with 2 Heavy bolters and a lascannon (190 each)
total- 570

Collossus (130)

Manticore (130)

Total- 2000
50 Advancing Guardsmen, 9 Heavy Weapons Teams with Autocannons, 3 Command Squads, 10 Stormies, 3 Russes, 1 Collossus and 1 manticore.

Now it seems we are using 2 different rumoured lists so ill have to go for the best here.

Now, my army has abit more armoured superiority in the form of 3 Leman Russ Battle tanks, our Infantry units all have enough flamers to remove each other from the planet so what i would do is advance my army behind my advancing vehicles. I would need force you to engage so i could then strike with a counterattack.

I would try and hide the Collossus and Manticore in an area surrounded by the Heavy Weapons Teams to ward off fast attackers like the Stormies in Valkyrie.

my priority 1 target would probably be me trying to drop a manticore's storm eagle missile onto your Leman Russ Eradicator since that thing will be quite powerful against all non MEQ armies.

it is difficult to say what will happen since i dont know the terrain or anything else about the mission. this is far too abstract to really make any judgements.

All i think is that while i may have the armoured advantage, your infantry is abit better than mine (alot of that is due to us using different rumours, though.)

Errien Teunisse · 10 months ago

Sorry, i meant 12 Heavy weapons teams, not 9

Matthew Rider · 9 months ago

My dream list "Starship Troopers" list, (And this contains not much tactical thought lol,) would be:-

Heroic Senior Officer Carl
Power weapon, Bolt pistol, Refractor Field, Commissar Lord, Astropath, Fleet Master, Orbital bombardment dude, Mortor crew, Master Vox

3 Lascannon teams

Junior Officer Rico
Power weapon, Plasma pistol, 3 Flamers, Vox

Squad One
Grenade Launcher, Vox

Squad Two
Flamer, Frags, Vox

Junior Officer Rachneaz
Power fist, Meltagun, Plasmagun, Vox

Squad One
Grenade Launcher, Vox

Squad Two
Flamer, Frags, Vox

3 Sentinels (Multi Lasers)

Vendetta (I believe its the gunship variant of the Valkyrie)

Leman Russ Executioner
Leman Russ Battle Tank

random · 10 months ago

Jwolf again! you shamed the BoLS in her proud tratdition of releasing only articles which actually matters. Pleas go in a forum with your 40k ARMY LIST: Imperial Guard Dreams, Round 1 an start a Thread , this would bei a muchmore suiteabel place.

Ridicule · 10 months ago

Take a chill pill.

anon · 10 months ago

You are sixsystems.

Catzilla · 10 months ago

Valium, anyone? ;D