This army makes no sense from a synergistic or mechanics perspective. How are you going to counter mechanized Eldar or especially another mechanized imperial guard army. A proper mechanized IG army is not only going to have more vehicles, but more heavy weapons, greater anti-infantry and anti-tank power and more range.
Vet's without chimera's like that are nothing more than fire magnets, and the lack of long range anti-tank means you are depriving yourself of one of the IG's greatest assets.
weeble1000
· 5 months ago
I've found that meltas on a mobile vet squad are pretty good at taking out enemy armor, but I agree that the list is a little light on AT. I've found missile launchers and krak grenades to be rather unreliable at putting down vehicles, so it might be a good idea to work a couple of autocannons into the list. While not a perfect AT choice, they would help pop transports.
SandWyrm
· 5 months ago
Um, it's not a little light on the AT. It has almost no AT at all. A fully mechanized IG list would table this army within 3 turns. This list needs at least THREE Chimera Vet Squads with Meltas for high AV targets, backed up by some long range AT firepower for taking out enemy transports.
Aventine
· 5 months ago
Maybe if you were playing it. I haven't really had any trouble. I guess I'm just a better general than you.
Zealot
· 5 months ago
rrrrrip. damn!
Ridicule
· 5 months ago
Ever since the first rumours about the new codex popped up I started tweaking my IG. So when the codex was finally out my army was more or less already adapted for it.
I would like to voice a complaint over the Penal Legions, such a cool unit, especially fluff-vice. But the random specialization for every game kills the fun of converting and creating a theme around your every squad and tank. I can't equip them with large blades as they might become gunslingers etc. It's such a shame.
Banjo
· 5 months ago
Which is why you load them up with everything... Guns, knives and grenades!! Can't go wrong with a truckload of extra kit.
Ridicule
· 5 months ago
Hehe, good argument, however I still prefer to spec squads very accordingly to the general wysiwyg "rule".
Also, not knowing what a unit will be good at until just before deployment...it doesn't sit well with me. I'm a man-with-a-plan kinda man ^^ I don't get why the player can't simply chose what skills the squad will have. Just like with Stormtroopers.
JL
· 5 months ago
This army sounds a lot of fun to play. I have a question about combined infantry squads.
How many men is to many?
I'm thinking about cramming together 3 squads each with auto cannons and then hunker them in a building/ objective. But a 30 man squad seems a bit much. Has anyone else tried a LARGE combined squad?
Also has anyone used a Manticore Missile Tank. No one has been talking about them when discussing IG tank tactics. Are they worth it Cause they sound fun!
GW
· 5 months ago
Combined squads seem as though they would be effective, I think though that a squad of 30 maybe too much. You have to consider things like size of area terrian, and what if they get hit by a template weapon?
Manticores are awesome, use one in my army, they can be truly devastating when all three shots launch, Ive, taken out a whole war walker squadron in the first turn. I have not had a game yet where it has failed me.
weeble1000
· 5 months ago
I used to run conscripts, mostly because I love my models, but now I run a platoon with 5 infantry squads that I combine for annihilation games. I've played plenty of games with a 50 man squad, either of conscripts or a combined infantry squad. A squad that big can be cumbersome, but it can also be effective if used well.
50 guardsmen make a nice tarpit. Depending on what hits it, 50 guardsmen can certainly be slaughtered in a single assault phase, but on a good day you can get two turns out of them if there's a commissar in the unit. An assaulting walker will hack them down with impunity, although it'll take a while, which could be useful.
You can also use a large combined squad to control the game board a bit. If you've got 1st turn in Dawn of War, you can guarantee that your opponent will be smashed against his table edge, and you can also severely limit the options for a deepstrike heavy army, like demons.
50 guardsmen also make excellent use of First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire, and you can, if you want, keep your officer far from harm's way by stringing a couple of guardsmen from the unit back through your lines.
At the very least, you can be fairly certain that your opponent will have to deal with the unit in some way before much else happens. All in all, I don't think a large combined squad will get it's points back very often. However, in an annihilation game, I think it's worth while to turn five kill points into one kill point.
Javin
· 5 months ago
Nice paint Job.
fade_74
· 5 months ago
Looks like a really decent list. I have actually put less infantry in my new IG list also. I am slowly trying to use almost everything in the codex to try and get a better feel for the new way things fit together. The Demolisher is a great old standby but I really like the executioner. It really blows through Marines and terminators. I can't wait for the new artillery models to come out so I can try the medusa. The way the banewolf is used in this list (in numbers) seems like quite a good idea. I had sort of blown it off. Now I am gonna have to give it a second look.
Hogan's Heroes
· 5 months ago
Looks like a good list. My only worry would be not enough long-range anti-tank firepower. I see one lascannon, and although I'm aware that those melta vets are pretty good at taking down tanks, I wouldn't count on a good reserves/outflank roll without an astropath. I'd expect mech-heavy lists to give you a hard time.
----------------------------
A bit off topic, but I heard this at the bar last night:
Farrah Fawcett dies and goes to heaven. St. Peter tells her, "Farrah, you've been such an angel your whole life; before we let you in, we will grant you one wish."
Farrah responds, "I want all the children in the world to be safe."
Boom: Michael Jackson dies.
The Mike
· 5 months ago
I had to restructure HQ and the special and heavy weapons teams to distributed to the platoons, the rough riders I had are now illegal since now they can't have las-rifles, other than that, the transition was smooth.
CommissarHybrid
· 5 months ago
I didnt like that having a Heavy Weapon in an Infantry Squad now made it feel like a 9 man squad (particularly in CC). So I went ahead and took all of my AC and put them into HW squads. Which is good. It encourages me to move my infantry forward more often than I was before. So thats good. Also, the orders change was huge for me. I used to try and make each team self contained with a vet Sergeant and COD for better leadership and just used officers to gather up fleeing infantry with ID. Now I move my infantry forward in two waves. Soldiers and then Officers all charging forward together instead of having the officers sit around and wait for fleeing units to make it back to the original gunline.
Otherwise. Not much changed for me. Just a lot of options that I would have loved to take advantage of a year ago, but gain nothing from now. Without doubling my IG shopping list.
DM294
· 5 months ago
That's an interesting list! Wait, when you say the Psykers and Vets are zooming around blasting things on the flanks, you do mean that they disembark then shoot, right?
I was thinking of flying around a buncha psyker battle squads with a primaris psyker, crapping up people's leadership and destroying them with the lightning blast, or pinning them with sniper teams. Then have an inquisitor for a culexus assassin to gain benefit from the immense amount of psykers nearby. Then I realized my psychic powers can't work unless I disembark from the valkyries...
Illiterate Scrub
· 5 months ago
A shame, because the old FW model really suggests the possibility of 'DRIVE-BY PSYKER DOORGUNNERS'.
Rogue_Pom
· 5 months ago
Second the great painting comment.
Any chance of more shots of the Valk - ie different profile shots etc.
crazyredpraetorian
· 5 months ago
I remember playing this list @ Battle Forge Games or atleast one very close to it. You had Marbo in it for that tournament. That was a bloody @$$ game.
Matthew_Rider
· 5 months ago
Sorry but I didn't think you could take veterans on their own- I thought they had to be apart of an Infantry Platoon?
weeble1000
· 5 months ago
You can take vet squads on their own, as well as penal squads. Infantry squads, heavy weapon squads, special weapon squads, platoon command squads, and conscript squads have to be part of an infantry platoon. That's at least what I remember without my codex in front of me.
Savark
· 5 months ago
Speaking of the macharius crusade, how do you guys use the kanak models, or are they forever shelved
Chaosgerbil
· 5 months ago
Throw the powerfist on the vets with the meltas, since they will be up close more.
Dan
· 5 months ago
Banewolf with heavy flamer?
The combo that came out the worst in your own assessment of fast tank weapons due to opportunities for wound allocation?
What happened to your top choices? banewolf w/multimelta and hellhound w/multimelta?
Aventine
· 5 months ago
That was jwolfs assessment. I disagree. The Fly Lords do not operate as one entity, we are individuals. Personally I find the extra hits make up for the lack of being able to pick out individual models. Usually the squadron just kills everything anyway. I think jwolfs choice was more based on individual tanks rather than squadrons.
weeble1000
· 5 months ago
My switch to the new codex was initially pretty bland. I think I fielded essentially the same army with handfull of extra points. Since then I've redesigned my IG army and added in plenty of the new stuff.
I run an infantry heavy list, but the new codex has encouraged me to add in more transports. From no transports I've gone to a valk, vendetta, and three chimeras. I've also taken out a lot of my heavy weapons, almost every squad had one, and this has helped to keep my army mobile, making it a very fun, very aggressive list to play.
I haven't run into any problems yet, but without the comfort of heavy weapon squads, my list feels a little light on AT. I've got a vet squad with three meltas, a platoon command squad with 4 meltas, the vendetta, a LRBT w/ lascannon, a LRDemolisher w/ lascannon, and two infantry squads with autocannons. I've also got Straken and I suppose he could wreck a vehicle if need be. However, I've got 7 other infantry squads, a second platoon command, and another vet squad, so what AT I have has had an easy time staying task-oriented.
The new codex has certainly changed the way I play the guard, but it's given the faction a great deal of flexibility without really taking anything away. I could still field my 4th ed army almost unchanged if I wanted to.
faultie
· 5 months ago
I like the revamp. Penal Legions are, I think, one of the more interesting troops choices in the book. Vets as Troops are really nice too.
Tornik
· 5 months ago
A really nice paint job on the Valkyrie, Aventine. Any chance that you're willing to share how you painted up the engines?
Base coat chaos black Heavy dry brush tin bitz Lighter dry brush chain mail Heavy wash devlan mud (for the grime) lighter wash Badab black (for the dirt)
Then wash the fuel injectors red, so they look hot but not painted that way.
Aventine
· 5 months ago
The engines are boltgun metal washed with devlan mud, the red cables are mechrite with devlan.
Curious painter
· 5 months ago
I love the look of your valk, I was just wondering, how did you do the tint on those windows? Is it just a black wash or something more complex?
Aventine
· 5 months ago
They aren't tinted at all, just clear. Must be the angle.
RexScarlet
· 5 months ago
Wow, all that equipment and support spent on criminals. That is the most expensive Penal Legion ever!
Nice min/max though I must say.
My Penal Legion; is dropped behind enemy lines with a knife, and an exploding collar of course, and must scrounge equipment.
So, if I put "three" of the same squads in a list, does that count as a theme?
My "Scout" themed SM List;
3x Scout squads (10 men) 3x Land Raiders 3x Land Speeder Squadrons (3 each= 9 total) 3x Venerable Dread etc.
Aventine
· 5 months ago
Everyone has different opinions on theme, there is no reason to be rude about it. I actually have quite a bit of background written up for this army, though I doubt you'd care to read it.
Justen
· 5 months ago
Can Veterans squad Sergeants take powerfists? I thought it was only power weapons(correct me if I'm wrong, I totally might).
Farsight
· 5 months ago
Vets sergeants can take power fist but storm trooper's still can't. I honestly don't see why they included storm troopers in the book. You can take a vet squad with carapace, more special weapons, special characters and come out with a squad that acts the same and counts as scoring. Yes I know they have ap 3 but to me that doesn't cut it.
ben
· 5 months ago
What else can deep strike of its own accord?
I can get storm troopers places I can't dream about with the vets.
anon
· 5 months ago
The other thing to consider with storm troops is the special missions rules which can be quite useful but the points cost is still pretty high.
All Comments
Vet's without chimera's like that are nothing more than fire magnets, and the lack of long range anti-tank means you are depriving yourself of one of the IG's greatest assets.
I would like to voice a complaint over the Penal Legions, such a cool unit, especially fluff-vice. But the random specialization for every game kills the fun of converting and creating a theme around your every squad and tank. I can't equip them with large blades as they might become gunslingers etc. It's such a shame.
Also, not knowing what a unit will be good at until just before deployment...it doesn't sit well with me. I'm a man-with-a-plan kinda man ^^ I don't get why the player can't simply chose what skills the squad will have. Just like with Stormtroopers.
How many men is to many?
I'm thinking about cramming together 3 squads each with auto cannons and then hunker them in a building/ objective. But a 30 man squad seems a bit much. Has anyone else tried a LARGE combined squad?
Also has anyone used a Manticore Missile Tank. No one has been talking about them when discussing IG tank tactics. Are they worth it Cause they sound fun!
Manticores are awesome, use one in my army, they can be truly devastating when all three shots launch, Ive, taken out a whole war walker squadron in the first turn. I have not had a game yet where it has failed me.
50 guardsmen make a nice tarpit. Depending on what hits it, 50 guardsmen can certainly be slaughtered in a single assault phase, but on a good day you can get two turns out of them if there's a commissar in the unit. An assaulting walker will hack them down with impunity, although it'll take a while, which could be useful.
You can also use a large combined squad to control the game board a bit. If you've got 1st turn in Dawn of War, you can guarantee that your opponent will be smashed against his table edge, and you can also severely limit the options for a deepstrike heavy army, like demons.
50 guardsmen also make excellent use of First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire, and you can, if you want, keep your officer far from harm's way by stringing a couple of guardsmen from the unit back through your lines.
At the very least, you can be fairly certain that your opponent will have to deal with the unit in some way before much else happens. All in all, I don't think a large combined squad will get it's points back very often. However, in an annihilation game, I think it's worth while to turn five kill points into one kill point.
----------------------------
A bit off topic, but I heard this at the bar last night:
Farrah Fawcett dies and goes to heaven. St. Peter tells her, "Farrah, you've been such an angel your whole life; before we let you in, we will grant you one wish."
Farrah responds, "I want all the children in the world to be safe."
Boom: Michael Jackson dies.
Otherwise. Not much changed for me. Just a lot of options that I would have loved to take advantage of a year ago, but gain nothing from now. Without doubling my IG shopping list.
I was thinking of flying around a buncha psyker battle squads with a primaris psyker, crapping up people's leadership and destroying them with the lightning blast, or pinning them with sniper teams. Then have an inquisitor for a culexus assassin to gain benefit from the immense amount of psykers nearby. Then I realized my psychic powers can't work unless I disembark from the valkyries...
Any chance of more shots of the Valk - ie different profile shots etc.
The combo that came out the worst in your own assessment of fast tank weapons due to opportunities for wound allocation?
What happened to your top choices? banewolf w/multimelta and hellhound w/multimelta?
I run an infantry heavy list, but the new codex has encouraged me to add in more transports. From no transports I've gone to a valk, vendetta, and three chimeras. I've also taken out a lot of my heavy weapons, almost every squad had one, and this has helped to keep my army mobile, making it a very fun, very aggressive list to play.
I haven't run into any problems yet, but without the comfort of heavy weapon squads, my list feels a little light on AT. I've got a vet squad with three meltas, a platoon command squad with 4 meltas, the vendetta, a LRBT w/ lascannon, a LRDemolisher w/ lascannon, and two infantry squads with autocannons. I've also got Straken and I suppose he could wreck a vehicle if need be. However, I've got 7 other infantry squads, a second platoon command, and another vet squad, so what AT I have has had an easy time staying task-oriented.
The new codex has certainly changed the way I play the guard, but it's given the faction a great deal of flexibility without really taking anything away. I could still field my 4th ed army almost unchanged if I wanted to.
I do it as follows:
Base coat chaos black
Heavy dry brush tin bitz
Lighter dry brush chain mail
Heavy wash devlan mud (for the grime)
lighter wash Badab black (for the dirt)
Then wash the fuel injectors red, so they look hot but not painted that way.
Nice min/max though I must say.
My Penal Legion; is dropped behind enemy lines with a knife, and an exploding collar of course, and must scrounge equipment.
So, if I put "three" of the same squads in a list, does that count as a theme?
My "Scout" themed SM List;
3x Scout squads (10 men)
3x Land Raiders
3x Land Speeder Squadrons (3 each= 9 total)
3x Venerable Dread
etc.
I can get storm troopers places I can't dream about with the vets.