Bell of Lost Souls - Latest Comments in 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Erasmus_of_Baal — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 17:49:47 -0000

Psychology is not half the battle; psychology IS the battle. If you can keep your opponent fearfully cowering in his own deployment zone in almost the entire game, you have already won. Thus, BA become more powerful as their Reserves options are far more versatile, and a player not accustomed to this will either spread out and be crushed or else hide in fear of being crushed.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

idene — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 01:15:03 -0000

i haven't played against anyone besides my best friend, and brother in law, and that's pretty much what we do. pop open a couple sodas, talk, stories, etc, and my order is lose/draw... huh, i don't think i ever won a game. :\

but yeah, we don't play tournaments, and it's more for having fun and staying up until 1 am doing a four hour game or so. :3

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

SM — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:28:17 -0000

Eh, they were tournament players, of course they took advantage of you. At least you didn't have to face the Fabius Bile chaos spam.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

DeathJester — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 06:43:37 -0000

Our GW store has a copy of each codex, but these are usually being looked at by people looking to buy or demo's.
I have set lists of 500, 1000, 1500, 1750, 2000, and 2500 pts. I only build generic lists, not lists based on what my opponent is fielding and their not cheese/beard based.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

DeathJester — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 06:37:13 -0000

I always explain what each dice colour represents before throwing the dice. If someone just threw a set of coloured dice and then told me what they were, i would make them re-roll!

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

SinSynn — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:11:45 -0000

I learned my lesson on this one. I don't play anyone who could be considered a 'kid' (it's more of an attitude thing than an actual age thing. Some 16 year olds are pretty smart, and will give you a hell of a game. Some, not so much), and definately not 'little kids'.
Their armies are always a mess, they never have lists and generally have no idea how the rules work. Forget about tape measures and dice......
Then when they get it together enough to actually start the game you have to be patient and kind enough not to absolutely slaughter them because they have absolutely no clue as to what 'strategy' is.
I just can't deal any more, so I quit gaming with them. I've really tried to be the nice guy who tutors them during their first few games, but I honestly don't want to waste what little time I spend at a gaming table giving training. To a kid.
Too frustrating.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Sathos — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:05:10 -0000

Meh unless I am playing against my mates David (troop heavy nids/DE) or Angus (vehicle heavy squats/tricked out chaos) I tend to take an "all comers" fun list... ie: one thats a chuckle for both players and dependant on how I field it, as easy or tough for the opponent as I want it to be.

Funniest was against David's nids last week... I took an allcomer's list as he said he was trying something new but didnt tell me what...

My list had no vehicles (but a couple of walkers) and he turned up with a hybrid troop heavy/anti-vehicle list lol

A hard fought battle that he won well but was very close at the end.
The same list however could be used to educate a newbie player as it used all 3 templates, scatter, various troops/hq and the walkers...the only thing it missed was vehicles.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Sathos — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:55:26 -0000

Dont you love it when a lady eats your clock?

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Lerra — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:49:40 -0000

You should know the rules before going to a tournament certainly, but some people are just bad at memorizing numbers, and many players get nervous at tournaments, which only makes memory worse. I wouldn't begrudge anyone for needing to look up a number during a tournament. Personally, I'm horrible with numbers and will always look at the str/tng chart just to double check, out of fairness.

You just hope that the newer players didn't chose to play a horde army >_<

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Lerra — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:39:41 -0000

Slow players have to adapt for the tournament scene. I like to play a relaxing game and not feel like I'm over-caffeinated for 7 hours straight, so I bring an all-terminator deathwing list. Around 40 models at 2500 points (and half start off in reserve)! That way I can play the way that I want to, and my opponent doesn't get too annoyed because I like to breathe in between rolls.

My #1 pet peeve in tournaments is when there is a squad with 3-5 different weapons and the opponent picks up a bunch of different colored dice and starts rolling, expecting you to be able to follow. First of all, there is no universal standard that I'm aware of, where "red is melta" and "black is lascannon" or whatever. It makes it rather fishy when someone does all of their dice rolls in about 5 seconds with no explanation, almost like they are trying to hide something, and I hate to think that my opponent might be cheating.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Lerra — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:28:21 -0000

I guess my FLGS is weird. There is a store copy of each codex, so for casual games people often don't bring theirs from home. Also, I've never seen anyone have an army list. Most of the time, we show up, decide what point value we want to play with, and then create a list. I thought that was how everyone did casual games. It makes it much easier to adapt to your opponent (mostly toning things down for the newer player or those playing casual lists).

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

SinSynn — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:28:58 -0000

I've read this piece several times and each time it leaves me feeling like something's wrong here. I guess I find it strange that every single thing in the article could be reversed, and some folks would consider it great advice. Change the title to 'Why taking your time is important', switch a few things so it says completely the opposite of what it does now, and the bottom line is that the new, reverse version is also good advice!
I realize that some people get annoyed with the imposed time limit at tournaments. Most of 'em give you 2 to 2 and a half hours for the game and tht's it. My friendly games take 4 hours at 1750 pts. sometimes! Of course, cigarette breaksand constant B.S.-ing, along with constant mockery and little 'dying model' performances slow things up, but those are sometimes the best part!
I agree that being able to hustle during a game matters, and I wish people would stay during their opponents turn, and not wander off to 'update their facebook page' but what are you gonna do? Different folks, different strokes.
I just think that espousing 'making more mistakes' as a good thing is, ummm...wrong, somehow.
To slower players at tournaments I recommend-A)Know the mission beforhand, including any bonus objectives that can tip the result! Very important to spend the time reading those sheets you were provided! B) When you get to the table your game is at- don't get distracted by your opponent's models or anything else! Clever opponents will use this tactic so you don't have time to formulate a plan before the game begins. Walk up to the table, introduce yourself politely, then just as politely say "Excuse me for a moment while I check out the setup here. I'm kinda slow in the head, so I have to think everything through." Or something of that nature. C) Keep gaming! Nothing helps your speed more than simple experience and familiarity with your army. After a while things become second nature and your zipping through turns. D) Don't be anal! Don't measure every troop movement for a 20 man squad. Measure and move the front-rankers, and simply jump up the rear-rankers approximately to where they should be. Just eyeball it, please. This kinda behaviour, whilst it might 'throw off' your opponent will never ever win you friends, and very rarely ever really impacts the outcome of a game.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

UltramarineFan — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:27:26 -0000

When it comes to planetstrike the general vote is that it's termies for the win, even if you're defending. I recently had a planetstrike game with someone where he was the defender and he had three squads of terminators. It delivered a crushing counter attack to my measly two squads though it didn't help that I scuffed my reserve rolls and only half my army came on on the first turn. While he made every reserve roll he had.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

crazyredpraetorian — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:38:32 -0000

I typically play 2000pts in less than 2 hours.....and I stop rolling dice and tell long winded stories.LOL. Saturday 2 out 3 of my tournament games were played in less than 2 hours. The 3rd we finished 5 full turns with 8 minutes to spare. IG vs. IG. The first game was finished in about an hour and 15 minutes.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Maine — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:17:49 -0000

I have a technique for moving horde armies like Tyranids and Orks - if you have a large group of them, only move the back 6" worth (assuming a 6" move), by moving them to the front. In the case of the Ork special weapons, I'd move them up separately.

Doesn't help with assault moves though.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

zedsdead — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:53:34 -0000

sounds like jwolf is trying to get players to learn to play 2000 pts in 2 hrs so the BOLSCON doesnt become an epic fail as many predict on a number of other forums.

I agree that ive played games where i wish the other would pick up the pace..and this guide would be helpful... however i have to agree that 2000 pts in 2 hours for 7 games is asking for trouble.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Skragger — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:04:28 -0000

well.. I usually only bring the list I need for that army, and I type mine up and well, keep it to one page, nice and simple. Why bring a list for an army you're not bringing?

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Kirasu — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:07:17 -0000

I think tournaments should adopt a time limit for turns, so that each player gets equal amount of game time .. Horde players should have to play fast because they choose to play an army that is easy to stall with

If you only have 2 hours a round then each player should take no more than 10 minutes per turn, or 60 minutes total

Could give out clocks like chess does, because it really is frustrating to lose a tournament because you played Steve the ork player who has 120 models and doesnt know the CC to-hit or to-wound chart and moves each model individually instead of moving first model, then scooting everyone else up

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

Catzilla — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:55:24 -0000

I know what you mean. We played our local Bloodbowl tournaments on a time limit of 2 mins per turn. Fun!

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

an mous — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:11:12 -0000

Yikes. That's just sad.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

DuK — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:41:01 -0000

There's a huge difference between playing decisively and playing fast and loose.

What I find really slows people down is agonizing over what to do next. I find it is a tendency of people who don't get to play much; this is the only game they get to play this week (fortnight, month, etc) and they don't want to make a silly mistake and get rolled.

that being said, they get totally hung up on every little decision (should i deep strike here or there, should i rapid fire or pistol and assault). By the end of the game they're stressed (twice as much if they lose) and drained and end up not wanting to play again for another week (fortnight, yadda yadda).

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

DeathJester — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:29:31 -0000

As they say. 'The best form of defence is offence'. I'm prep'ing my harlequins, banshees and striking scorpions to give some pain in our PlanetStrike campaign that is starting at the beginning of next month at our local GW. Escape hatch anyone hehehehe

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

DeathJester — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:23:58 -0000

In tournament play if an opponent can't remember the Str/tng chart, then they shouldn't be in a tournament. This really is a fast play scenario, and people should know the stats of their armies back to front, and chart figures. Its a real pan to fire event!
I remember an opponent in this years devourer tournie who used a Eldar army that he had borrowed frrom a mate (his mate had organised the force composition for him as well!). It was extremely painful game, especially as I was an Eldar player as well and had to explain some of the stats for his units!

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

LEGION3000 — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:22:14 -0000

Ugh I hate that. Its even worse when your opponent doesn't have his own quicksheet to look up and has to ask, What do my guys hit on? every time.

If I tell you one time, and you don't write it down, all your guys hit on 7s.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Playing Fast is the Key to Paradise

DeathJester — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:16:20 -0000

I pretty much do the same with newbie player....'are you sure you want to go into the shooting phase?'. However, i only give that warning once (maybe twice for uber-newbies). After that they are fare game! Sometimes they need the pain to remember for next time.
When it comes to rolling back a move, it really depends on what side of the bed i woke up on , even for newbies some time.