Bell of Lost Souls - Latest Comments in 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

NuttyisasNuttydoes — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:42:58 -0000

Wow, we did it - the page is shut down. And the nutters haven't put it back up. I know I sent my email to GW Legal, they must have had a field day with them.

Huzzah, gamers! Say YES to "deathtoys".

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

Conrad_Dakarn — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:11:28 -0000

It wasn't the fact of the "questioning" of the violence and imagery entailed in the site.

It was the plain bias that was put into it and the uninformed statements that were being made.

Not to mention the fact that it did not, at any point, address the positive aspects of the hobby.

To created a page where there is nothing more than opinion, judgement and negative comments on any subject is going to generate a lot of anger by those being targeted. An uninformed and one sided argument is never going to be met with a positive response.

I have to admit at being shocked and appalled by the original site in question when I found it attempting to reference "god" and "angels" in a way to speak in decremental terms towards the hobby. A hobby which has not sparked a single war or murder in it's name whilst religion (particularly Christianity) has created numerous wars and legitimised the killing of innocent people through nothing more than ignorance (Salem Witch Trails for example).

Should the "new" page contain a broad an well researched perspective as well as presenting positive and negative arguments that aren't based on opinion but put forth with clear cut and sourced facts, then I can imagine it will become something to be discussed and will not be met with anger by those of us who partake in this hobby.

As for the affect on the imagery of the game upon children. They're bombarded constantly with the imagery that violence is all good and fine with the advent of television and computer games. You need only look at the "hits" Dragon-ball Z and Pokemon to realise that violence is something that is seen as every day for children. With regards to the "lore" and history of the hobby and the fantasy universe it is set in, many children do not read, care or even understand the fiction that is added to the books from which they create their armies. They simply want to play the game.....when was the last time you saw a child read the instruction booklet for any video game and actually bother to read the foreword which gave them some brief description or background to what they were about to play?

As I say, if you are fair and even with your examination of this topic as well as referencing materials and facts, it will likely be discussed in a fair an even handed manner where opinions and views can then be shared. BUT, before you can discuss a topic and bring opinion into it at any level, the facts of the topic MUST be put on the table first.

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On a side note, I would like to put forth that my brother-in-law (only 9 years old) used to suffer quite badly from violent tendencies, easy distraction and generally an inability to settle to anything. This was likely because of his parents being divorced and his father looking after him and not following the age restrictions on TV and video games. After taking up the hobby, however, he is able to vent his "violence" through the game itself and take the imagery of his Marines protecting humanity and destroying the alien menace to full fill what-ever anger he needs to get out. He's also able to settle for several hours at a time to assemble and paint his models without ever feeling the need to be destructive and simply destroy them for no reason.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

Herald of Nurgle — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:38:16 -0000

A new page is currently under construction to address this topic. Warhammer will not be the total focus of the new page, but it will be included in a prominent way.

We expect it to be ten times more fun when we are bombarded with hate mail from all new offended hobbyists, but then, that might not happen. We'll let you know if other hobbyists are rude and cranky or if it's Warhammer hobbyists in particular.

The subject addressed here may not seem to you to be valid or accurate, but there's nothing wrong with broaching it. War games are not sacred things that must never be questioned. If they were sacred they wouldn't be "just hobbies". Anything with violence in it, even a hobby, should be looked at. If there's nothing there to see, then that should be self evident. If there is something there to look at, then it should be looked at. Adults aren't very likely to be affected one way or the other in terms of violent imagery and themes in gaming, but kids definitely are. That is and still will be the point of the page.

The new page will come at this subject with gamers in mind. But this subject will be addressed. It's too important.

The new page is only just started and will take a while to complete, at least a month. When it's finished we hope it will not seem as offensive to gamers as the first page, but understand, the subject will still be violence, not every aspect of hobbies or gaming, so there won't be a list of the top ten great things about the game. That is not the subject or purpose of the page. That's not unfair, that is the subject. Gaming information is readily available on the internet and is not in short supply. It will not be included on this page.

It was never our intention to upset anyone, we don't want it to happen again, but no doubt some will still not be happy. Some don't want this subject looked at, at all. That is something we can't fix. We're looking at it.

If you're interested, check back in a month.

06/23/09

Please withhold emails regarding the previous page. We cannot accept emails at this time. All responses to emails will be auto-responses, emails are not read or received. Serious and thoughtful comments about the new page content will be accepted when the page goes up.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

Jeremy Daniel — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:04:26 -0000

This critique of Wh40k seems to miss the point by not reviewing the doctrines of the many other forces of the fictional universe.

Everyone, from the Eldar, to Chaos, to the IG believes themselves superior and uses this position of belief as a means of justifying genocide, murder, tyranny, and worse. Never does it enter their minds that there are means by which to achieve peace and friendship, and face off against truly horrible enemies (i.e. Daemons that are a result of all the crap they've done in the past). It's a social commentary, and gives us a sci-fi-fantasy means of exploring and expressing themes we have seen in human history and the modern day (and perhaps in our future). Not everyone gets this, and I still shake my head at IG players who refuse to use Ogryn or Ratlings, or even psykers, because they're "impure," *headdesk*, but for the most part, players truly revel in the beer & pretzel approach to war in the game - they get that it's atrocious, and that none of the armies are justified in their actions... the closest being the Orks, who were MEANT to fight and just like it (they don't truly hate their enemies), or the Tyranids (who, more so than any other race, love their enemies... food-wise... and want to join with them forever... genetically).

I must bring up another couple of reviews I've found online. Cerise Magazine is a relatively new e-zine for women gamers which focuses on feminine, or feminist, aspects of the gaming world (from video games, to RPGs, to tabletop & card games, etc.). I heard about them on a gaming podcast once, and checked them out for curiosity's sake, and found these two articles on Warhammer (mostly 40k):

This one discusses the fantasy and sci-fi themes integral to the 40k universe, what they seem to mean, and how they work together without evoking nerdly screams of "GENRE ALERT!!!"
http://cerise.theirisnetwor...

This one discusses the presumption of male gender default in the writing of the rulebooks, which in arcane speak ("he" and "him" being neutral) wouldn't be a problem, but seems to clash with modern English meaning and use of pronouns.
http://cerise.theirisnetwor...

Both of these articles are highly interesting takes on the 40k universe and its literature, and I found them to be enjoyable, even as a male reader. They made some great points and supported them with excerpts and solid rhetoric, unlike some conspiracy sites I could mention.

~J~

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

nihilio — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:05:41 -0000

My guess is a chaos cultist that has gone out to corrupt the tau empire.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

skullyjax — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:46:56 -0000

I have a copy of the original page, it's very funny.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

dastardlyboo — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:34:49 -0000

Ahhhh clearly I am raising my son to be the next Martin Bryant as we have been wargaming since he was about 12 years old.

We started with The Lord of the Rings game, but were soon drawn into 40K and Fantasy too. It's FICTION. MAKE BELIEVE. If your 10 - 12 year old is having trouble differentiating between fantasy and reality then wargames are the least of your problems.

If the issue is violent stimulus for children, then let's go back to book burning shall we? Lots of violent and dark things happen in The Hobbit, and lets not even get started on Harry Potter.

The author of that article clearly has a tenuous grasp of reality him/herself as well as having quite limited intelligence.

LOL @ all those unregistered, uninsured Orks!

Signed, an Ork/Eldar playing 40 year old mum.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

skullyjax — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:28:56 -0000

There is an easy solution to this. We sic the GW legal team on to the illegal use of the copyrighted materials that are posted. Now, I'm not one for the overbearing legal team but this is exactly why they have them. So, I did just that, wrote a quick email and it was forwarded on to the legal department.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

strangething — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:23:15 -0000

It looks like the original article has been taken down. But if you go back to the main page, you can learn all sorts of things about TEH TROOTH about 9/11 and morgellons.

http://www.pbsblog.com

No relation to the PBS TV network.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

jon — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:17:49 -0000

Wow...

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

TSINI — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:02:30 -0000

lol okay by that i don't mean everybody on the planet including the population of china, i just mean its a widely held belief that an american once bought london bridge thinking it was tower bridge

just as many people think earth only has 1 moon, or that henry VIII had six wives (he didnt), or that thomas graham bell invented the telephone (nope), or that cinderella wore glass slippers (fur apparently) or that chicken tikka massala was invented in india (it was invented in scotland), or that everest is the tallest mountain in the world (tallest being different to highest)

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

gridespider — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:53:24 -0000

wow, who pissed in his cheerios?

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

genotype — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:40:29 -0000

Anyone who believes this site's content gets what they deserve: misinformation. If they're dumb enough to take this as gospel, then they'll be dumb enough to believe any of the other stupid stuff that can be found formatted in ones and zeroes. One can only hope they don't pass their DNA on.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

genotype — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:35:46 -0000

"most people think theres a stupid american who bought london bride thinking it was tower bridge."

They do?

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

SinSynn — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:11:01 -0000

As a Tau player I resent that statement.
We are trying to help you embrace the Greater Good in an attempt to save you from yourselves!
Those scribblings were OBVIOUSLY written by a Chaos Cultist, trying to subvert the Imperium against itself.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

wolfy_molder — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:07:49 -0000

:O:O:O:O i think i'm in love with you!!

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

SinSynn — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:57:46 -0000

I'm pretty sure I gamed with those guys in the picture.
They're Ork players.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

Skragger — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:11:45 -0000

excuse me sir, I believe you mean ahahahay

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

Skragger — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 00:53:52 -0000

Well.. there was last tuesday.. that funny bloke with the four eyes and barbed stranglers...

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

faultie — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:05:53 -0000

Never fear! Google cache'd webpages is here!
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:ROAJRa0hakwJ:www.pbsblog.co...
Yay!

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

Wolfy_Molder — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 20:19:30 -0000

Unfortunately if you look at the site the person who wrote it has taken it down and written a long sob story about how us gamers took her article out of context and abused her and blah blah blah, it's a shame really, i didn't get the chance to screenshot it.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

Trve — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:42:30 -0000

And that she was a paranoid, conspirecy theory totting, alarmist loon.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

Trve — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:41:15 -0000

The new 'page' she put up is hilarious. Shes acting like this poor, persecuted victim being unfarily attacked by the big, mean gamers.

I mean, its not like she libialoulsy attacked something she knew nothing about or anything.

What a child. People didnt care that she was cautioning parents with small children. People cared that she was a liar.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

ShiningKnight — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:42:16 -0000

I was most angered when s/he immplied Chaos Space Marines and Space Marines are the same thing. Then I got offended, raza-frazin-Emperor-damn-ed-traitors-mumble-mumble.... Lucius the Eternal? Really? absurd.

Re: 40K EDITORIAL: Welcome to the Lunatic Fringe

mad_jobz — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:13:09 -0000

Well I emailed GW legal about this drivel, partly because of the libelous statements and partly because of the IP infringements. Wonder what'll happen next.