Bell of Lost Souls - Latest Comments in 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Herald of Nurgle — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:21:32 -0000

I was holed up in the UK Games Day queues that I never got into my Seminar (y'know? the thing where they say about future releases)
Bloody GW

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

UltramarineFan — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:51:16 -0000

LOL!

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

UltramarineFan — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:58:23 -0000

Also, 60 attacks! small advantage. I'm not suprised that they're 18pts and what's SB? If you have a problem with the techmarine couldn't you just not take one.
With leadership we're still at 8 most of the time it's only Chaos who have all 10s but they don't ATSKNF

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

UltramarineFan — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:54:37 -0000

Counter attack is thrown around in our codex?
Where? this is not critisism I really would like to know.

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

UltramarineFan — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:48:38 -0000

You will nver be able to compete with hachett and sixsystems, no how reasonable or good your comeback may be those two will just put 50 rounds through it with a barrage of insults. If you try to come back with your own insults it won't work either as they can just degenarate it till you look like a pathetic idiot throwing insults for no reason. If you don't belive me check the second deamon prince rumours post in the September section(look towards the bottom of that section)

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Random_Guy — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:02:37 -0000

Okay then lets be objective about this. All you DA and BA players are obviously upset that you don't get the new toys or points and standardization of the equipment. So lets look at this the other way around, as a marine player what do I not get by using my codex?

HQs
Company Master- in both DA and the BA codexes, they can have more than 2 weapons, doesn't sound like much but I'd quite like a captain with twin lightning claws and a storm bolter.

Chaplains- DA and BA players can enjoy 3 attack chaplains who strike at I5 for the same points as my generic one with 2 attacks at I4.

Librarians- With all the psykers turning up in the new codex and eldrad appearing in nearly every eldar army, I think the unlimited range on your psychic hoods is really quite nice.

Command Squads- You can make command squads with the older style of apothecary which in some situations is more useful, than just feel no pain. Plus your company champion receives a 5+ invulnerable save not just a pointless 6+.

Troops
Well apart from the fact that BA can get assault squads as troops and DA can get termies and ravenwing bikers, BIG advantages in 5th ed with only troops scoring.

Tactical Marines- Okay so the new marines get a 10 point break on tactical squads when we fully upgrade them, what happens if we don't want to do that? I have a tactical squad with 10 bolters, now under the new Marine rules that isn't great. I end up paying 10 points over the cost of the dark angels for my tactical squads. Please don't tell me that 10 bolters isn't a good setup, it's a setup that I've used a worked for a while now. Also what about a 5 man squad, DA and BA players get the option of taking special weapons in these squads. Is that fair?

Elites
Techmarines- So for 25 points extra you get an extra attack and wound, sure you lose the ability to bolster defenses, not a terribly great ability, but probably making the points about right. So that's out of the way lets see, you get the techmarine without him taking up a precious elites slot in your list and he gets the option of taking a rhino, razorback or drop pod. Then he can have his 4 plasma cannon armed servitors who don't go into mindlock for less points than mine. Nice little unit considering it still doesn't take an elites slot, 2 less than mine does!

Terminators- Okay so deathwing terminators don't get 3+ invulnerable saves from shooting but you can have your assault cannon on a unit otherwise armed with lightning claws. Why can't I have that? BA players get their terminators cheap as well, it includes the death company model, but you pay no additional points for him.

Scouts- Okay so we get these as troops, but that's not really a comparison to deathwing DA players. But you do get WS and BS4 scouts. Are your scouts trained better or something? For this bonus you pay 5 points for the unit regardless of whether theres 5 or 10. Yes we get the heavy weapons cheaper, but that might have something to do with the fact that we can't hit a barn door. Oh and we can't get a drop pod to put them into battle in.

Company Veterans (DA only)- So yes we get the nice Sternguard and Vanguard so why would I complain about this? Well forgetting the new ammo which is nice, the distinction between assaulty and shooty veterans is too clear cut in the new codex. The dark angels have a nice unit which can still be as shooty as a tactical squad but still retain most of the hitting power of a vanguard squad. 3 Power weapons in a 5 man squad is fairly nice. And relatively it does cost 15 points less than a vanguard unit. Sure you don't have the options to take jump packs but then again it's an Elites slot not a Fast attack slot.

Fast Attack
On balance there isn't a lot to mention here. In general BA and DA players do get a fairly bad deal on these units, but that may have something to do with the fact that you can take them on mass unlike other marine armies. Having the ability to take Ravenwing and Assault marines does mean that the competition for those slots is decreased.

Heavy Support
Devastators- Anyone noticed that providing you don't include missile launchers, any devastator squad you do under DA/BA rules will be cheaper. weird eh?

Land Raiders- So we get a new codex with a new set of rules for PotMS. Now some people think it's better, but I for one think it's probably worse. So I can fire 1 more weapon than I would be able to normally, ever tried firing both sets of sponsons on the land raider at another tank, it is actually quite difficult to be able to get line of sight with them both. The Lascannon isn't really going to do much against targets suitable for heavy bolter fire and vice versa. So firing at BS2 isn't that much of an issue in my opinion. But where the old rules trump the new rules is that the land raider is able to move in a straight line even if stunned or shaken. That means I don't need to buy extra armour- a 15points break. Also how come you only pay 5 points for the extra storm bolter to my 10, in fact that's the same across the board with the exception to the Baal Predator who pay the new costs.

Okay rant nearly over. But seriously guys if I can find all these things that the BA/DA do better than the vanilla marines then there are probably more than I haven't found. Your codex isn't unplayable just because the new marine codex comes out and the FAQ doesn't say you should get the all the new toys. Play to your strengths and you can still make a competitive army. If you're playing a fun game then sure ask your opponent if you can use the new wargear stats from the new codex, but if he says no then don't get upset. This is a game after all, in the long term you could get the new codex and try to work out a list using it, using your models. Even the UK GT will let you run DA/BA using the vanilla codex so there's not really a problem there.

Also remember you've had your year of being the front runner as a codex, next year if the rumors come true we may be looking at space wolves and then everyone will be playing using their codex because it will be so much better etc (or just different like yours).

Rant Over!!

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Steve — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:48:42 -0000

Dunno bout the angels but puppies have some major disadvantages
basic bolter marine- 18pts
basic termy with SB PF- 48pts
- no teleport deep strike
much worse, more expensive bikes and assault marines
no librarian (rune priest has 1 defensive psychic power)
very rare Ld10
unusable techmarine (iron priest), no servitors

... for all that we get a few combat bonuses. then the new codex SM comes out and 'counter attack' becomes widely available at +3pts (16+3=19... 1 point more, but only taken when needed) and a whole lot of characters with WS6 (where only SW special characters have WS6 and even then that has special explainations)

Advantages only outweigh disadvantages in very special situations... personnally I think most puppies are only non nilla thanks to the sheer joy of a 15 man Blood Claw charge (<60 attacks... bliss)- lovin' the LR crusader

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Steve — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:03:57 -0000

Joe is right but he didn't put it very clearly: C:SW has only got 1 vehicle info in the codex: FAQ says we have to use Ven Dread from C:SW because it has actually got an entry...
Its still the same message- use as written, if written

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Walsh — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:55:40 -0000

Suck it marine players, bwahahahahaahaha

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Sixsystems — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:10:03 -0000

I agree with Faultie- there is very little consistency with the Rules Boyz. Maybe if they didn't have an Orky name they wouldn't give us "information" that allows for games to descend into madness....

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Sixsystems — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:06:49 -0000

Orks waited 10 years. Its the latest trend, you see. All the cool armies are doing it. And since we all agree that DA are pretty cool, I'm afraid they will just have to wait a bit longer...

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Sixsystems — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:03:25 -0000

Hey Dennis-

If you aren't going to offer anything constructive, stay the f**k off this blog. The naysayers are Hatchett and myself. Try to take our positions and I fear that you will be bitchslapped....

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

shakespear — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:39:43 -0000

German Krupp Kfz 70 Part code FOW-GE420 is $18

You can buy it in resin Part code SKU: FOW-GE426 for $11

You get two for both prices, yea real expensive.

I can get a complete 1500 point army for $200 in FOW or I can buy less than half of that in Marines

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

LLPaulJ — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:37:05 -0000

Blood angels have had incendiary castellan missiles since their new codex. They haven't been unique for a while.

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Blackwolf — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:28:47 -0000

For the cost of resin FOW is incredibly overpriced. In truth it costs just as much money to play FOW as it does to play 40k.

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

LLPaulJ — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:38:20 -0000

Sweet! I was worried that they'd bash dark angels apothecaries with the nerf stick, the way they did with codex: space marines.
Terminator or bike squad ignoring one failed save per turn ftw!

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

NEIL "BFG" BRIMELOW — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:51:49 -0000

Actually, I am not even a Dark Angels player right now, but I am still angry at the inconsistency and the "F-U" attitude from GW.

As for the Storm Shields and Daemonhunters, you must remember that Daemonhunters was a third edition codex, and also not a space marine codex.

As I said before, I don't care if certain Space Marine chapters have different ways they use the storm shield, if that had been established previously. GW simply changed the stats of the storm shield across the board, for most of the non-codexed armies, but screwed over everyone else because they were too lazy to spend the weekend necessary to properly do FAQs.

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

UltramarineFan — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:20:39 -0000

Reading the stuff above I wan to ask how many people actually play codex chapter?
Now how many of you used Traits?
If you used traits you were not a serious codex chapter and if you did you had disadvantages to take aswell.
My point is that now this codex is showing all those divergent chapter players that just because we are codex and 'normal' does not mean that we are in some way inferior to chapters that suffer from mutations, have terrible secrets or who like to wage war in their own way and not as guilliman stated.
Thepoint is that if you diverge from the standard that should give you an advantage and a disadvantage comapred to the standard and I think that in previous editions the disadvantage has been pretty much non-existent.
Effectively this our turn with the parcel of Superior Codex and you cannot deny that all you others have held it aswell it's just our turn now. Stay calm it will come back to you.

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

UltramarineFan — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:12:46 -0000

Noticed the price points wise on the Vanguard? and that's without jump packs and they can only use heroic intervention if they have jump packs.

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

wingzed — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:10:34 -0000

You all keep forgetting this is still a business. Cost, cost, cost.

Just agree with your mates the things that you can change. 12 in a land raider, no problem, storm shield 3+ Inv save, sure why not. If it unbalances things I'm sure they'd tell you.

If you are hell bent on tournaments then contact the organisors before hand.

It's only a game ;o)

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Nicholas_S — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:01:32 -0000

Aren't Vanguard Veterans now better than Blood Angels Assault Veterans, due to the 'Heroic Intervention' rule?

Jump Pack equipped Veterans were always unique to Blood Angels and their successors.

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Steve — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:36:29 -0000

Joe- everyone knows that people would complain no matter what the FAQ said... if the FAQ had said NO, use as per your codex (as it starts out) there would have been grumbles. Its the No but yes (or Vicky Pollard for all the Little Britain fans) answer thats annoyed most people; FAQs should end arguments. Period.

but yes, I agree that to be a puppy is glorious in its chaos... but look in you C:SW and just try to figure out the rules for rhino, razorback, wolf totem, bionics etc... how pissed would you be if a FAQ came out saying that we should use all wolf wargear as stated in the codex: so wolf totems are C:SM sacred standards, which don't exist and therrfore can't be used.....

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Steve — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:18:56 -0000

The important thing here is N00Bs... yes the game needs depth but it also needs to be understandable. Combat Shields are different to Storm Shields (understandable), but storm shield being different to Storm Shields is just silly. If different chapters use different rules then call them different things.

I think the worst change to happen to 40k since 2nd Ed is the division of weaponry: if you understood what an autogun, lasgun and boltgun were you were set since that was 95% of all the different weapons (no shoota, slugga, shiruken, rail rifle etc). This was made even simpler by the fact that basic troops choices had similar weaponry even when the name was different (autoguns, lasguns and yes even tyranid spike rifles were all idetical: S3 24")
In 5th edition you have to either collect an army or to have played it countless times to understand the differences... I'm often left feeling guilty when I spring a cunning trap using my special rules and instead of the opponent saying "oh gosh, didn't see that" you get "huh, I don't get how your doing that"

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Sixsystems — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:10:05 -0000

This is turning into Magic: the Gathering. For those who didn't play- there were certain rare cards that could upset the balance of the game because not everyone had access to them (ergo rare). Wizards of the Coast (owners) decided that they would allow for several types of tournament play- some with all the cards, some with only the latest cards, some with a strange mix. It all was getting a little confusing and desperate when I dropped the game.

People got tired of M:tG and stopped playing much like I did. I wonder if GW will be heading in the same direction. Right now there are a lot of folks that are frustrated with the lack of support for their armies and are looking elsewhere. As I've mentioned in posts before, we players work very heard to make our respective armies look and play as good as possible. We deserve to have a company that loves the hobby just as much as the customer does.

Now, to the issue of the FAQ: I didn't bother reading it. Why? Because it won't solve anything until GW actually produces a codex for the players of the Dark and Blood Angels and everyone one else. I agree with Miggidy_Mack that all they have produced is a non-answer without having read the FAQ because that's exactly what they were going to do until they saw how sales were doing with the new space marine line. If it was going to sell, they would focus more attention on it- if sales appear to be a bit lean, they will give you a crappy FAQ that any middle school student could have produced in an afternoon.

So, I guess what I'm getting at is that I don't believe they said no. I believe they said no with an asterisk (no*). After all, if the economy gets better and sales pick up, they can always remove that asterisk or get rid of the "no" altogether...

Re: 40K NEWS: FAQ Codex SM to Dark Angels!

Steve — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 11:58:33 -0000

Quote from RobK: "I read the FAQ, and re-read it. Since FAQ stands for "Frequently Asked Questions", one might assume they intend in the answer to make the same question less frequent by satisfying the questioner. Not so in this "FAQ"."

Wow are you naive Rob thinking that there were answers; FAQs are just a list of the frequently asked questions you need to remember... an excellent aide memoire