DISQUS

LexingtonNet · 4 months ago

I think it's nice that Games Workshop decided to offset the popularity of Vulkan He'stan by making his native Chapter the *worst-looking army imaginable.* :P

Too · 4 months ago

Looks moronic. Painting mine Terran-Black because it just looks plain cool. I also have Terran-Black marines in other chapters.

The daemonic-black was a stupid idea and should be changed.

faultie · 4 months ago

It just looks like they stopped painting when they got to the non-covered bits.

It's almost as if they hate doing skin heads as much as I do!

magiler · 4 months ago

This black-black color is hard to bear, they look like unfinished painting!

Rich · 4 months ago

Whoever is running the Eavy Metal team now needs to sit down and take a long look at those... They look awful. We're talking full on, first series Star Trek, wobbly polystyrene planet, women painted with green grease-paint awful here...

They completely detract from the rest of the model. You can tell that the painter didn't like the idea and just couldn't be arsed.

Good news on the rest of the releases though! Where does Space Hulk fall into the schedule?

fenris · 4 months ago

bah! I dont like the look of those salamander scouts. It just looks like black with a slight highlight of green.

Lactic Acid · 4 months ago

I agree, they look stupid.

Whoops - someone kept their marshmallow marines a little too close to the fire.

Gothmog · 4 months ago

The black skin was established in some fluff as well.

Heroes of the Space Marines has a story where is clearly mentions the fact. Red eyes as well.

Droids_Rule · 4 months ago

Yes, but was it ever so literally applied? When I read that they had jet black skin, I expected them to look like Kenyans or something. But this just looks like primer.

an angry jew · 4 months ago

the land speeder storm is amazing. I have one converted and if is worth every point. the model is so cool that I need to get at least 2 more.

JekCromium · 4 months ago

In the grim darkness of the future there are only...Caucasians?

Ryan · 4 months ago

Exactly!! Their whole thing with their old skin color made them unique but at the same time realistic. This new thing is just plain stupid and I have no idea what they were thinking by changing it. I guess the only cool thing that I can think of with the new skin/eye color is that it contrasts so well with the Salamanders actual demeanor seeing as they are one of the "nicest" and more "compassionate", relatively speaking, Space Marine chapters out there but have this "Daemonic" visage that frightens those that they want to protect.

Hell, in the new codex they even make the White Scars seem less Asian/Mongolian and more Middle Eastern in demeanor and appearance.

fade_74 · 4 months ago

My catachan force is about 20% Caucasian, 40% African, and 40% Native American skin tones. White skin just doesn't fit really well into the hard ass jungle fighter picture for me. As a matter of fact...I only painted my catachan command squad for the IG challenge white because they show up better for photos. At least a couple of them will get a new skin shortly.

Vampire Harlequin · 4 months ago

Apparently, The Salamanders home planet, Nocturn I believe it's called, is highly eradiated. This gives them pitch-black skin and red eyes. I can't remember where I read it, 40K wiki doesn't go into as much detail as an article I have red.

I remember the piece saying how terrifying their appearance is, and that entire planets are subdued by the shock of it. Which seems a bit...You know, just 'cos they have pitch-black skin the entire planet assumes they're gonna get 'jacked'? Hmmm. I'm sure it's not supposed to come across like that, but still, it seems a bit odd considering the diversity and barely comprehendable bizarre-nes of the 40k-verse that uniquely skinned Space Marines would be so awe inspiring.

But yeah, I actually think as an idea, it's great. Makes them visually unique and characterful. In practice, the exposed flesh looks like someone's got as far as the black base coat, had some surplus red, and a deficiet of time. Nice idea, poor execution, it looks cack.

UltramarineFan · 4 months ago

They would be fearful just as they are fearful of mutants, it's something highly unusual and therefore something not to be trusted. Remember that it also gives them a daemonic appearance.

SuicideBadger · 4 months ago

"We have seen schedules with August-15 as the ship date for Planetary Empires. Look out for it."

June White Dwarf gives a release date of 4th July in UK for Planetary Empires? Is this confirmed by anyone? If so I want to buy it next weekend...

Noserenda · 4 months ago

Thats Planetstrike, different expansion :D

Myu · 4 months ago

I gotta get one of those land speeder storms

Facebook User · 4 months ago

Old news and Codex Space marines is full of the same colour...

Yes it's bloody hard to keep a focal point with pitch black faces. My scouts all have helmets ^^

Meeda · 4 months ago

I thought that the black skin was something that came gradually.. soeh.. scouts not at all or only slight then going darker as they aged and finally the most veteran of them like commanders would be all black..

Legionary · 4 months ago

Jet-black Salamanders look ridiculous. Further, removing the only official non-caucasian characters is a bad idea.

faultie · 4 months ago

Jaghatai Khan was Caucasian?

Anonymous · 4 months ago

Why the hell do you need official non-caucasian characters? GW has never done anything to stymie the possibility of someone in the Imperium not being white.

And consider this - which is more offensive: the idea that radiation from a planet would turn white people into black people with red eyes, or re-retconning that by making them white people with actual pitch-black skin? I don't know about you but it never sat well with me that they were indirectly saying that an unnatural mutation (something usually considered to be a bad thing to have happen to you) turned them black. Pile on top of this the notion that there 'needed' to be a 'black chapter', rather than mixed chapters, something I think is perfectly reasonable for Space Marine fluff and I'm surprised I don't see more of it, such a seemingly horrible gesture of token equality it left a pretty sour taste in my mouth. I knew none of this really wasn't GW's intent, I like Salamanders that way better when it comes to their overall appearance, but I'm certainly glad they perceived an obvious PR problem and eliminated it in a simple fashion by returning the Salamanders to their old state.

Legionary · 4 months ago

Siiigh... I don't think either of us needs to be foaming at the mouth rabidly about this. When your opening gambit is "Why the hell do you-" then you either need to calm down or express yourself in a way that's less worthy of the charicature "angry internet man".

The idea you found offensive - being in an environment where greater skin pigmentation is an advantage and therefore is more prevalent - is in fact simply evolution. If you don't set out to find offense in everything you will hardly find it in anything, and the reverse of that is true.

There was no sense that there "needed to be a black chapter", there was no sense of tokenism about it at all. Everyone understands that 40K is an abstraction, and that obviously black people exist as do all of the human races.

There was no PR problem at all in having them painted as dark-skinned humans. I don't doubt that the reason they chose to switch to the Salamanders having pitch black skin was purely a question of game-background. My point is simply that there are now no official depictions of black people in 40K. That's probably due to painting, because fair skin tends to be easier to paint and detail than dark skin.

But my main issue is that having totally undetailed pitch-black skin looks bloody terrible, whereas the previous standard of them being black humans not only looked good but added some nice variety to the depiction of humanity in the 40K universe.

Anonymous · 4 months ago

I can start my posts however I like, thanks. I don't feel the need to be particularly diplomatic.

"The idea you found offensive - being in an environment where greater skin pigmentation is an advantage and therefore is more prevalent - is in fact simply evolution. If you don't set out to find offense in everything you will hardly find it in anything, and the reverse of that is true."

Don't paint me as someone who gets offending by things that are slightly offensive, I'm easy-going when it comes to these sorts of things which is why I forgave GW for what was obviously an oversight. Scientific basis aside, the fact remains that mutations are considered shameful aberrations in 40k fluff, and a Space Marine chapter has one of these mutations that just happens to make them look like black people. Surely it's not hard to see how that could be taken in the wrong way?

"There was no sense that there "needed to be a black chapter", there was no sense of tokenism about it at all. Everyone understands that 40K is an abstraction, and that obviously black people exist as do all of the human races."

You're speaking from the gracious perspective of an established fan. I've raised many an eyebrow when mentioning the fact that Salamanders were black to friends of mine that aren't involved in 40k that already knew that pretty much all the other chapters were presented as predominantly white. It just smacks of a throwaway concession, even if it really wasn't.

We're certainly on the same page of one book: the pitch-black skin looks pretty awful and there was nothing visually wrong with Salamanders as they were not too long ago. I don't think anyone should stop painting Salamanders that way if they don't want to.

Legionary · 4 months ago

"I can start my posts however I like, thanks. I don't feel the need to be particularly diplomatic."

Then here's a lesson for you to learn: I read that line then skipped the rest of your post. :)

Cyclone · 4 months ago

Having melanin in your skin (the pigmentation) doesnt really protect from radiation.... unless you're talking about UV rays, which is technically radiation..... Um, what is the source of this "harmful" radiation on Nocturn, is it the sun, or a nuclear holocaust thing?

Darren · 4 months ago

I've always loved the coal black skin on Salamanders. Does look a little odd, there, but I think it's mostly just the size of the image...

Anyway, what's stopping people from painting marines black? I know my guys are fairly tanned, and I know someone else who (oddly) chose to call his chapter teh "Black Brother" marines :/ Not cool.

Docrailgun · 4 months ago

Though it's a retcon, the new Codex specifically says that the Salamanders have jet-black skin and glowing red eyes.

Fixer · 4 months ago

Technically it's not a retcon. Rogue trade originally had the Salamanders with blue-black skin and red fiery eyes with Infravision.

This was all forgotten with their update in Codex Armageddon. Many of the miniatures in that old studio army are actually painted white, including sergeants and the standard bearer.

Myu · 4 months ago

I think the paint job fits with their fluff. I don't see why people don't like it so much.

Hm... maybe change the hair though. To what I can't decide.

Chaosgerbil · 4 months ago

I think it is borderline racist how few official GW models are anything other than aliens or white humans.

I agree the black looks bad, it is barely highlighted and black is a salamander spot color as well.

Darren · 4 months ago

How exactly? It's like Pokémon and stuff, where I think there might be 4 non-Japanese people in the game series. It isn't racist to exclude a group indirectly. If they went out of their way to say "yeah, there aren't black people in the Grimdark!", then you might have a point, but right now it's just trolling ;)

Chaosgerbil · 4 months ago

It's an opinion, not a troll post. I think Pokemon takes place in one country, and 40k spans the galaxy with its uncounted billions of humanity.

Thorbjørn Nielsen · 4 months ago

No it's not. Space Marines are bio-engineered. You could do whatever you want with them. ;-D

I remember the most wasted discussion on whether Chaos troops should have suicide bombers in Epic.. this was dropped because it hurt Israeli players. Come on! Stop linking reality and 40k! It makes no sense! :-)

Norseman · 4 months ago

Dark Angles are notably North American Indian. Feathers and all.

I do agree though that most other foreign cultures(to UK) are simulated by alien species. They always have been. That does explain the noted usually whitey Imperial forces. Really it is up to the painter what color they are but most Eavy metal painters do paint Caucasian for some reason.

Please do not flame me for this or call me a racist...
This is from what I recall from Wikipedia it was originally taken from a interview with one of the early game designers. I couldn't find it again or I would have linked to it.

40K and Fantasy is a little different but basically broke down something close to this.
Imperial Guard (Russia, Finland, Canada & Many more)
Space Marine (Modern USA)
Chaos (Separatist 1800s USA)
Sister's of Battle (Catholic Church, Italy & Spain)
Empire(Northern European & Germany)
Ork (Africa & Celts) Weird mix I know
Eldar & High Elves (British)
Necron & Tomb Kings(Arab)
Dark Elf (USA)
Vampire Counts (Eastern European)
Exodite Eldar & Wood Elf (North American Indian)

These were not in the article but I am pretty sure everyone agrees
Lizardman (Aztec)
Bretonnia (France)
Tau (Asian)

wulf · 4 months ago

Dwarves are from Yorkshire ...:)
space marines = usa ...mmm to me thats wrong each chapter of marines are taken from differant parts of the world eg
Fenris= Scandinavian countrys ..
vanilla marine maybe usa
whitescar=Mongolia
The Emperor = British has to be a Yorkshire man :D

if you want to point anything to the usa its imperial guard cadia regiments

just my opinion so no flame wars :P and there is no denying it so no fooling yourselves you know deep down its true so no arguments your only kidding yourself the Emperor is a yorkshire man

wulf · 4 months ago

ohh i forgot chaos is the same as the space marine chapters

Norseman · 4 months ago

I do agree that the different chapters and regiments are all based on different places Space Wolves Scandinavians and Valhallans Finland, I was talking about the Generic marines. Even the Ultramarines are really going more Roman now.

I was being general.

fritts@yahoo.comRift Knight · 4 months ago

With the emphesis for latin names in the imperium I suspect the emporer was Roman/ Italian decent.

Rift Knight

Rahakanji · 4 months ago

Hes Caucasian, its somewhere mentioned that he staid a long time down there, do i assume hes from down there...

Ginge · 4 months ago

After reading Mechanicum with him imprisoning The Dragon I kinda took The Emporer to be the basis for the story of St George. Despite being the patron saint of England he never set foot here, lived in the persian gulf didn't he? I checked my ideas closer to the time, but I remember thinking the location described in mechanicum was where the real St George was said to have lived.

Now whether that effects WHERE he came from I don't know... he could have already been several thousand years old by this point and St George could just be one of MANY aliases he had over the years until he was ready to unite humanity... but I'd certainly say it's one of them :o)

MrCuss · 4 months ago

St George was apparently from modern day Turkey!

Hwilam · 4 months ago

and Albion, the island that is roughly analogous to where Our Designers are from, is populated with Giants and Sorcerers...
Hmmm....
Could they be compensating for something?

Lord Marius · 4 months ago

Definitely. It's a proven fact that the majority of us Brits are a bit weedy and non-magical.

Anonymous · 4 months ago

Orks have always been modeled after British footie hooligans.

Chaosgerbil · 4 months ago

Very interesting. That makes some sense in light of the themes of the armies. You are not racist for paraphrasing an article.

Bretonnia is more based on Britain though, and Arthurian myths. I think the Empire is continental western europe, mostly a mix of germany and france.

I think 40k has always in part been a sublimation of our feelings towards war. The British and Americans both have a long history of colonization and the Warhammer 40,000 universe has always had the theme of humans colonizing the galaxy and fighting off the hostile natives / aliens. Thankfully there is much more complexity and originality in the 40k universe which keeps us players coming back...

Norseman · 4 months ago

Well I will agree that Bretonnia has Aurthurian mythology interlaced but they are pretty Frenchy if you ask me... Bringing ladies to war...Fleur de lis...King Louen?

Kinda like if France made up King Arthur.

Bugstomper · 4 months ago

The french didn't make up King Arthur but the celts that left britain to settle in Brittany in north-west france took the old legends with them and that's why all over Brittany you'll find references to merlin, arthur, lancelot etc.. and a lot of Bretons (people from Brittany) think that a lot of the events of Arthurian legend took place there and not Devon and Cornwall as the Britons think.

Hence Brettonians in Warhammer being Bretons of France, or as closely related as any other race of beings in the GW universe, they always claim that no one race/nation is directly represented by their range and that things like the Space Wolves are taken from a number of scandanavian and celtic myths and legends. Ultramarines are a mixture of Roman, Greek, Spartan etc..

Chaosgerbil · 4 months ago

I sit corrected. Thanks.

Rahakanji · 4 months ago

The Bretonians are more like medieval Europe, the Empire more like 30-years War Europe...

AfroCelt · 4 months ago

as a big fan of Afro Celt Sound System (notice the username?) and an avid ork general for many years, I think it's a match made in heaven :) .

Allison · 4 months ago

I've seen Salamanders with the Charcoal skin color in issues of WD from way before the rulebook. This isn't a new thing, guys.

As for DA being American Indians.... the Heresy books make it pretty clear they're a knightly order, the the feather accents are for angel's wings, Norseman, not eagle feather accents. You might be thinking of the conversion that appeared in an ancient WD, where one 'Eavy Metal painter made an Indian DA termie squad, complete with Apache glyphs.

Don't get me wrong, paint 'em how you want, but them's the facts.

Norseman · 4 months ago

If you read some of the OLD fluff there were a few stories in their first Codex about the worlds that DA recruit from being basically Native American Indian worlds. The newer Heresy books may have diverged from the original, but originally they were Indians. That is the main reason a NA Indian friend of mine plays DA.

Jay · 4 months ago

The origin story Deathwing cleary paints a picture of Dark Angels with Native Americanish backgrounds. They all have names like Two Heads Talking and the like.

Jay · 4 months ago

I found my old copy. The author was William King. Other characters were Lame Bear, Cloud Runner and Weisel-feirce. It's the story of the terminators that fended off a genestealer invasion and were honered by the change in deathwing colors from black to bone-white.

James · 4 months ago

Absolutely.

The *new* edition of Deathwing revises the story to fit in with the retconned Dark Angels background: that since the destruction of Caliban the Dark Angels recruit neophytes from many different worlds, and the world of Two Heads Talking etc. is changed to be just one of many worlds the DAs recruit from.

In the original Deathwing anthology, it was presented as the Chapter homeworld.

Admittedly, the Native American names don't really tie in with the mention of Lion El'Johnson in the sidebar on the DAs in Rogue Trader but that's 40K fluff for you, it grows and clumps confusedly together like navel fluff :-)

Darren · 4 months ago

Cloud Runner? I think I have the name for my Captain lol.

Gotthammer · 4 months ago

The original Deathwing story has them having their original clan name (Broken Knife), and their Chapter name (Gabriel).

The Rite of Deathwing was when the clan warriors painted their bodies in funery ash as they didn't expect to come back from a battle. The terminators do the same when they fight the genestealers.

The story's one of my favourite 40k pieces of fiction as it really explores the marines' dual life as a human with a family and a warrior of the Emperor. Hopefully the upcoming Salamanders books will do that (unless they changed that they live with their clans too).

Allison · 4 months ago

Well, bugger me, I stand corrected! You clever lads and your deep libraries of old fluff.

I still wish the Deathwing squads were 10-strong instead of a measly 5. The one time I tried 5-man squads they were annihilated to a man.

phoenix01 · 4 months ago

"How to Paint Space Marines" gives the Dark Angels Hebrew names like Ezekiel, Azrael, Absolom, etc. And the Salamanders are caucasians.

nihilio · 4 months ago

Actually that's Judeochristian Angelic names, not Hebrew.
Azrael, for instance, is Arabic, not Hebrew (him being the Arab Angel of Death)

phoenix01 · 4 months ago

Thanks for splitting that hair so finely for us.

nihilio · 4 months ago

You're welcome

Sathos · 4 months ago

Quoting "how to paint space marines" as the source is a bit daft mate...you'd have been better off quoting from the DA's list of special characters themselves ie: Azrael is the current supreme commander of the Dark Angels, Ezekiel is the Grand master of librarians, Asmodai is the interrogator chaplain... also are Bethor, Gabriel, Sapphon...

phoenix01 · 4 months ago

I quoted the references I have access to; how is that daft? Considering I don't own "Codex Dark Angels" but I do own "How to Paint Space Marines," I quoted what I have access to.

And, by the tone of your message, I'm not your mate.

faultie · 4 months ago

I'd say the race that has most been modded/painted up for Native Americans are actually the Kroot. Multiple GD winners and competitors, plus numerous others that I've seen, play heavily on the head-dresses, feathers, and general theme. It can look really good when done well.

nihilio · 4 months ago

I play Dark Angels and I always pictured them as the Knights Templar. You know, the historical ones, with Grand Masters, being deemed heretics and going into hiding, this kind of stuff (as opposed to the crusader Black Templars).
The Native American comes from their recruiting techniques (Since Calliban, with the Order and the monsters at the woods is pretty much Celtic) and gives a second level to their fluff.

finkrod · 4 months ago

Not a big fan of the charcoal color, but whatever. But I will say that I'd like to see a bit more ethnic diversity in the 'Eavy Metal teams repetoir. I'm not saying they need to do it, or that I'm outraged, just that I would like to see it. I mean, I know whiteys on the moon and all, but there must be at least a few black and mexican guys out there somewhere.

James · 4 months ago

GW showed a lot of diversity in their miniatures painting years ago for the figures for the Dark Future car wars game. Because it was set in a near future America, they painted the figures to represent not just caucasians.

Anon · 4 months ago

If you think about it eventually if the world became overpopulated there would be no more racial differences. Just one mixed race.

SinSynn · 4 months ago

'but there must be at least a few black and mexican guys out there somewhere'

-Someone has to be mopping the floors, after all!

Herald of Nurgle · 4 months ago

Ooh...

I love Planetary Empires. I love Crusader sprues. I love Aquila Lander.

Good tidbits...

Paul · 4 months ago

Well, one thing to think about (and I may be wrong) but don't the Space Marines start to take on physical aspects of their Primarchs after they recieve the Gene Seed? Couldn't this have something to do with skin tone, hair and eye color, and even temperment? So are there any Primarchs that aren't Caucasian?

Sharp1011 · 4 months ago

Yeah, Vulkan is black.

Or at least, Vulkan *was* black.

Skragger · 4 months ago

And we just KNOW which Primarch died first dont we....

Harmokan · 4 months ago

What is absolutly embarising about the "new" Salamanders fluff is the fact that the radiation of the world Nocturne is causing the stronger pigmentation, not the sun. oO

...and the old Salis fluff states that the sun of the Nocturnesystem is a red giant.
A red giant thou is known for it's really weak UV-radiation. Thus the Salamanders should have a really pale skin.

But this is not the first time GW doubled the fluff. Take a look at the chaos defiler.....

mathhammer · 4 months ago

yet according to the fluff Space Marines change their skin color as the need dictates. Which means in most cases a fluff painting job, all the space marines would be black.

* Melanochrome - Linked to pigment cells in skin, this allows the Marine's skin to shield him from dangerous levels of radiation.

Harmokan · 4 months ago

..and why should the Salis get their Skin darkned if their isn't any real UVradiation on Nocturne?!

According to the Melanochrome Organ nearly every Chapter could be black, simply by fighting under high UV condition ;)

Boom_Radley · 4 months ago

I don't care what the official fluff is. Salamanders should be terran-black.

Kahoolin · 4 months ago

I think the idea of jet-black skin with red eyes is pretty cool, like the drow elves in dungeons and dragons. I have to admit they didn't do it too well though.

As far as I can tell 40k players (and this includes studio painters) are predominantly white, so they paint their models white without even thinking about it. That's not racism, just lack of creativity and thoughtlessness. And as for the background, you can't fault a product of a particular culture (in this case white anglo) for being centred on that culture. Art and myth are elements of culture. If 40k was made in Japan it might have less white people but it also wouldn't be 40k.

redmachine17 · 4 months ago

there seems to be a lot of anger floating abou re: the black skin fluff...

In the recent story in Heroes of the Space Marines, they say the jet black skin is a by product of their gene seed, not a result of being from Nocturne. So it's like Space Wolves growing fangs or Blood Angels going mental....

To quote the book..... "genetic ebonisation of your skin when you became Astartes"..... Bit of a spoiler here, but he turns white again, as he was before he was a Salamander.

It does look atrocious on models though, I think we can all agree on that lol

Kid Kyoto · 4 months ago

y'know I really thought we were past the days when GW considered 'black skin' a chaos mutation.

I guess I was wrong.

Denzark · 4 months ago

Salamander skin is nothing to do with race issues - probably more to do with the fact that GW avoids the politial correctness that strangles some parts of (government-interfered with) British society that requires positive discrimantion and proportional representation.

If it doesn't matter what colour your skin is what does it matter how many ethnicities are actually portrayed?

A load of tosh because what does it matter? I notice no one is complaining about the lack of homosexual disabled space marines from single parent, low income families.

nihilio · 4 months ago

Technically most of the space marines come from low income families (Deathworlds, Hives etc)

Anon · 4 months ago

Well said.

michael · 4 months ago

space marines lose their identities through psycho-indoctination so no need to relate to parents ect.
there are quite a few disabled characters eg cassius is basically a brain in power armour
anyway going back to the salamanders i think its charcol black as the radiation would have caused severe burning to their skin but personally the best salamanders ive seen were painted with green flesh
if WD made an artical on painting different skin colours i might make some of my models bare headed

anon · 4 months ago

wait a minute, guys. people are complaining that salamanders are black due to a gene-seed mutation, making the logical stretch that 'black is mutation, mutation is bad, black is bad' in gw fluff.

okay.

well, raven guard are lily-white due to a gene-seed mutation.

is anyone else seeing the problem with the pc police this time?

brad · 4 months ago

Guys, this is how they are meant to look, fluff-wise. And all those talking about mutations should take a second to think that Vulkan was exactly the same. He grew up on the same planet, and had the same skin colour. It's a natural reaction to the massive amounts of radiation.

tl;dr this is the canon skin colour and anyone who says otherwise is incorrect

RetributionAngel · 4 months ago

WATCH OUT they can do driveby-shooting ^^