I'm confused. Nowhere does it say, including in the Rage USR, that you must assault. Only that you MOVE towards the closest unit. Did I miss something or am I just being nitpicky?
Mr. Bean
· 9 months ago
Thanks Bigred, I've always wanted a booklet with a modeling section to download! Off to downloading!
joe
· 9 months ago
this is really cool. for your next effort maybe somthing chaos seeing as the cardenals got nerfed
Herald of Nurgle
· 9 months ago
Chaos. Lost and the Damned next A good, full job, minidex
Bigred
· 9 months ago
Ah, that is the rub... With AoD off my plate I can really dig into the Badab War campaign book, but I will need to take some suggestions on who gets the next mini-dex...
valhallan42nd
· 9 months ago
Don't reset the clock, whomever. That army died. Those whom shall not be named are dead and gone.
That being said, I think a LaTD is a good choice.
volrath8754
· 9 months ago
Man Daemon hunters / Witch Hunters / inquisition as a whole would be just amazing!!!!!!!!!! But great job on this minidex
Sathos
· 9 months ago
Daemon hunters/Witch hunters have "functional" full codexes, lets see some Ordos xenos love :)
joe
· 9 months ago
well world eaters would be a few tweaks to what you've done with AoD i would think. but i thinkyou could do some scary things with EC
Asymmetrical Xeno
· 9 months ago
Please please please please do something for a minor alien-race that isnt featured. Preferably a non-bipedal one. I'll be making an Umbra army in the next month or so, and writing an article on how to make them (they will be dead-easy to make and look great as well) - maybe one of you Bols guys would like to do rules for them along with the article im writing ? just a thought anyway.
cavalier1864
· 9 months ago
Actually, I think that this is a great suggestion, though there might not be sufficient material for a mini-dex of one minor threat. Maybe a mini-dex with something like Hrud, Tallarians, and Slaan would be definitely worthwhile. Alternately, doing a Squats mini-dex could be fun (one might surmise that a few of their fighting forces survived the Tyrannid Buffet).
Asymmetrical Xeno
· 9 months ago
I dunno, I reckon a ten-page mini-dex like this army of death one could work, but I think I prefer your idea of a selection of them instead.
Many can be converted like Hrud and Tallarians, and Squats arent that hard either. I mean, if they use Games-workshop parts - they will probably have appeal, especially to those looking for a unique secondary army or diversion from more mainstream material.
My Umbra army are going to be VERY easy to make, yet look striking. You can do alot with chaos and tyranid limbs mixed with various sizes of plastic marbles on flying bases ;)
Anonolley
· 9 months ago
The biggest design challenge in 40k.
Take Squats and make them work. Not demiurge or cyberslayers, either. Grinning, bike riding, conversion beamer packing, STC hoarding, plasma squad spamming, gyro-copter building, beer-drinking, Tyranid appetite fulfilling, RT-era Bob Olley Squats.
Anything less is a cop-out.
valhallan42nd
· 9 months ago
I'm sorry, but those died of the intergalalatic plague a few years back.
I hated them then, and I hate them now. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Silly no, grimdark, yes.
LEGION3000
· 9 months ago
RT era squats are dead. period. Reinvent the race as stunty starfarers, Universal recycleing pirates and they might have a shot. Take a look at the Grymm from Hasslefree miniatures. Best damn space dwarves ever.
Anonannoyed
· 9 months ago
The point is that GW is already looking at that sort of thing. Why do what's going to be done (if they can ever bother to stop pumping out Imperial armies), when you could help out a lot of old farts with lead poisoning?
Of course, it would terrible if all the oh-so-serious grown-up people playing with their widdle toy soldiers had to be reminded that the game IS silly fun.
Patzer
· 9 months ago
Anonannoyed 3 hours ago "Of course, it would terrible if all the oh-so-serious grown-up people playing with their widdle toy soldiers had to be reminded that the game IS silly fun."
Best comment, ever. And rather true, that.
Robert
· 9 months ago
this would probably be a big challenge, and i'm not even sure what you would use as a reference, but I would really like to see a rule set for the Exodite Eldar. While trying to decide on the character for my current Eldar army, I was asking local fluff experts tons of questions, and I kept getting referred to the Exodites (which no one here really had an idea how they fight)
AlmightyNocturnus
· 9 months ago
1. Tau 2. Eldar 3. Black Templars
These are the armies my Blood Angels need to get a little payback with. (Things just haven`t been the same since the White Dwarf Nerfing of 2007 and the coming of 5th Ed.). I now have the means to have my revenge! Time to slay!
anon
· 9 months ago
Reading it through now, just spotted something that appears unclear to me
the Hip-Shots rule is a really cool solution to the rage + heavy weapons problem, but the rule states that heavy weapons or rapid fire weapons can be counted as assault weapons.
Here perhaps you could insert an extra line that says they are counted as assault weapons with the same number of shots. Also, in the case of rapid fire weapons, which don't have a certain number of shots that can be converted, some extra clarification is needed, i.e. the model is allowed to fire the weapon as if it had not moved, and still assault in the following assault phase.
anon
· 9 months ago
also, the rule after this one, that weapons cannot be fired if they prevent a unit from charging is followed with the example that a tac squad can only fire its bolters as assault weapons if they are within 6''
Can someone explain this rule to me? I'm not sure how this works, or what scenarios it might apply in. Also not sure why firing from the hip would prevent a unit from charging, if they're firing assault weapons. Either they are in charge range, and will fire then charge, or they are out of range, and can't charge anyway. Going by the example, a unit can't fire from the hip whilst advancing if they are ever outside of 6'' from the target, even though they wouldn't be able to charge anyway.
The only explanation I have for this is target selection, where a player chooses a target outside of charge range so that he doesn't need to charge (can't charge a different unit to that which the unit fired upon). Is that the intended use?
grimsnikk
· 9 months ago
You can't use your BS 4 rapid fire weapons IF you could charge. IE, if you're within 6 inches. You could choose to use BS4 rapid fire instead of BS2 Assault if you were outside of assault range (say, 6.1 to 12 inches away)
You don't lose the ability to rapid fire, you just can't do it if you want to assault. The rule is also there to prevent people from rapid firing to avoid the drawback of the Rage rule.
static grass
· 9 months ago
Yes. If you are within 6" of a unit(s) then you must fire your weapons at that unit(s). If you instead fire your weapons at a unit more than 6" then you can not charge any units which is not allowed. You must fire in a manner that allows you to charge afterwards.
valhallan42nd
· 9 months ago
I loved that story re: the Flesh Tearers killing the orks and just not stopping. Those poor milita. Oh well, you can't make an omlette...
Really, that story is the reason I started them instead just redoing my blood angels.
rocketrollrebel
· 9 months ago
Thank you! I've been looking forward to this for a while! :)
Parcival
· 9 months ago
Awww, it's Christmas in my Blood Angels heart. =) Thank you, thank you, thank you! =)
Parcival
· 9 months ago
Okay, I am done reading through it and must say this is an excellently crafted document. There are some benefits carefully balanced with limitations, but all fit the Blood Angels fluff perfectly. =)
Snyderson
· 9 months ago
This piece of heaven so much reminds me of the good old Angels of Death... Thank you for this contribution!
whoopwhoop
· 9 months ago
bah, more smurf love
humbug
valhallan42nd
· 9 months ago
I think you are colorblind. UltraMarines are Smurfs, like bland potatos. Blood angels are red, like some spicy indian treat. Also like a spicy indian treat, they will go right through you.
Jek
· 9 months ago
About 8 years ago I picked up a boat load of marines off of ebay, not because I needed 2 whole battle companies, but because the price was right. Having finished off my Blood Angels company I still had over a company of unpainted marines left, a recently purchased chapter approved, and a few cans of black spray paint.
Long story short: It feels so deliciously wrong to paint up Death Company Devastators with lascannons you know they will be using more as clubs than as anything else.
Awesome 'dex guys. Keep up the good work!
TheGuyWhoNamedTrooperManson
· 9 months ago
Very awesome to see this, I for one have long felt that the Army of Death needed to stay in modern 40k. Great job, guys.
However, a couple problems immediately leaped out at me:
1. Librarians aren't in the army list on page 6 to show that they can have Furious Charge and must have FnP.
2. Captain Tycho now has Digital Weapons, a 5E Marines piece of equipment, but he still has the old sub-Captain WS of 5. This probably isn't too much of a problem since he now can re-roll wounds and already has Rending, but still feels a little weird (my friends and I play with house rules that all captains and CMs from Blood and Dark Angels get 5E stats and equipment). I'm guessing you guys probably already debated this and decided to go with the WS 5, so this probably isn't really a problem per se.
3. This also isn't a problem, but I do feel that Veteran Assault Marines in the Army of Death should get Heroic Intervention like Vanguard squads do. It just seems most appropriate for blood-crazed berserkers.
TheGuyWhoNamedTrooperManson
· 9 months ago
One more question:
Moriar the Chosen has D6+2 Attacks in his profile. Is this D6+2 or D6+2(3)? I ask because I'm assuming that Moriar gets +D6 instead of +D3 attacks because he's a Named Badass, and Furioso Dreadnoughts in the core BA rules get that extra +1A for having a second close combat weapon. So I was unsure.
Parcival
· 9 months ago
I understood it to be D6+2.
Savark
· 9 months ago
AAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH DAMN IT BIGRED!!! i now have to many choices of what army to collect next! Macharius crusade 4th army Inquistion pure steel legion blood angels
GOD DAMN IT
valhallan42nd
· 9 months ago
Army Painter red spray paint + baal red wash would probably hurry along your collecting of the Sons of Sangunius...
I don't know this for sure, but the old blood angels red spray + red ink worked for me back in the day...
faolan_conall
· 9 months ago
"For example, a tactical squad may only fire its bolters as BS:2 assault weapons if they were within 6” of an enemy unit."
RAGE rule doesn't compel a unit to RUN during the shooting phase.
pp76- Rage- "In the Shooting phase, they are free to decide whether to run"
Ergo, 6" should be changed to 12", methinks.
valhallan42nd
· 9 months ago
If they are more than 6 inches away, then they can rapid fire their bolters at bs 4. If they are withing 6 inches, they can fire their bolters at BS 2 so they can charge...
locky
· 9 months ago
OMG I LOVE YOU GUYS!!
ahm anyway cheers for this guys i am very appreciative(sp) and i cant wait to try it out ps i also hate you as i am now probably going to start collecting and i had just desided to finally stop buying models...sigh.
Rob Scott
· 9 months ago
It should be listed that in order of sundry worship:- The Emperor, Sanguinius and the design team of BoLS.
Many thanks for this great minidex have been waiting with eager anticipation since it was first announced.
Great work lads!
Trollzwei
· 9 months ago
INteresting take on things, enough to make me finish my BA army up.
faultie
· 9 months ago
Good stuff in there. If I played marines, I'd probably play these ones!
GoodOleBoy01
· 9 months ago
BLOODY MARVELOUS!!! I honestly think that ya'll need to print every BOLS post each month, bind it up as a magazine and send it out with the words WHITE DWARF on the cover. Ok, that'd probably land you in jail... but seriously... this is good stuff, cut from the same cloth as Chapter Approved IMHO.
faultie
· 9 months ago
As an aside: Rapid Fire weapons fired at BS2 from 12 inches would turn into Assault 1 or Assault 2? I.e., in Rapid Fire range, does the weapon jump up to Assault 2? That sounds a bit good.
Gorlak
· 9 months ago
That was my only slight confusion/question too. I assumed Assault 1 but not certain...
Azzy
· 9 months ago
Well, if you take the weapon profile and switch "Rapid Fire" to "Assault", it would simply be be "Assault 1" with a range of 24".
Bigred
· 9 months ago
Thanks guys for all the constructive comments (even the bad ones). I'm compiling a list of little corrections and typos, and will put up a v.1.1 later in the day.
No 6 month later FAQs for our minidexes... you get updated documents same day around here!
faolan_conall
· 9 months ago
Yeah, but you understand "customer service", which is even better since we're not paying customers!
If only all businesses were like you guys.
CT
· 9 months ago
Same day instead of some day... Totally Awesome! Thanks and keep up the good work!
Noserenda
· 9 months ago
Another good list from the BoLS team, im sure my housemate will be agitating to use this on me the second he sees it! One small thing though, I cant see any real reason to take devastator squads with their cost and reduced BS, but its a pretty small thing anyhow, dont think ive seen a Blood Angel Devestator Squad since they got codex Loyal World Eaters in 3rd Ed :D
Robert
· 9 months ago
i think it might be worthwhile to field devastators with either heavy bolters (decent rate of fire to mitigate the poor accuracy) or plasma cannons (if you can avoid them getting hot, the blasts mitigate the poor BS somewhat).
just according to keikaku
· 9 months ago
So how about those Saturday contest winners?
Gorlak
· 9 months ago
Fantastic release guys, been really looking forward to this - purely from a love of all things BA! Gamings dropped off for me but the background and modelling is still very much alive. This may change things though....!
Thanks again!
Bigred
· 9 months ago
UPDATE: v1.01 is up. Clarifications and typos fixed. -Librarian added to armylist chart -Hipshot at BS:2 for rapidfire weapons clarified as Assault:1 ...
valhallan42nd
· 9 months ago
Danke! Though, at that point, I'd rather just fire the bolt pistol...
krootman
· 9 months ago
I would have liked to see some vehicle rules for example all blood angels tanks have to move 12 inches toward the nearest enemy unit but can fire as if they all their weapons at bs2. Also if in able to the tank must tank shock if possible and inflicts d6 str 6 hits on any units it tank shocks and the vehicle can't shoot the turn it tank shocks.
I think something like that would have been cool
zanzibarthefirst
· 9 months ago
I am impressed with the rules for Tycho, he actually has the stats for a psycho captain although i'm not to sure about his special rule, does it inflict instant death and so models that are immune to instant death like daemons are Calgar are unaffected or is this an excpetion to the rule.
I would really like you to update Heresy ruleset to take in account 5th edition although I understand this would be quite difficult given traits have been replaced with special characters and chapter tactics although I guess it woudlnt be too bad having to field Kharn or Forrix all the time
Bigred
· 9 months ago
Tycho's power is NOT Instant Death. There is no protection from it aside from being a vehicle or monstrous creature.
Tycho is on foot however, so just keep your distance with your valuable HQs or feed him scrubs and you'll be OK. If you get unlucky and Tycho finds himself in assault with your Abaddon model, you will be kicking yourself the next morning :)
locky
· 9 months ago
hey big you wight want to make that bs2 rapid assulat 2 otherwise you can just fire the bolt pistol at bs4 and get the same effect
Bigred
· 9 months ago
But the rest of the weapons statline does not change. So while moving, bolters become BS:2 R:24" S:4 AP:5 Assault 1 weapons. Use them for hitting distant targets, and use the pistol shots up close and personal.
Dropfall
· 9 months ago
Why, oh why, have you gone with a ridiculous load of rules for Hip-shooting when you could have just said all those with the Black Rage have the Relentless USR at BS2 (or BS1)?
locky
· 9 months ago
ok cheers mate now i get it so between 12-6 inches you can fire twice at bs4 and 6-1 inches its once and bs4 with 12 inch range or once at 24 at bs2. just wondering though arent you only alowed to assualt what you shoot? so if you shoot once at a target 24 inches away you cant assualt a closer target right? if im missing something from 5th edd i appologise
locky
· 9 months ago
scratch this comment i get it now the b2 at 24 is meant for the approach.
dcver
· 9 months ago
Lets see a Harlequin minidex next! The Eldar need some love!
SinSynn
· 9 months ago
I guess I'll be the wet blanket around here and simply say this- As someone who doesn't play Space Marines [yet-I've got a vanilla 'home made' chapter in the works], and as someone who constantly sees red assaulty jump-marines chew up, spit out, and then urinate upon the corpses of my hapless Tau, I would never, ever, in a million years, play against someone who bought this ruleset to the table. Sorry. I think the Death Company is awful enough as it is. That one squad, 10 strong, with Lemartes to lead them, is a nightmare for me. Why on earth would I want to play against an army of 40 or so Feel No Pain and Furious Charging marines? I'm not a masochist [Or am I? I do play Tau...], so this 'fandex' is not gonna fly with me. Sorry.
locky
· 9 months ago
so you wont play against an army packing maybe 3 whole squads in the entire thing?
also DC especially in 5th arent OP their good, great even, and i love em to bits, but there are plenty of things out there that are worse. for example would you refuse to play against the nob bicker list because it insane? or would that be ok and GW has officiated its ridiculousy over poweredness. remember this list id designed as a GUIDE for NARRATIVE games so fine be up tight and whatever but its quite a ballanced list.
locky
· 9 months ago
just another quick note. this "fandex" as you put it is in all likely hood more playtested and ballanced than any of GW own codex especialy the latest ones.
SinSynn
· 9 months ago
That is so true...and so sad.....GW should spend more time balancing the codexes, even if they had to release a 'supplement' codex for an update every year or so, anything would help. Seriously. I agree that some armies do unbalance the game. The aforementioned infamous "nob Biker' list, Nidzilla, Flying Circus [Eldar Harlequinn list], 'Double Lash of Submission/Demon Prince' Chaos list, and even Raven Wing can be really, really rough for even a mech Tau player such as myself, or anyone, really. There's a reason a couple of those list dominate the top 50 finishers at every GT, and it's because those lists are unbalanced. I hate facing those lists. I don't want to face another, hence my objection to THIS fandex. I love some of the many, many Tau fandex-es, or whatever, available out there. The Tau fansites are filled with 'em, and some of them are well thought out, and presented proffesionally, as this one is. I would never expect my opponent to let me run a list from those 'Dex-es, 'cuz the fan-based bias always sneaks in somewhere. It's inevitable. Maybe this fandex isn't insanely unbalanced, but it's so specialized it's crazy. Which is fine for a 'scenario', but would be annoying to play as a pickup game. Like-"Oh jeez, it's the guy with the stabby jumpack list again. I'd rather play the Nidzilla list..." Great effort, and enjoyable reading, but again, not for me, thanx.
locky
· 9 months ago
fair enough mate and i could understand completely if someone tried to play a fandex in a pick up game i doubt id agree either though if he asked if i wanted to play it and gave me a week notice to familurise myself with it id give it a shot epecially if it was meant to be the crowning glory of a campaign like this is
Eric E
· 9 months ago
He's not being uptight, he just doesn't like the list. Its a fearless rending army that can throw down 60 or so marines that'll eat through just about any gunline army out there. What's not to love? I get that you love your death company. Not many people are that crazy about it. There's a reason there isn't a DC list legal in 5th edition....
Sathos
· 9 months ago
60 or so marines? in what an apoclypse list lol please dont take that as a direct insult to your comment I'm just remarking upon the fact that these are relatively high points cost, low number marines, given that I often field around 40 or so marines in a 1500 pointer 60 seems high :)
locky
· 9 months ago
i dont think you could fit 60 BA's into a list even if you took only tac squads.
Torg
· 9 months ago
Did not get a chance to look at it yet,but what I can see it looks pretty descent. Awesome work as always with these codexes
Hudson
· 9 months ago
Nice re-take. Love to see what you could do with the OX or the LaTD... might be best to wait until after May, however.
Andr1231
· 9 months ago
Just awesome. The black rage psychopath assault idea is what drew me into Blood Angels recently, and now I get to field an entire army of them! I can see these 'dex tying into the final Apocalypse game of a campaign, the former Blood Angels (now an Army of the Death) holding a gap against huge odds. Its such an epic idea! I never knew Games Workshop had any sort of list like this in the past, either. My kudos to you for a fluffy and fun list!
Eric E
· 9 months ago
To be honest there's one huge problem with the book. Rage is somewhat crippling It can be, however you give it a bypass with the Chaplain. Which brings us back to the "overpriced" Assault squads. However, they're not that overpriced and you can spam a lot of troop Assault Squads easily. Imagine running against this list at 1850 2x Chaplain +jump-pack 6x10 Assault Squads (7x Plasma pistols)
Sixty two jump pack assault marines, rending, fearless. I dont really care whats on the other side of the table. Its going to hit it and go right through it on turn two. The heavy weapon bit doesn't bother me. Bypassing Rage does. If the bypass only worked on the Chaplains squad that'd be a bit more fair. but the 12" bubble is silly.
Bigred
· 9 months ago
The Chaplains ability to minimize the effects of Rage are only for his unit. The 12" bubble is only for Brother-Captains.
Also all the officers don't allow Army of Death units to ignore rage, they still have to move directly towards enemies, just not the closest.
Sathos
· 9 months ago
aye I agree here that it should be tied to the Chaplain's squad only, even in the fluff...enraged or not space marines are bred as pureblood soldiers therefore they wont be concentrating on the chaplain from another squad a few hundred yards away, they will be focussed on their current objective and their own squad leader so no matter how shiny and wonderful the chaplain is, they wouldnt notice :)
Sathos
· 9 months ago
aaah, didnt see that post before I wrote mine, hehe
Azzy
· 9 months ago
Y'know, I just wanna field this army so I can yell "black rage" every time I play.
My only issue with that would be that it wouldn't be a mini Dex it would be a completely new codex unlike this masterpiece which draws heavily upon a parent codex
MechSpacewulf
· 8 months ago
Awesome.... thanks. Heard about this on 40K Radio!
Guta
· 8 months ago
hey i heard about this on 40k radio, so i came to get it.
Frostea
· 8 months ago
Some of the units here seems to be overpriced, imo. I.e. Tactical squads. These guys only have 1 base attack 'cept for the sarg. Even with rending, its kinda doubtful they can get back their pointage unless furious charge or/and FNP is given.
In that case, I would figure that they would be quickly slaughtered 'coz AP3 weapons seems to be the new fad with GW (Think hellguns, TS bolters, etc). Furthermore, the ability to use Combat Squads is removed, removing the tactical element with space marines (Read: The ability to run far away from that LR Redeemer)
This is all fine and dandy, 'coz it fits fluff. But gameplay-wise, I'd rather take an already overpriced GK marine than these AoD guys, simply coz they would be overall more effective. Some more tweaking is needed, imo.
What the?
· 9 months ago
While I like the concept, I think the rules are way unblanced and way over the top. By allowing them to fire whatever at BS2, you essentally made them into Orks with better armor and weapons. I mean, other than numbers, there isnt much difference. Well, except everything in this list rends.
This would of been better served by making the list mostly Death Company varient units with the actual Death Company rules. A Librarian whose attacks all cause instant death? Thats basically like having a Power Fist that hits at Initiative. Better actually because it can kill high toughness models with one hit. Surrround him with 3 Wraithlords and the Wraithlords dont stand a chance. Somethings very unbalanced about that. Very unbalanced. For crying out loud, he causes D3 wounds per hit vs. a Heirophant. A Tyranid Bio-Titan would be at a disadvantage against a measely Librarian? Are you serious?
Almost every single unit can get feel no pain and furious charge? I'm not even going to comment on that, I think that speaks for itself.
And to balance all this out you dont get any Death Company, Drop Pods, Combat Squads, Allies or Special Characters? Oh noes, I bet peeps are tore up about that. A disadvantage that doesnt impair you is in no way a disadvantage. No special characters rule is especially moot as you allow special characters from this codex. Wtf?
The point cost upgrades for the special abilities in no way make up for what your getting in return. All you doing is reducing the numbers a bit, but basically making every Joe Schmoe Marine into a movie marine.
Sorry if I sound too harsh, but I have to be totally honest about this one. This is the worste codex you've guys put out to date. The others were pretty decent, some real good, but this one is bottom of the barrel. I hope this next comment isnt too hurtful, its not meant to be, just completely honest, but I've seen better stuff come out of Warseers rule development forums than this codex. This appears to of been written by someone who absolutely loooooves Blood Angels and wants them to mop the floor with everyone. Kind of reminiscent of the 3e/4e Chaos codex. Way too many advantages for way too little disadvantages. I'm sorry, but this is the pits.
Forhekset
· 9 months ago
Page 2 - "The lists emphasis is very much on narrative games and shouldn't be used in competitive or tournament games."
ie, for fun.
What the?
· 9 months ago
Perhaps your idea of "fun" differs from mine. My idea of fun ivolves competition, which this list eliminates.
Forhekset
· 9 months ago
It's not my idea of fun, the list is just FOR fun. There's a difference.
As I pointed out, and you confirmed, it's not designed for what you consider an enjoyable experience, so your comments are pointless.
locky
· 9 months ago
heres another point with the added point costs your gonna be facing an army of not much more that 3 units
LordNurgle
· 9 months ago
i could totally see a crazed blood angel librarian climb onto the back of a hirophant and just cut it to pieces. heck, even jump into the things mouth and fight it's way out for the pure "joy" of it
Paul
· 9 months ago
sigh, there is always one.
Take your ball and go home...
What the?
· 9 months ago
Believed the author asked for critiques and comments, so I think the fanboys should go home.
Bigred
· 9 months ago
Thank you for the comments What the. I do read them, and put them into consideration.
Your reactions are exactly what our playtesters originally gave...then we made them play the list and their tune changed quickly.
What you can't see on paper is that Rage is a CRIPPLING ability, possibly the worst thing you can inflict on a unit, so the benefits have to be substantial to balance it out.
In your wraithlord example, it is the opposing players fault for putting 3 valuable units within charge range of the librarian, instead of screening them. The AoD units are already overpriced, and adding FNP and FC to key units will only further reduce your model count, so it has to be used very sparingly, or a good opponent will retrograde and blow a tiny Army of Death away.
In summary, the army has serious, serious disadvantages in a 5th edition environment, and only was viable on the table if given an overwhelming assault advantage once they made enemy lines.
But by all means, don't take my word for it, take some good old BAs off the shelf and have at it on the tabletop. You may be pleasantly surprised.
And again, thank you for the sincere comments. We can't get better without them.
What the?
· 9 months ago
I follow you on the rage, but would like to point out that rage is designed to force you to use the unit in an assault format. What you did with your codex is take away the drawback by allowing them to shoot (with Heavy Weapons no less) and still keep moving closer to the enemy to assault with furious charge, feel no pain, power armor and rending. Now that doesnt sound like overkill to you? I mean, it sounds ridiculous to me, no offense.
Matthew Rider
· 9 months ago
Well you can think what you want- but I think what has been made here is brilliant- you can have power armour rending feel no pain and furious charge- but it doesn't change the fact that they can be easily killed with missiles and the like- which is what you take against any marine army if you have any sense lol
valhallan42nd
· 9 months ago
You obviously never led Khorne Berzerkers on a merry chase with a land speeder.
LEGION3000
· 9 months ago
If you have to resort to lame rules tricks to beat what is supposed to be a _fluff based_ army, then that isn't very fluffy now is it?
Azzy
· 9 months ago
"Sounds" and "plays" are two different things. Why not take Red's advice and actually play a few games with the army before making any conclusions about the army being ridiculous. Experience trumps theory every time.
Xas
· 9 months ago
normal measy-peasy instant death doesnt cause d3 wounds to bio-titans. only special "i remove everything, including greater deamons with 1 strike" stuff does d3 wounds to biotitans.
and still that libby would need 6s to wound a wrathlord (s4 vs t8 cant wound but he has rending) so not that bad!
What the?
· 9 months ago
All it takes is one wound and bye bye Wraithlord. As far as the Bio-titan is concerned, its specifically mentions force weapons in the part about the d3 wounds.
smurfhater
· 9 months ago
thats when if even one wraithlord survives it then squishes you and moves on
LEGION3000
· 9 months ago
While everyone on here is probably going to call you an A-hole for not being a sychophantic fanboy I will at least stand up for the theory of your arguments if not your exact words. Remember a spoon Full of sugar helps the medicine go down.
I agree that this Dex more than any other is leaning towards the insanely overpowered side of things. I remember a couple months ago reading about the rules they were trying for Tycho and thinking they were stupid and over the top. Apparently that is what they were going for with the whole Dex.
I can't really blame them though. Just by reading Goatboys articles you can tell their playtest group is a bunch of super munchkins. So they can't really help but come out with megapower fanboy lists. I am sure this army would stack up evenly with 2 lashprinces, 3 units of plaguemarines with meltas, 2 defilers, and a bunch of oblits, or the ubiquitous nob biker list du jour.
WhatThe
· 9 months ago
Bingo. BOLS is now a cheesefest. From Goatboy on down, or up.
Back in the day, BOLS made a name for itself with the Horus Heresy campaign, since then, they just seem to going down, and down. Goatboy's articles are the worst of the worst.
Thank god I will never meet these meatballs on the field of battle. "0" for sportsmanship.
Patzer
· 9 months ago
If you don't like it don't troll this site. Your posts bore me already. Move along and let the adults play.
WhatThe
· 9 months ago
u r teh suxxxor!
Patzer
· 9 months ago
Whatever, man. Please don't come back. No one will miss you.
GuyLeDouche
· 9 months ago
It's a shame that you are hooked up to that machine that shoots large amounts of electrical current into your body if you do not visit this site. Oh wait, you arent. If you dislike their work, don't bother coming around.
Patzer
· 9 months ago
That's really funny. Because I am hooked up to the great electrical BOLS machine! Douche.
All Comments
A good, full job, minidex
That being said, I think a LaTD is a good choice.
But great job on this minidex
Many can be converted like Hrud and Tallarians, and Squats arent that hard either. I mean, if they use Games-workshop parts - they will probably have appeal, especially to those looking for a unique secondary army or diversion from more mainstream material.
This guy did Hruds and Tallarians very well :
http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showt...
http://www.wargamerau.com/forum/index.php?showt...
My Umbra army are going to be VERY easy to make, yet look striking. You can do alot with chaos and tyranid limbs mixed with various sizes of plastic marbles on flying bases ;)
Take Squats and make them work. Not demiurge or cyberslayers, either. Grinning, bike riding, conversion beamer packing, STC hoarding, plasma squad spamming, gyro-copter building, beer-drinking, Tyranid appetite fulfilling, RT-era Bob Olley Squats.
Anything less is a cop-out.
I hated them then, and I hate them now. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Silly no, grimdark, yes.
Of course, it would terrible if all the oh-so-serious grown-up people playing with their widdle toy soldiers had to be reminded that the game IS silly fun.
Best comment, ever. And rather true, that.
These are the armies my Blood Angels need to get a little payback with. (Things just haven`t been the same since the White Dwarf Nerfing of 2007 and the coming of 5th Ed.). I now have the means to have my revenge! Time to slay!
the Hip-Shots rule is a really cool solution to the rage + heavy weapons problem, but the rule states that heavy weapons or rapid fire weapons can be counted as assault weapons.
Here perhaps you could insert an extra line that says they are counted as assault weapons with the same number of shots. Also, in the case of rapid fire weapons, which don't have a certain number of shots that can be converted, some extra clarification is needed, i.e. the model is allowed to fire the weapon as if it had not moved, and still assault in the following assault phase.
Can someone explain this rule to me? I'm not sure how this works, or what scenarios it might apply in. Also not sure why firing from the hip would prevent a unit from charging, if they're firing assault weapons. Either they are in charge range, and will fire then charge, or they are out of range, and can't charge anyway. Going by the example, a unit can't fire from the hip whilst advancing if they are ever outside of 6'' from the target, even though they wouldn't be able to charge anyway.
The only explanation I have for this is target selection, where a player chooses a target outside of charge range so that he doesn't need to charge (can't charge a different unit to that which the unit fired upon). Is that the intended use?
You don't lose the ability to rapid fire, you just can't do it if you want to assault. The rule is also there to prevent people from rapid firing to avoid the drawback of the Rage rule.
Really, that story is the reason I started them instead just redoing my blood angels.
Thank you for this contribution!
humbug
Long story short: It feels so deliciously wrong to paint up Death Company Devastators with lascannons you know they will be using more as clubs than as anything else.
Awesome 'dex guys. Keep up the good work!
However, a couple problems immediately leaped out at me:
1. Librarians aren't in the army list on page 6 to show that they can have Furious Charge and must have FnP.
2. Captain Tycho now has Digital Weapons, a 5E Marines piece of equipment, but he still has the old sub-Captain WS of 5. This probably isn't too much of a problem since he now can re-roll wounds and already has Rending, but still feels a little weird (my friends and I play with house rules that all captains and CMs from Blood and Dark Angels get 5E stats and equipment). I'm guessing you guys probably already debated this and decided to go with the WS 5, so this probably isn't really a problem per se.
3. This also isn't a problem, but I do feel that Veteran Assault Marines in the Army of Death should get Heroic Intervention like Vanguard squads do. It just seems most appropriate for blood-crazed berserkers.
Moriar the Chosen has D6+2 Attacks in his profile. Is this D6+2 or D6+2(3)? I ask because I'm assuming that Moriar gets +D6 instead of +D3 attacks because he's a Named Badass, and Furioso Dreadnoughts in the core BA rules get that extra +1A for having a second close combat weapon. So I was unsure.
DAMN IT BIGRED!!!
i now have to many choices of what army to collect next!
Macharius crusade 4th army
Inquistion
pure steel legion
blood angels
GOD DAMN IT
I don't know this for sure, but the old blood angels red spray + red ink worked for me back in the day...
RAGE rule doesn't compel a unit to RUN during the shooting phase.
pp76- Rage- "In the Shooting phase, they are free to decide whether to run"
Ergo, 6" should be changed to 12", methinks.
ahm anyway cheers for this guys i am very appreciative(sp) and i cant wait to try it out
ps i also hate you as i am now probably going to start collecting and i had just desided to finally stop buying models...sigh.
Many thanks for this great minidex have been waiting with eager anticipation since it was first announced.
Great work lads!
No 6 month later FAQs for our minidexes... you get updated documents same day around here!
If only all businesses were like you guys.
Thanks again!
Clarifications and typos fixed.
-Librarian added to armylist chart
-Hipshot at BS:2 for rapidfire weapons clarified as Assault:1
...
I think something like that would have been cool
I would really like you to update Heresy ruleset to take in account 5th edition although I understand this would be quite difficult given traits have been replaced with special characters and chapter tactics although I guess it woudlnt be too bad having to field Kharn or Forrix all the time
Tycho is on foot however, so just keep your distance with your valuable HQs or feed him scrubs and you'll be OK. If you get unlucky and Tycho finds himself in assault with your Abaddon model, you will be kicking yourself the next morning :)
As someone who doesn't play Space Marines [yet-I've got a vanilla 'home made' chapter in the works], and as someone who constantly sees red assaulty jump-marines chew up, spit out, and then urinate upon the corpses of my hapless Tau, I would never, ever, in a million years, play against someone who bought this ruleset to the table. Sorry. I think the Death Company is awful enough as it is. That one squad, 10 strong, with Lemartes to lead them, is a nightmare for me. Why on earth would I want to play against an army of 40 or so Feel No Pain and Furious Charging marines? I'm not a masochist [Or am I? I do play Tau...], so this 'fandex' is not gonna fly with me. Sorry.
also DC especially in 5th arent OP their good, great even, and i love em to bits, but there are plenty of things out there that are worse. for example would you refuse to play against the nob bicker list because it insane? or would that be ok and GW has officiated its ridiculousy over poweredness. remember this list id designed as a GUIDE for NARRATIVE games so fine be up tight and whatever but its quite a ballanced list.
I agree that some armies do unbalance the game. The aforementioned infamous "nob Biker' list, Nidzilla, Flying Circus [Eldar Harlequinn list], 'Double Lash of Submission/Demon Prince' Chaos list, and even Raven Wing can be really, really rough for even a mech Tau player such as myself, or anyone, really. There's a reason a couple of those list dominate the top 50 finishers at every GT, and it's because those lists are unbalanced. I hate facing those lists. I don't want to face another, hence my objection to THIS fandex. I love some of the many, many Tau fandex-es, or whatever, available out there. The Tau fansites are filled with 'em, and some of them are well thought out, and presented proffesionally, as this one is. I would never expect my opponent to let me run a list from those 'Dex-es, 'cuz the fan-based bias always sneaks in somewhere. It's inevitable. Maybe this fandex isn't insanely unbalanced, but it's so specialized it's crazy. Which is fine for a 'scenario', but would be annoying to play as a pickup game. Like-"Oh jeez, it's the guy with the stabby jumpack list again. I'd rather play the Nidzilla list..."
Great effort, and enjoyable reading, but again, not for me, thanx.
I get that you love your death company. Not many people are that crazy about it. There's a reason there isn't a DC list legal in 5th edition....
please dont take that as a direct insult to your comment I'm just remarking upon the fact that these are relatively high points cost, low number marines, given that I often field around 40 or so marines in a 1500 pointer 60 seems high :)
Awesome work as always with these codexes
Rage is somewhat crippling It can be, however you give it a bypass with the Chaplain. Which brings us back to the "overpriced" Assault squads. However, they're not that overpriced and you can spam a lot of troop Assault Squads easily. Imagine running against this list at 1850
2x Chaplain +jump-pack
6x10 Assault Squads
(7x Plasma pistols)
Sixty two jump pack assault marines, rending, fearless. I dont really care whats on the other side of the table. Its going to hit it and go right through it on turn two. The heavy weapon bit doesn't bother me. Bypassing Rage does. If the bypass only worked on the Chaplains squad that'd be a bit more fair. but the 12" bubble is silly.
Also all the officers don't allow Army of Death units to ignore rage, they still have to move directly towards enemies, just not the closest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMCki0Z_AlA
In that case, I would figure that they would be quickly slaughtered 'coz AP3 weapons seems to be the new fad with GW (Think hellguns, TS bolters, etc). Furthermore, the ability to use Combat Squads is removed, removing the tactical element with space marines (Read: The ability to run far away from that LR Redeemer)
This is all fine and dandy, 'coz it fits fluff. But gameplay-wise, I'd rather take an already overpriced GK marine than these AoD guys, simply coz they would be overall more effective. Some more tweaking is needed, imo.
This would of been better served by making the list mostly Death Company varient units with the actual Death Company rules. A Librarian whose attacks all cause instant death? Thats basically like having a Power Fist that hits at Initiative. Better actually because it can kill high toughness models with one hit. Surrround him with 3 Wraithlords and the Wraithlords dont stand a chance. Somethings very unbalanced about that. Very unbalanced. For crying out loud, he causes D3 wounds per hit vs. a Heirophant. A Tyranid Bio-Titan would be at a disadvantage against a measely Librarian? Are you serious?
Almost every single unit can get feel no pain and furious charge? I'm not even going to comment on that, I think that speaks for itself.
And to balance all this out you dont get any Death Company, Drop Pods, Combat Squads, Allies or Special Characters? Oh noes, I bet peeps are tore up about that. A disadvantage that doesnt impair you is in no way a disadvantage. No special characters rule is especially moot as you allow special characters from this codex. Wtf?
The point cost upgrades for the special abilities in no way make up for what your getting in return. All you doing is reducing the numbers a bit, but basically making every Joe Schmoe Marine into a movie marine.
Sorry if I sound too harsh, but I have to be totally honest about this one. This is the worste codex you've guys put out to date. The others were pretty decent, some real good, but this one is bottom of the barrel. I hope this next comment isnt too hurtful, its not meant to be, just completely honest, but I've seen better stuff come out of Warseers rule development forums than this codex. This appears to of been written by someone who absolutely loooooves Blood Angels and wants them to mop the floor with everyone. Kind of reminiscent of the 3e/4e Chaos codex. Way too many advantages for way too little disadvantages. I'm sorry, but this is the pits.
ie, for fun.
As I pointed out, and you confirmed, it's not designed for what you consider an enjoyable experience, so your comments are pointless.
Take your ball and go home...
Your reactions are exactly what our playtesters originally gave...then we made them play the list and their tune changed quickly.
What you can't see on paper is that Rage is a CRIPPLING ability, possibly the worst thing you can inflict on a unit, so the benefits have to be substantial to balance it out.
In your wraithlord example, it is the opposing players fault for putting 3 valuable units within charge range of the librarian, instead of screening them. The AoD units are already overpriced, and adding FNP and FC to key units will only further reduce your model count, so it has to be used very sparingly, or a good opponent will retrograde and blow a tiny Army of Death away.
In summary, the army has serious, serious disadvantages in a 5th edition environment, and only was viable on the table if given an overwhelming assault advantage once they made enemy lines.
But by all means, don't take my word for it, take some good old BAs off the shelf and have at it on the tabletop. You may be pleasantly surprised.
And again, thank you for the sincere comments. We can't get better without them.
and still that libby would need 6s to wound a wrathlord (s4 vs t8 cant wound but he has rending) so not that bad!
I agree that this Dex more than any other is leaning towards the insanely overpowered side of things. I remember a couple months ago reading about the rules they were trying for Tycho and thinking they were stupid and over the top. Apparently that is what they were going for with the whole Dex.
I can't really blame them though. Just by reading Goatboys articles you can tell their playtest group is a bunch of super munchkins. So they can't really help but come out with megapower fanboy lists. I am sure this army would stack up evenly with 2 lashprinces, 3 units of plaguemarines with meltas, 2 defilers, and a bunch of oblits, or the ubiquitous nob biker list du jour.
Back in the day, BOLS made a name for itself with the Horus Heresy campaign, since then, they just seem to going down, and down. Goatboy's articles are the worst of the worst.
Thank god I will never meet these meatballs on the field of battle. "0" for sportsmanship.