On a completely unrelated note: What does 'Lufgt' actually /mean/? Is it just a random jumble of consonants with the complimentary vowel thrown in for taste, or does it have a background? I mean, from over here it looks rather like one of these fancy German acronyms to me. You know, like "SdKfz", "PzKPfw" or "GröFaZ".. So, Herr Huron might acually be "LuFgT Huron", meaning LuftFliegenTerror, LumineszenzFingerTorch or LumpenFregattTölpel. Or not.
Bren
· 4 months ago
Luftgitarre!
Benjamin Savarese
· 4 months ago
ok I wont lie...
I am going to like this one a lot...haha
guarsman001
· 4 months ago
i am gonna like this one as well... all it missing is ig!!!!!!!
BlueRonin
· 4 months ago
It sure looks great! I look forward to seeing models painted in the Badab schemes!
1000_and_1_Sons
· 4 months ago
Hmm, so Huron gets one more attack (possibly w/ fleet and I 10) and loses the heavy flamer and the possibility for re-rolls. He is no longer fearless but gains stubborn (+ gives it to most of the army), orbital bombardment, and gets a ~17% better chance at seizing the initiative.
Lol, Huron may not be as much as a beast in close combat as we are used to, but he'll still pack a punch and provide the majority of the army with it as well. I'm sure you guys put more playtesting into that than GW usually does. In any event, this campaign book will be a fun way to finish out the summer, kudos to BoLS!
Mindless_Focus
· 4 months ago
So, I have been looking forward to this for a while. Am currently working on a Astral Claws army myself. Was thinking about waiting until the space wolf codex to come out as i think that would suite them the best. this is definitely a must have. everything looks great. when is the projected release window?
Tariq_Jakobsen
· 4 months ago
Looking good as allways BOLS! Im very impressed with the high quality of the layout you guys are able to do. Looking on the layout as a graphic designer (thats what I am) there´s a minor issue though, you should pull the text a lot closer to the bulletpoints. Perhaps even add 1 mm in front of the bulletpoint. You will see that it will make the textimage more coherent and smoother looking. Otherwise, keep up the good work!
Cheers from Denmark
thetruemooseman
· 4 months ago
Axe is spelled wrong ;P
BitzBoxRob
· 4 months ago
WOW WOW WOW!!!! this is so awesome I love this. since the first mention of the Badab conflict back in the compendium I was interested. You guys are showing what fans can do to add to the hobby. THANK YOU BOLS!
PlasmaBomb
· 4 months ago
ax is correctly spelt axe...
Name
· 4 months ago
Actually, 'ax' is a correct alternative spelling of the word, albeit a bit archaic and rarely used nowadays. Granted, English is not my first language, but I've been studying English philology and linguistics for a bit now, so you can trust me on that (I double-checked it anyway) ;-)
Uthor
· 4 months ago
Ax is the main spelling, Axe is the alternative spelling of the word.
Writing on linguistics in the Bulletin (13 July 1982) Australian publisher Max Harris once posed the question: “which is the Americanism, ‘ax’ or ‘axe’?”
“Answer: neither. Tricked you. Ax was the preferred Oxford spelling in the late 19th century. The Brits switched to axe. The Americans stayed traditional.”
The editors of Webster's International Dictionary noted:
This word was originally spelt with e, axe, and so also was nearly every corresponding word of one syllable, as flaxe, waxe, sixe, mixe, pixe, oxe, fluxe, etc. This superfluous e is now dropped, so that, in more than a hundred words ending in x, no one thinks of retaining the e except in axe. Analogy requires its exclusion here.
The Oxford English Dictionary, as Harlish Goop writes in Bikwil (July 1998), was published in parts from 1884 until completed in 1928. It later restored the “e” to axe, even though Oxford editor James Murray himself believed that “The spelling ax is better on every ground, of etymology, phonology, and analogy, than axe, which has of late become prevalent.” However, to this day for “criticise/criticize” (and for that matter, “Americanise/Americanize”, “authorise/authorize”, and many of the words with these endings) Oxford dictionaries favour “ize” and describe “ise” as a variant.
Looks awesome have been eagerly awaiting this campaign book. Looks like you guys are doing a great job keep it up....
Tristan
· 4 months ago
Really.. REALLY looking forward to seeing this mini-dex. Good work gents.
kauyon_la
· 4 months ago
Don't really like him too much but this just gets me even more pumped to see what the other armies Chapter Tactics are gonna be (yes, Mantis Warriors we will be together soon).
KINGS
· 4 months ago
Mantis Warriors are one of the better chapters... you will like the Tranquility Sniper Squad. I should know, I wrote the rules and am also a member of the chapter... ;)
~kings
clkeagle
· 4 months ago
Absolutely love the design of the Corsair squads. I hope the Executioners get something simple... I'm building mine completely from Rogue Trader plastics, with the chainaxe-bayonets on all the bolters.
Ax/Axe has already been pointed out, but the other thing that caught my eye was the "tiger striping" on the large marine. If detail lines are completey "under" the tiger stripes, especially at the shoulder pad rims and abdomen armor, then the stripes look like pieces of construction paper glued to the armor, rather than the paint scheme. I know how hard it is to put camo/stripes/anything on those B&C-Painter marines, but it would make all the difference.
Cpt Vineum
· 4 months ago
WOW Gief this Minidex!
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
ATSKNF for a traitor chapter? You know the ATSKNF comes from their faith in the Emperor and they lose that when going traitor right? May want to re-think that.
Sergeant_Uriel_Ventris
· 4 months ago
Erm... it also comes from their superior training and hypno-conditioning. Besides, this is before they go all Chaosy, so they shouldn't be that different from Loyalists.
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
Hypno-conditioning and superior training(ie, ideological conditioning) in trusting the Emperor you mean? Your making my point.
Sergeant_Uriel_Ventris
· 4 months ago
No, I'm not. Faith in the Emperor is one thing. Faith in your training, your battle brothers, and yourself is something else all together. Becoming separated from the Emperor does not negate any of the things I mentioned.
khanaris
· 4 months ago
But Chaos Space Marines are no less trained than loyalists, and they aren't all back-stabbing amongst themselves. They have effectively had a lot more training in most cases, since they tend to be older.
ATSKNF is not just some feel-good idea of martial courage. It is tied to the role Space Marines place within the culture of the Imperium. If they reject the Emperor and fight only for the chapter, they will lose that place. And in that case the rules represent them better with high leadership and/or stubborn. Following the Emperor does give loyalist marines a strength that renegades lack. The Astral Claws shouldn't have it unless you were representing them pre-fall.
Sergeant_Uriel_Ventris
· 4 months ago
I thought the the Astral Claws, as represented by this list, had just fallen away form the Imperium. It would take a little while for their training and mindset to change.
Frankly, I don't care, I don't live in Texas and I can't play with the BoLSers.
khanaris
· 4 months ago
But in that case, the change would have had to have started earlier. I don't think they just woke up one morning and decided the Emperor wasn't for them...
As I see it, the moment they chose to betray their oaths would be the moment the rules used to represent them would change. The effect their changing priorities would have on their training and mindset would have had to have begun far earlier.
Myu
· 4 months ago
I think it's because they are totally convinced in their independence, righteousness, etc initially and then their minds turn to slag as Chaos sets in.
Sathos
· 4 months ago
ATSKNF is fine for the Astral claws. Also remember that this is the Badab campaign setting, do you think that because they change their chapter name they will suddenly be afraid of everything? At this point (and as far as I am generally aware) although they turn their back on the emperor they arent strictly speaking "chaos" marines, they are renegade which would definitely allow for extra "interpretation" space.
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
It has nothing to do with their chapter name (no idea where you even got that from). It has everything to do with their psychological outlook. The ATSKNF comes from the hypno-therapy, psychic conditioning and ideological conditioning they go through. Its further re-enforced through their constant immersion in the Imperial creed. This is further supported by the fact that Chaplains make them fearless while Commanders don't. The Chaplains main role is re-enforcing their ideology, hence going from almost fearless to totally fearless based on fluff.
Sathos
· 4 months ago
Oh dear oh dear... I didnt say it had anything specifically to do with their chapter name. What I said is it would be fine for the Astral Claws ie: LOYALIST marines at the precipice of turning traitor.... what to add... fail? ...duh? ....nah I'll just leave it there lol
khanaris
· 4 months ago
Despite the name, ATSKNF is not really about being afraid. It is more a question of selfishness vs. selflessness. The reason the Astral Claws fell seems to be related to their priorities. Thye put more value on their own survival, so they are less likely to hang around in a losing fight, or to return to one after breaking. They just have less motivation to do so without the idea of the Emperor's judgment hanging over them.
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
Uhhh...re-read your post, You did indeed tried to claim it had something to do with changing their chapter name. I never said anything about it. It came from your post, not mine. And they were not Loyalist marines at the precipice. They were renegades. I mean, it was them vs. Imperium which means renegade by defintion. Should I add fail or duh?
BeastOfShadow
· 4 months ago
It was a rethorical question about how because they changed their name (mark of going renagade in this case) they all of a sudden lose the training and conditioning they've recieved. I think that's what it was anyway :)
Forhekset
· 4 months ago
It's got nothing to do with faith in the Emperor, in fact Space Marines rarely consider the Emperor in a religious way whatsoever. They respect and adore him on a more militaristic sort of level, and as the fact that the Emperor was such a mighty warrior himself. They have 'faith' in him insofar as he is their leader, not because they consider him a god.
In fact I even read in a book recently that it's specifcally related to the fact that their gene-seed is extracted and so even if they die, their chapter shall never suffer a real loss. But I don't think that's a belief everyone has.
Anonymous
· 4 months ago
"They respect and adore him on a more militaristic sort of level, and as the fact that the Emperor was such a mighty warrior himself."
Don't forget their love for him as a patriarch.
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
Thats totally wrong. It has everything to do with faith in the Emperor. Faith does not = religion. You can have faith you will pass a school test, does that mean its your religion now? Faith in the Emperor is really faith in the Emperor's cause, his ideology. They are rigorously trained through normal means to believe in it, then further enhanced through chemical and psychic means. Their gene seed has nothing to do with it. CSM have gene seed too, why dont they have ATSKNF? Because they no longer have faith in the Emperor and his ideology. Its selfishness at its heart and explains why given enough pressure, they break and run. Of course, you have cult Marines who are fearless, but they replaced their faith in the Emperor with faith in the Chaos Gods. Its as obvious as a nose on a face. When the Astral Claws go renegade (which is why there was even a Badab war in the first place) means they no longer believe in the Emperors creed and therefore are following their own selfish motives, which they are not likely to want to die fighting for. ATSKNF makes zero sense for Astral Claws after they go renegade.
khanaris
· 4 months ago
This is right, but it is also why it is important not to confuse the various definitions of the word "faith". Sometimes it is used as a synonym for "confidence", and sometimes it has religious overtones of belief and veneration. In the case of the Space Marines, it is more like a religion than like confidence. But ATSKNF definitely represents a selfless warrior ethic, so renegade chapters should use Fearless or Stubborn instead.
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
I could accept that. I think CSM codex represents it well. The standard renegades are lost and so can break given pressure, unless they are fully pledged to a Chaos God where they are then fearless.
KINGS
· 4 months ago
You are making some good points about why Space Marines have ATSKNF and why Chaos Marines/Renegade Marines do not. However you are missing the point of the Badab War and the time frame in which it took place. The four “bad chapters” involved during the war were not traitors, at worst they were rebels. Hurron (when you read his fluff in the campaign book) is the only Chaos influenced individual in the entire war, everyone else is still fighting for the Imperium, while Hurron is fighting for his own Ambition (thus the special rule).
This is why the three of the four chapters eventually surrender and were not excommunicated; they were still loyal to the Emperor the entire time. The Mantis Warriors for instance fought for their Autonomy as a Space Marine Chapter, not because they were Chaos worshipers. Even the Astral Claws were not Chaos; they were following their Chapter Master. Of course when backed into a corner with no place else to go, Hurron was forced to flee into the Malestrom to become a renegade chapter at the END OF THE WAR.
If this does not convince you, let’s just say from a rule prospective; it is much easier if all the armies are based off of the SM codex and not some hybrid of rules.
Cheers, ~kings
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
No, I dont think we are disagreeing at all. The other three should have it. They were misled and misguided, not renegade. The Astral Claws however, are renegade. They knew what they were doing. A rejection of the Imperial creed. Thats why it shouldn't apply to the Astral Claws. The only thing I think we differ on really, is when they went renegade. Reading the fluff, I think its earlier rather than later. They were renegade almost from the get go, not after they fled. I don't really think you need hybrid rules for them. You could do a pretty good job using standard CSM rules, just stay away from the more daemonic and chaos stuff, and stick to the generic, renegade stuff. You could do a nice job of it like that.
KINGS
· 4 months ago
The hybrid would be that they could include SM vehicles and then some chaos troops. This would require much more playtesting and a long list of units alowed from each codex.
This way they follow the same template as all the other chapters involved. 1special character with chapter tactics and one special unit type.
~kings
Crevab
· 4 months ago
Has this been written or even suggested in any GW material? Or is this just your reasoning about the rules differences between loyalist and chaos?
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
Specifically written? I can't say for certain, but IMHO, its certainly been suggested. I can remember back in the day when they provided more fluff material when it either alluded to or simply stated they were fearless due to their unwavering faith in th Emperor. Currently, the C:SM only gives game rules and no fluff under ATSKNF. I haven't dug out any old material to check it, but there may be something there. Secondly, if you read C:CSM on page 6, it seems to allude to this as well, where as it mentions specifically becoming independent and how when a SM falls from grace, he falls further than would a normal man, etc, etc. What do you think? This is what I've always felt was the biggest distinguishing mark between a SM and a renegade. The faith in the Emperor and the heroism it drives loyalists to.
BoLedOver
· 4 months ago
But, if we go on ATSKNF as faith in the Emperor, how does one explain the Fallen, who, in the only character written for them, retains ATSKNF, and further the CSM with him retain it as well?
I'd say that, during the Badab War, the Astral Claws fall under the same heading. They haven't gone renegade enough to lose their faith, but they're definitely not on the same side as the others.
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
And what character are you referring to? As far as I know, there is no official fallen character in 5e and further there are no renegades with ATSKNF, thats reserved for loyalists.
Miami
· 4 months ago
Cypher. And just because he isn't "tournament legal" doesn't mean he never existed. He is the only example GW has published for the game (ie, with stats and rules) of a non-chaos renegade marine. And he has ATSKNF.
As a side note, I commonly play against a player who chooses to use Cypher. His rules work a little better in 5th Edition than they did in 4th if you view victory points and kill points as being one in the same.
brotherwill
· 4 months ago
And since he hasn't been updated to 5e rules means he currently doesn't exist in game. He does in fluff, but not in game. Otherwise, I could simply pull out a Rogue Trader rule (1e) character that was never updated and use him. So what if he has WS10, BS10, S10, T6, I10, A9, W8 for a Space Marine right? I mean, just because he doesn't have 5e rules we have to go with his old rules right? Sorry bud, it doesn't work that way and I in no way said anything about tournies. I'm talking current edition. Besides, his rules aren't even 4e, they are 3e. Good luck convincing someone to let you use him. As it stands, NO Traitor Marine has ATSKNF. They update rules to a new addition for a reason.
EmperorsWrath
· 4 months ago
Tiger Claws (Astral Claws) chapter color scheme is black armor with jagged orange stripes outlined in white. Not sure why you have changed this.
MarcusZ
· 4 months ago
Ultramarines are supposed to have ultramarine colored armor, but not even Games Workshop paints them this way any more. So what is all the fuzz about the slightly changed color scheme? Don't forget, we are no longer in the decade of flashing colors and bad taste (aka the 1980s). If GW would paint some Astral Claws now, they would pretty much look a lot more like this "new" scheme from BoLS rather than like the old "cartoony" one.
EmperorsWrath
· 4 months ago
"Ultramarines are supposed to have ultramarine colored armor"
Where has it ever said that? Ultramarines have always been blue.
"but not even Games Workshop paints them this way any more."
Slightly different blue variants over the years, but still blue.
"So what is all the fuzz about the slightly changed color scheme?"
I think you meant "fuss", but it's because the colors have been defined and what is being shown does not match with what's been defined.
"Don't forget, we are no longer in the decade of flashing colors and bad taste (aka the 1980s)."
Rogue Trader was published in 1987 but all of the horrid red swords / red bolters are from 2nd edition in the 90's.
"If GW would paint some Astral Claws now, they would pretty much look a lot more like this "new" scheme from BoLS rather than like the old "cartoony" one."
So, like that's your opinion, man, but it still doesn't explain the yellow. My question stands ... why change it? We could all just make stuff up out of our arses if we wanted to: "well I think the Dark Angels are purple", but it would be silly to think that you wouldn't get called on it.
Aventine
· 4 months ago
You're really going to go crazy when you see the full book, there are at least three different versions of their colour scheme. bigred's seen here, the artists seen previously, plus a Marine I painted for the colour plate section. All different, hah...
Aventine
· 4 months ago
They are just interpretations and modernizations of what is a pretty sad, tired old colour scheme. Though I do like mine better than this one... :)
KINGS
· 4 months ago
I dont :P j/k
aventine's is how I always picutred them in my mind.
~kings
Myu
· 4 months ago
Is it just me, or does Huron look a lot like Lucius Malfoy?
chiwie
· 4 months ago
looking good as usaul!
however the corsairs squad is rather cheap, same stuff as marines but a CCW for free...
Mindless_Focus
· 4 months ago
okay, now i have to nit pick. In the first image released, the Badab War Leaders portrait, you have the Claw's as black with orange tiger strips outlined in white. now they are yellow with black tiger stripes?
Inquisitor Hate Machine
· 4 months ago
Are Zebras white with black stripes, or black with white stripes?
I looked over KlausmasterFlex's image, and I see it as Orange with black stripes.
EmperorsWrath
· 4 months ago
The coloration of a real animal really has nothing to a fictional Space Marine armor paint scheme.
Even if it were orange with black stripes, which it is not, that doesn't explain the yellow.
1st company is a Terminator Company, not a Veteran Company? How does this chapter have more terminator suits than 99% of other chapters? Plus, 15-member "tactical" squads? I don't exactly get the "why" behind that.
YellowRex
· 4 months ago
It's more pirate-y. A random-sized undisciplined mob of Space Marines waving chainswords and bolt pistols, instead of the 5 or 10 only strictly codex regular marines.
Herald of Nurgle
· 4 months ago
If you look carefully, you notice also that there are less companies than other chapters. The missing mariens has ta be somewhere
Forhekset
· 4 months ago
I always thought your teaser releases were not meant to be read as the text appears to me to be far to tiny to read.
But it seems you do want us to read them, and so I then ask, can we get better resolution teasers? :p
LexingtonNet
· 4 months ago
Looking great, guys! I especially enjoyed the refurbished Mencken quote. Very appropo. :D
Lamenter
· 4 months ago
I...want....it....NOW!!!
Bung
· 4 months ago
Me too
fireangel
· 4 months ago
It's a good start, but I think it could use some tightening up. In no particular order:
Huron has a whole sidebar about his love for hunting animals--maybe an army that includes him should be able to take a pack of counts-as chaos hounds to reflect this. Also not sure that the tiny muppet-like hamadrya really qualifies as a 'hunting beast', seems like a bit of a reach there. Another way to approach it: does this version of the character _need_ a hamadrya?
The corsair squad quotation is too well-known IRL, and doesn't fit the universe. It's fine for inspiring development, but should be cut in the final--it reads like scaffolding.
I feel like Corsair squads should have a transport option for big squads. Something like terminators maybe, where one Corsair squad per detachment may take a LR/LRC/LRR as a dedicated transport option. I'm also not sure about the free extra attack, but playtesting would show if either of these is a real problem.
'Ten or less models' should be 'ten or fewer models' (or rewrite: if the squad numbers ten or less)
Huron himself comes across a little mixed up--is he stubborn, or is he impulsive? IMO neither seem to explain either why he fell, or why he's currently such a problem for the Imperium. Reading the description of his action against the Marines Errant in the 5E rulebook, or the attack on the Space Wolves ship in Codex: CSM, I don't get the sense that this guy is either stubborn OR impulsive--he's a cunning strategist, careful, maneuvering and calculating. The ability to seize initiative on 5+ is a very nice way to reflect this calculating strategic side of him, but it's not reflected in the text. In many ways this is the most problematic part of the section: the Badab War hinges on Huron. If you get him right, it's interesting. If he's muddled or fragmented or doesn't line up with existing pictures we have of him, then I think the dex loses impact.
Shouldn't there be a 'blackheart' squad, or a 'blackheart' upgrade to a Corsair squad? This guy has so many nicknames, I'd love to see some of them reflected in game stats.
LOVE the paint scheme, love it love it love it. Would like to see one of the 95 terminators painted up like this too, to see what vets look like!
Anonymous
· 4 months ago
"Huron himself comes across a little mixed up--is he stubborn, or is he impulsive?"
I fail to see how those two characteristics are anathema to each other. Impulsive people are often stubborn in their spur-of-the-moment decisions, and stubborn people will sometimes act impulsively in attempts to prove themselves justified.
Forhekset
· 4 months ago
I think he makes a valid point.
My question is how on earth do we, or anyone know what Huron was like before now? Do we even know what happened to make them turn renegade?
It's difficult to know what bits are creative license and what is sourced info. Makes it hard to critique the work as well, cause dunno what's what. I know 40k pretty well if I do say so myself, but I know little to nothing of texts before my time, ie RT books.
fireangel
· 4 months ago
You have a point, but if that's the case with Huron, then the text doesn't go on to support it. I do think it's tough to make a case that he's presented in a coherent and understandable way, at least in this one-page sample. What's your one-liner on Huron, after reading this entry? How does that one-liner compare to what we already know about him, both pre- and post-fall?
Name
· 4 months ago
Huh...I guess I always just assumed it was the Hamadrya that turned him to chaos. It looks like a chaos beast and apparently gives him some kind of powers.
Imatushi Maru
· 4 months ago
I am just confused why the Sergeant can replace his boltgun/bolt pistol for free when the squad comes stock with a CCW
huronbh
· 4 months ago
Hmm, I think it is a good start too. A few questions though.
Aren't the Astral Claws Orange. The color art looks yellow on my screen here at work. Also what happened to the tiger head Astral Claw Chapter Logo. The Claw hand doesn't come into play until after they have already become the Red Corsairs. Additionally, how is the pricing setup with the corsair squads having ATSKNF and the Chaos-esk Bolt Pistol, Bolter, and Close Combat Weapon? Does this compare to anything else existing or did you just tack 10pts more per squad on to cover it?
@fireangel - A Blackheart squad wouldn't really make sense. If this minidex is supposed represent the Badab War. Huron Blackheart is the name Lugft Huron takes when he re-emerges after nearly dying at the end of the Badab War to a Meltagun blast.
You might also what to call the Corsair Squads Hunter squads or something similar instead, as they did not become Corsairs until long after they had escaped into the Maelstrom at the end of the war.
whitestar
· 4 months ago
So while everyone discusses the correct spelling of "ax", I'm surprised no one noticed the blatant grammatical error: "If the squad numbers ten or less models..." it should be "ten or fewer"
fireangel
· 4 months ago
I pointed out the error in my post
FiscalHermitCrab
· 4 months ago
Woot! Badab!
I don't really care how you spell axe or what you call the squads, the only thing is that for the Corsair squads' drop pods seeing as they can go over 10 marines and the Drop Pod can hold 12 shouldn't it be that if the squad numbers 12 or fewer they can take a drop pod instead of just 10 like a Rhino?
faultie
· 4 months ago
Seriously? Really? Nothing?
Not a single complaint like "Boo-hoo, more Space Marine stuff" yet? Well, I shall just wait. The gnashers of teeth shall be along shortly, I'm sure of it.
khanaris
· 4 months ago
Why would people complain? It is a fan-made supplement. People really only complain when GW itself shows blatant favoritism. No one really expects third-party groups to support all of the armies.
faultie
· 4 months ago
Ooops. Looks like I forgot to add tags in the above post. [humor] [/humor] should've been in there somewhere.
Herald of Nurgle
· 4 months ago
And there is the background factor too
zanzibar
· 4 months ago
I would have prefer an entry more along the lines of Codex:SM with free special weapons etc... it just makes things look a bit tidier. On a whole it looks very promising and will serious take this into consideration if I ever plan on building a new chaos army.
Spud
· 4 months ago
Why is there an option to change a close combat weapon for a chain sword in the corsair squad for the sergeant? Unless you're meaning for him to have 2 close combat weapons? But he's already got a pistol.
If ya ask me, pistol+CCW is superior to CCW+CCW. Besides that, a model that is WYSIWYG would be acceptable to have a holstered pistol & 2 CCW without making any difference rules wise from just a pistol & CCW.
Just an odd choice if ya ask me.
Spud
· 4 months ago
Whoops. Meant replace a bolt pistol for a chain sword, not a CCW for a chain sword.
Name
· 4 months ago
The corsair are just marines that can take a few extra special weapons, and Huron isn't particularly impressive.
The layout looks spiffy and all, but I'm not too wowed by the content.
Also, I'd be nice if the martini glass wasn't in the background.
dvastator
· 4 months ago
I can't wait to see what they do with the Lamenters. If only I could paint better, they would be my Chapter of choice!
LOL Just noticed the Martini glass!
daniello_s
· 4 months ago
Hmm, looking at Huron's profile...
Wonder what this The Quickening special ability means... And Ladies & Gentleman, where the hell is Iron Halo? Guy has T4, Sv3+ with no Inv at all - that means he sucks in CC cause single power fist will take him out of the game. Sadly I'm not impressed...
Aventine
· 4 months ago
Quickening is a SM psychic power which can be found under the Librarian entry.
daniello_s
· 4 months ago
edit to last post...
i've just noticed iron halo in the profile... guys, i'm telling you... working night shifts are bad for your senses:D
kogwar
· 4 months ago
I see that the corsair unit has a pistol boltgun frag krak and a close combat weapon but the sargent has the ability to trade his boltgun or pistol for a chain sword whitch is close combat weapon. Is that a typo or what i just wanted to bring it to your attention and i can't wait till the badad wars come out.
All Comments
What does 'Lufgt' actually /mean/? Is it just a random jumble of consonants with the complimentary vowel thrown in for taste, or does it have a background? I mean, from over here it looks rather like one of these fancy German acronyms to me. You know, like "SdKfz", "PzKPfw" or "GröFaZ".. So, Herr Huron might acually be "LuFgT Huron", meaning LuftFliegenTerror, LumineszenzFingerTorch or LumpenFregattTölpel. Or not.
I am going to like this one a lot...haha
Lol, Huron may not be as much as a beast in close combat as we are used to, but he'll still pack a punch and provide the majority of the army with it as well. I'm sure you guys put more playtesting into that than GW usually does. In any event, this campaign book will be a fun way to finish out the summer, kudos to BoLS!
Cheers from Denmark
this is so awesome I love this.
since the first mention of the Badab conflict back in the compendium I was interested. You guys are showing what fans can do to add to the hobby.
THANK YOU BOLS!
Writing on linguistics in the Bulletin (13 July 1982) Australian publisher Max Harris once posed the question: “which is the Americanism, ‘ax’ or ‘axe’?”
“Answer: neither. Tricked you. Ax was the preferred Oxford spelling in the late 19th century. The Brits switched to axe. The Americans stayed traditional.”
The editors of Webster's International Dictionary noted:
This word was originally spelt with e, axe, and so also was nearly every corresponding word of one syllable, as flaxe, waxe, sixe, mixe, pixe, oxe, fluxe, etc. This superfluous e is now dropped, so that, in more than a hundred words ending in x, no one thinks of retaining the e except in axe. Analogy requires its exclusion here.
The Oxford English Dictionary, as Harlish Goop writes in Bikwil (July 1998), was published in parts from 1884 until completed in 1928. It later restored the “e” to axe, even though Oxford editor James Murray himself believed that “The spelling ax is better on every ground, of etymology, phonology, and analogy, than axe, which has of late become prevalent.” However, to this day for “criticise/criticize” (and for that matter, “Americanise/Americanize”, “authorise/authorize”, and many of the words with these endings) Oxford dictionaries favour “ize” and describe “ise” as a variant.
*source: http://www.bikwil.com/Vintage19/Webster%27s-Dic...
~kings
Ax/Axe has already been pointed out, but the other thing that caught my eye was the "tiger striping" on the large marine. If detail lines are completey "under" the tiger stripes, especially at the shoulder pad rims and abdomen armor, then the stripes look like pieces of construction paper glued to the armor, rather than the paint scheme. I know how hard it is to put camo/stripes/anything on those B&C-Painter marines, but it would make all the difference.
ATSKNF is not just some feel-good idea of martial courage. It is tied to the role Space Marines place within the culture of the Imperium. If they reject the Emperor and fight only for the chapter, they will lose that place. And in that case the rules represent them better with high leadership and/or stubborn. Following the Emperor does give loyalist marines a strength that renegades lack. The Astral Claws shouldn't have it unless you were representing them pre-fall.
Frankly, I don't care, I don't live in Texas and I can't play with the BoLSers.
As I see it, the moment they chose to betray their oaths would be the moment the rules used to represent them would change. The effect their changing priorities would have on their training and mindset would have had to have begun far earlier.
What I said is it would be fine for the Astral Claws ie: LOYALIST marines at the precipice
of turning traitor.... what to add... fail? ...duh? ....nah I'll just leave it there lol
In fact I even read in a book recently that it's specifcally related to the fact that their gene-seed is extracted and so even if they die, their chapter shall never suffer a real loss. But I don't think that's a belief everyone has.
Don't forget their love for him as a patriarch.
This is why the three of the four chapters eventually surrender and were not excommunicated; they were still loyal to the Emperor the entire time. The Mantis Warriors for instance fought for their Autonomy as a Space Marine Chapter, not because they were Chaos worshipers. Even the Astral Claws were not Chaos; they were following their Chapter Master. Of course when backed into a corner with no place else to go, Hurron was forced to flee into the Malestrom to become a renegade chapter at the END OF THE WAR.
If this does not convince you, let’s just say from a rule prospective; it is much easier if all the armies are based off of the SM codex and not some hybrid of rules.
Cheers,
~kings
This way they follow the same template as all the other chapters involved. 1special character with chapter tactics and one special unit type.
~kings
I'd say that, during the Badab War, the Astral Claws fall under the same heading. They haven't gone renegade enough to lose their faith, but they're definitely not on the same side as the others.
As a side note, I commonly play against a player who chooses to use Cypher. His rules work a little better in 5th Edition than they did in 4th if you view victory points and kill points as being one in the same.
Where has it ever said that? Ultramarines have always been blue.
"but not even Games Workshop paints them this way any more."
Slightly different blue variants over the years, but still blue.
"So what is all the fuzz about the slightly changed color scheme?"
I think you meant "fuss", but it's because the colors have been defined and what is being shown does not match with what's been defined.
"Don't forget, we are no longer in the decade of flashing colors and bad taste (aka the 1980s)."
Rogue Trader was published in 1987 but all of the horrid red swords / red bolters are from 2nd edition in the 90's.
"If GW would paint some Astral Claws now, they would pretty much look a lot more like this "new" scheme from BoLS rather than like the old "cartoony" one."
So, like that's your opinion, man, but it still doesn't explain the yellow. My question stands ... why change it? We could all just make stuff up out of our arses if we wanted to: "well I think the Dark Angels are purple", but it would be silly to think that you wouldn't get called on it.
aventine's is how I always picutred them in my mind.
~kings
however the corsairs squad is rather cheap, same stuff as marines but a CCW for free...
I looked over KlausmasterFlex's image, and I see it as Orange with black stripes.
Even if it were orange with black stripes, which it is not, that doesn't explain the yellow.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Tiger_Claw...
Plus, 15-member "tactical" squads? I don't exactly get the "why" behind that.
But it seems you do want us to read them, and so I then ask, can we get better resolution teasers? :p
Huron has a whole sidebar about his love for hunting animals--maybe an army that includes him should be able to take a pack of counts-as chaos hounds to reflect this. Also not sure that the tiny muppet-like hamadrya really qualifies as a 'hunting beast', seems like a bit of a reach there. Another way to approach it: does this version of the character _need_ a hamadrya?
The corsair squad quotation is too well-known IRL, and doesn't fit the universe. It's fine for inspiring development, but should be cut in the final--it reads like scaffolding.
I feel like Corsair squads should have a transport option for big squads. Something like terminators maybe, where one Corsair squad per detachment may take a LR/LRC/LRR as a dedicated transport option. I'm also not sure about the free extra attack, but playtesting would show if either of these is a real problem.
'Ten or less models' should be 'ten or fewer models' (or rewrite: if the squad numbers ten or less)
Huron himself comes across a little mixed up--is he stubborn, or is he impulsive? IMO neither seem to explain either why he fell, or why he's currently such a problem for the Imperium. Reading the description of his action against the Marines Errant in the 5E rulebook, or the attack on the Space Wolves ship in Codex: CSM, I don't get the sense that this guy is either stubborn OR impulsive--he's a cunning strategist, careful, maneuvering and calculating. The ability to seize initiative on 5+ is a very nice way to reflect this calculating strategic side of him, but it's not reflected in the text. In many ways this is the most problematic part of the section: the Badab War hinges on Huron. If you get him right, it's interesting. If he's muddled or fragmented or doesn't line up with existing pictures we have of him, then I think the dex loses impact.
Shouldn't there be a 'blackheart' squad, or a 'blackheart' upgrade to a Corsair squad? This guy has so many nicknames, I'd love to see some of them reflected in game stats.
LOVE the paint scheme, love it love it love it. Would like to see one of the 95 terminators painted up like this too, to see what vets look like!
I fail to see how those two characteristics are anathema to each other. Impulsive people are often stubborn in their spur-of-the-moment decisions, and stubborn people will sometimes act impulsively in attempts to prove themselves justified.
My question is how on earth do we, or anyone know what Huron was like before now? Do we even know what happened to make them turn renegade?
It's difficult to know what bits are creative license and what is sourced info. Makes it hard to critique the work as well, cause dunno what's what. I know 40k pretty well if I do say so myself, but I know little to nothing of texts before my time, ie RT books.
Aren't the Astral Claws Orange. The color art looks yellow on my screen here at work. Also what happened to the tiger head Astral Claw Chapter Logo. The Claw hand doesn't come into play until after they have already become the Red Corsairs. Additionally, how is the pricing setup with the corsair squads having ATSKNF and the Chaos-esk Bolt Pistol, Bolter, and Close Combat Weapon? Does this compare to anything else existing or did you just tack 10pts more per squad on to cover it?
@fireangel - A Blackheart squad wouldn't really make sense. If this minidex is supposed represent the Badab War. Huron Blackheart is the name Lugft Huron takes when he re-emerges after nearly dying at the end of the Badab War to a Meltagun blast.
You might also what to call the Corsair Squads Hunter squads or something similar instead, as they did not become Corsairs until long after they had escaped into the Maelstrom at the end of the war.
"If the squad numbers ten or less models..."
it should be "ten or fewer"
I don't really care how you spell axe or what you call the squads, the only thing is that for the Corsair squads' drop pods seeing as they can go over 10 marines and the Drop Pod can hold 12 shouldn't it be that if the squad numbers 12 or fewer they can take a drop pod instead of just 10 like a Rhino?
Not a single complaint like "Boo-hoo, more Space Marine stuff" yet?
Well, I shall just wait. The gnashers of teeth shall be along shortly, I'm sure of it.
[humor] [/humor] should've been in there somewhere.
On a whole it looks very promising and will serious take this into consideration if I ever plan on building a new chaos army.
If ya ask me, pistol+CCW is superior to CCW+CCW. Besides that, a model that is WYSIWYG would be acceptable to have a holstered pistol & 2 CCW without making any difference rules wise from just a pistol & CCW.
Just an odd choice if ya ask me.
The layout looks spiffy and all, but I'm not too wowed by the content.
Also, I'd be nice if the martini glass wasn't in the background.
LOL Just noticed the Martini glass!
Wonder what this The Quickening special ability means...
And Ladies & Gentleman, where the hell is Iron Halo? Guy has T4, Sv3+ with no Inv at all - that means he sucks in CC cause single power fist will take him out of the game. Sadly I'm not impressed...
i've just noticed iron halo in the profile... guys, i'm telling you... working night shifts are bad for your senses:D