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Coming first is like the height of human achievement, Gold Medals, that's like screaming FIRST! in your face. Think about it.
I'm glad for 'em though. If the concept of typing 'first' after a new post has been put up were something I felt compelled to do, or if it would amuse me, or if it would indeed elicit any kind of emotional response from me, I would obviously do it. Alas, perhaps I'm too cynical and jaded. But I'm also actually happy that the thought of going 'first' is not something that interests me. I'm pleased to say I would never, ever consider doing it. But good on ya, all those self-conciously wacky people who do! It'd be great to be so easily amused...
"Lighten up, Francis"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k
Come on... Say something useful or dont post.
ATSKNF
Furious Charge
Relentless.. (What? i want to have my assault marines flying around shooting lascannons! Come on! It'll be totally fair! And i want those side armour shots with S9!
/jokes off
No I did not post that... But if that guy purposfully said that while beeing fully aware of my coment before then IM sorta annoyed
What we don't need is NEW marine variants. With the possible exception of a codex for the chaos legions.
does your peice of plastic come with a waranty?
does it cost thousands of dollars?
If your going to use a metephor.... use a good one.
And then GW will find itself without a Marine codex to update for the entire fifth edition aside from the Grey Knights. That might drive their poor souls up the walls, not having any giant supermen to wank off.
Also, I pray that they do not add Blood Ravens as a codex. We need FEWER Marine codices, not more.
Go Blood Ravens! I expect the new codex by next Christmas. :P
And if you really want something different, there's always the "counts as" option...
Back in the days of 2nd edition I met a player who kitbashed his orks with the Imperial Army plastic sets of the day... and used the Imperial Army rules.
It was well painted, too, and Orks in patrol kaps don't look bad (sorry - couldn't resist!)...
Eventuallu someone would have said it.
"This is codex creep!" (Obviously, credit goes to SnifBask, good call on that one)
"X power is WAY overpowered!?!?!!?" (Let's go with 'Vortex of Blood is overpowered' 'cos it's been mentioned by name)
"Games Workshop should be ashamed" (That classic always gets said by someone")
"There's no point in playing X army anymore once this new codex comes out" (Except for all of the reasons you're using X army right now, which won't go away when the not-as-game-breaking-as-some-people-are-saying-now new 'dex comes out)
Come on! Let's hear some more! Woo! You know, the vociferous and damning and utterly incorrect things people said about the Space Marine/IG/Space Wolves 'dexs before they were released. Gotta love it.
(Anyone get that reference? :-) )
To be honest, I don't want to see Marines keep coming. There're just too many of them released and keep those older books from having a chance to stand back up. Even if DE don't need one (tehy're still pretty powerful now), Inquisition and Crons seriously need that.
No, and I don't think Bugs should come before those.
But they will. Nothing to do about that.
You'll want to get yourself some boxes of assault terminators and assault marines ready. Don't worry there will be a bundle option like with the wolves.
The codex has some great new rules relating to blood rage!
(Thats all I can say folks!)
Personally, I would not mind seeing a return of the Angels of Death Codex with both Chapters represented. Or combining two Chapters into one Codex. The Blood Ravens and Dark Angels since they are both normal Chapters and don't focus on shooting or assault. The Blood Angels and Black Templars both similarly focus on assault. Organizing them together in some way kind of fits my ordered sense of doing things but it would result in a Codex similar to the main SM one and a Codex that is fairly separated from the main Codex.
Furthermore, well done GW if someone has finally had the bright idea of working that little bit harder to bring out codices in a timely fashion, with a focus on getting every race up-to-date. However, GW is still the money-making machine it has always been, so a new AoD book just doesn't make much financial sense. I would be very surprised (and a little disappointed) if you ended up seeing any type of combined book, barring something like Codex: Inquisition (covering DH, WH, OX).
Given the BAs have already shared one codex, and have then been forced to use a PDF version (the general idea of which was reasonably sound, but who's implementation was so lacklustre and poorly thought out), it is high time that we had our own, stand alone book... with pages.... and a cover....
It's even more or less directly confirmed in the Dawn of War books.
I'm more interested in the little tidbit at the end: Blood Angels are only half the story....
A two at once release would lend itself best to Dark Angels since they'd need the fewest updates having redone relatively recently. Updates to some old special characters and an update of rules with addition of some of the newer units.
Black Templars would be good too, but I think are deserving of more fleshing out compared to the other two, I think that fleshing out would likely result in more new models than the other two codices would need.
Anywho shall I kick of the timer then?
Prepare for Dark Eldar/Inquisition whining in
3...
2...
1...
3...
2...
1..."
Nailed It!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J8srN24pSQ
In truth (as a DE player): DE, Inquisition, and Necrons are all in dire need of a codex update. If either Inquisition or Necrons got their update before me I'd be disappointed but it wouldn't really bother me since they need it just as badly.
Blood Angels bugs me a bit. If this new BA codex is a web-only one (like the previous one), then I'm annoyed that it is taking up the slot of a more needed update in GWs apparently 3-month-ish between releases schedule they have been having. Being a web-release, it should be outside that cycle (since it takes less work). If it's a full printed codex, do marines really need ANOTHER new codex? Especially for a chapter that is less different from vanilla marines then Space Wolves are (rules wise).
Tyranids bug me the most. They are still an exceptionally viable army with multiple viable builds and they just had a new codex update in 4th edition (granted, it was very early in 4th edition). DE, Necrons, and Inquisition haven't been updated since 3rd and (at least in DEs case) a lot of the mechanics/wargear not only not useful under the current rules but are sometimes even completely non-functional (Gruesome talismans and Hell-masks for non ICs come to mind).
I do hope that this entire time they've had people working on Nyds, DE, Necrons, ect. because those codex's will be awesome when they do hit the shelves.
I envy the Xenos who will have some awesome codexs here soon enough.
If you want to mention CC, then don't. Most transports will move 6+ inches making you hit on 6s. Even a good brood of stealers generally won't do much to the transport, and even if they do frag it they're in rapidfire rangeso the unit is dead.
Nids also have many upgrades that no longer do anything (like Thornback for example) and, as with Necrons, DE, and Inq, most of the units are so highly costed that they aren't worth it, especially with how little damage they do.
So pretty much I would argue that nids need an upgrade just as much as the other 4 of the 5 oldest codexes. It might still be more viable than necrons or Inq, but its not really a top end army and it still only has one real list that can touch mech (and even still it doesn't do a great job against it).
GW releases Marine codecies between actual codecies because they're easy, profitable, and relatively quick to produce and balance.
Actual non-marine armies appear between marine codecies because they need unique and new models and they are difficult to balance. You can't just carbon-copy the Vanillamarines codex and change some things around.
For every new Space Marine unit, just release a few 'conversion' bits. For every new Tyranid unit, you have to create a completely new model. The same goes for any Xenos army.
BA were easily done in a week... or something.
GW has no need to apologize, they can do what ever they want. I haven't bought anything from GW in a while and I think its simply unreasonable to demand anything from GW, when any other company would act the same way they do. GW is pulling themselves out of debt, which mean they're obviously making money, where before they were losing it. So if Space Marines x10 pay for GW stay in business so that once every 5 years I get what I want from them I'm cool with that. The other four years I can buy a car or house or video games.
Seriously, though, I don't thind we'll have to wait too long if GW keeps pumping out codecies like this. The rate at which we're getting rumors about completed codecies actually gives me hope.
0...
Honestly, more people tend to whine about DE/Inquisiton whiners than anything else. Please stop propagating the whining.
Then from me; whining-whining-whining-whining
This is pretty fun.
Having played against all the various armies out there, I think a re-vamp of BA/DA does make sense... but the BA Dex I think is better suited to 5th than the DA one and the order should have been reversed.
Of the other marine dexs left to do, BT's are still pretty solid against most foes in 5th; the local BT player to me has had zero complaints with their performance. I think this dex should be a wait on until something Inquisition or Xenos is redone.
I think the fact that GW doing all the codices for marines in a short span is in long run improve the consistency and cut down on the number of people who jump from one marine dex to the next when they don't like something.
But loyal customers who've invested money into a product line that's received no support in a decade have a right to be pissed too. I'll bet you most people didn't buy their armies in 3rd edition with the expectation they'd be grossly unsupported and left out of date for years and years. A lot of people make the assumption that older dexes aren't updated because they don't sell well. That may or may not be true, but either way it's completely asinine. Of course people aren't going to invest in a neglected product line, but they will if these 3rd edition codices get some love and a freaking update.
Here's to hoping that Tycho is still worthless. If he were to get a power sword or something, I would be very sad.
Hoping...but not holding my breath.
BROTHERS, WE STAND STRONG.
SUFFER NOT THE UNCLEAN TO LIVE!
As regards practicality, depends how you use them and your opponent tries to deal with them. They'd be horrific, I think, if you teamed them up with Shrike himself. =(
As a Templars player, I'd love to have an assault squad like this. Don't get me wrong though, Storm Shields are great on 'jump-packers' (even without the 3+ inv nerf). If you can imagine the above vanguard squad with preferred enemy, then you know why I'd want them, even if only for Apoc games. =)
Just something I've always dreamed about being released.
At least they're TRYING to break up the Imperial codexes now - Tyranids will make a nice change, methinks.
Can't wait for the end of the Daemons/Marine split, though.
Marines
Guard
Slightly different Marines
Tyranids
Slightly different Marines
Dark Eldar?
Probably more slightly different MArines (Dark Angels? CSM?)
Etc. I wouldn't call that splitting them up, I'd call that way too much damn marinewank.
Marines
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Eldar/Dark Eldar (combined codex)
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Guard/Inquisitino (combined codex)
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Tau
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Slightly different Marines
Orks
... repeat as necessary
/sarcasm
It's not surprising that Blood Angels are coming soon, considering the awesome Space Hulk models. I'm considering starting a Tyranid army when the new codex drops, I've been having a lot of fun using my mate's Nid army. I tell you what though, DE had better have some damn good models when that codex gets released. I'll probably never play them, but I feel for all you DE players, I really do.
It is nice though that after this GW will have eliminated all supplement codecies though (spare me the Inquisition whining, they are not supplemental codecies)
Actually, I'd rather a Mechanicus codex with Iron Hands allies, but for the sake of all the loyalist legions getting their own book, I'd approve of it the other way as well.
chapter without a one. A lot more people play Salamanders than
Iron Hands. Although in saying that if Iron Hand did recieve their
own codex I'm sure they would get a lot more interest.
I don't think I've ever seen a comment from you that wasn't some sort of whine about marines. I'm just curious why you hate marines SO MUCH. Seriously - what did they do to scar you so badly?
Get some new material! <---see what I did there ;)
Codex wise I personally would not want to see another joint codex, and would prefer to wait an extra year or two to see single codex's for my blood angels. The reason for this is I really wish that GW takes into account that yes Blood Angels are a founding chapter, and were one of the most popular chapters for years and still are.
Also wish listing here I know, but I would like to see something a bit more interesting, though the death company are amazing as they stand I kind of wish they had a few more options to them (bring back power fists). And over all I just wish there was a bit more on the options front, perhaps some more specialist assault troopers. With perhaps some sort of Lone wolf esq character for the blood angels just an idea but perhaps a marine falling to the black rage mid combat (with crazy rules where if he gets too close to the death company he starts questioning why they are all referring to themselves as Sanguinius, thus confusing him and forcing him to jump into the middle of the squad if he fails a leadership test leading him to attack everyone in that squad or if they were in combat that whole combat ((personally I would love to see that))).
Some Characters need to really be changed... Tycho either make him DC or just have something done to him to make him worth wile fielding. Dante is alright just eternal warrior would be nice to see. Mephistion is alot of fun as a character would be rather cool to have him have a few more psychic powers, will a bit more interesting results. Corbulo is still damn good for a character; personally I would like to see an additional HQ choice of a sanguinary priest again... Chaplain Lemartes... Really needs a new model and something a bit more interesting into his profile...
Over all the codex really does need some re calculating of points... Personally I would love the marines to have a few more options about them... Honour Guard and vets to have more interesting weapons... Though its nice to get free death company at the moment I would prefer to buy them on the side just to have cheaper over all marines... Scouts I would like to see go into troops or fast attack, perhaps have some crazy jetpacked scouts flying around; also scouts on bikes would be nice to see... Weapon upgrades on troop choices would be nice to see them dropped a little. And would be nice to have Devastator squads a bit power to them as shown with codex space marines + space wolves, it would be nice to see them have an extra ability on the sergeant.
I really would love to see what happens with the plastic kit and if it’s going to be as good as the hype...
Would love to see some characters re done, Lemartes decently, Tycho if they made him DC, and Mephiston perhaps just to have him in a more dramatic pose. Though Dante has always been an amazing model so is Corbulo, so I wouldn’t really want them to be changed...
Would be cool to have some Death Company parts in the plastic kits, perhaps if GW did 11 man squads with them. 10 normal blood angels with different parts and one death company guy with a few different parts too...
Terminators dont really need to be done because i am pretty sure most people will be using space hulk termies. But some custom ones would be nice... A plastic furioso would be amazing... Also a Baal Predator in plastic would be amazing to have also.... I guess only time will tell.
*wish list over*
If GW is going to do a marine dex I'm glad i'm going to see the BA get a fresh face.
So...They release Blood Angels and, say, Tyranids at the same time?
Ok, I'm done.
Instead of the usual DE/Necrons/Inquisition whining, I'd like to present a pair of questions:
Why create an online codex if the BA were going to get a full codex?
Why are all the non-codex marine chapters (with rules) assault-oriented?
Just some stuff to think about. Personally, I don't think the BA are getting a codex anytime soon. Although they MIGHT get some new models...
Also... wait... Blood ravens are psyker-based? Hmm... Actually, then, I wouldn't whine if they got a codex. They'd fill a niche currntly not really filled (armored psykers), although that could spell the doom of the Grey Knights.
Although I'd prefer to see that role filled by a more sorcerous Chaos Space Marine codex, I doubt it's happening. THat whole "5th edition in mind" bit means that Chaos Space Marine players are stuck with Mr. Thorpe's Codex of Suck.
Honestly, I'm hoping that they drop one of the assault marine armies for blood ravens. It's kind of sad that all the variant chapters that get codexes are assaulty.
Oh, and Fifty-First!
The reason behind giving the divergent chapters their own codex is because they are different from all of the normal codex loving marines.
SW. Use runes to focus the warp, hate teleportation, and have the canis helix gene seed that allows them to smell and tell just like an animal does what prey is doing. ie: counter charge (I see your next move/know what your thinking) and Acute Senses (I smell you) And they assault more than shoot (normal marines that are more balanced between cc and fire.)
BA. Have really different attributes do to an instability in their gene seed. If they got furious charge and frenzy I think it would fit their fluff perfectly. They suffer from fits of rage because they have visions of their primarch's death brought on from them drinking blood of their primarch (which is held in sang. priests) to become BA marines. They are jump packed and Fast Assault to the core. They don't want to shoot they instead want to spill blood. That is why all of their vehicles have supercharged engines and minimum number of sit and shoot guns. Their devastators even have problems with sitting still and shooting because of the visions of death.
BT. HATE psychers and in such would never work with or be joined by psychers in their army. Psychers are attuned to the warp and are inherently evil. BT have the largest number of marines in the galaxy for a chapter. They do not adhere in any form to the rules laid down by gouliman and instead do as they please. They are full of initiates who go into battle seeking the best fight just to prove they are ready for the next step in becoming a BT. They are also a frenzy type of chapter That would probably have access to a few relentless troops as well, they are on the move always.
DA. Have mysterious creatures helping them and also have a hidden agenda of hunting the fallen, which has always played a strong part in game senerios in the past editions. They tend to have different psycher powers, and access to more term suits than most other chapters- space wolves boast this also though I think the dark angels in fluff changes my be the uber holders in the end. They also have the only known original jet bike in the 40K universe that still works. They are 3 different armies in one as far as play style goes. Don't really know what they should have as codex traits.
All other marines pretty much adhere to the codex Astarte and as such are represented in the ultramarine codex. That is why they get their own books.
Blood Ravens are not a true chapter fluff wise, to my knowledge (been playing since 2nd edition) they were just a creation of the DoW video-game and had their fluff thrown in to the 40K realm when it became a big success.
Inquisition should get their own codex but it should be a sisters and demon hunters combined codex that allows for small insertions into specific imperial factions(codei??) such as Codex Imp. Guard, Codex Space Marines, but not any of the following BT, SW with Wulfen or T. Wolves, BA with any blood raged models (Death Company), and DA using any hunt the fallen special rules.
-OUT of this you could make a counts as blood ravens army because they have latent psychic abilities...and so do Demon Hunters (although theirs would be more refined)- There would have to be some major rules on the force organization charts as well as some exclusions to unit types allowed also. Demon Hunters would not have pertinence engines, but may, on occasion, work with a Witch Hunter sister to kill both a demon threat and the source of the instability!
One "Codex: Heroes of the Space Marines" with a list of characters and the abilities and codex changes they confer and you'd do them all in one fell swoop, even most divergent; the Space Wolves (who still pretty much have and do as every other Chapter does).
One the other side though. All of the codex minus BA and DA had their own codex with their own special rules sense second edition-BA and DA were combined into the Angels of Death book which was really 2 in one deal half one being BA Half Two being DA. BT never had their own codex in second nor did Deamon Hunters, Necrons, Squats, and Tau (DE says 2nd edition on it but came out so late ...or close to 3rd ed. that I don't know where to put it).
Things change, and thank god we did get some none imperials out of the change DE (if they ever get a new codex-which will be nice, but will cause a lose in power IMO), Tau (need better Kroots, but still competetive), and Necrons(need relentless, FNP, and rending weapons...and maybe one or two new entries, but really how many different necrons are there? Necron, Necron in Destroyer body, Leader Necron, Scarabs, and a Monolith...maybe a stationary Pylon :Deepstriking: or a obilisk of some kind like in the video game (anti infantry. Maybe Deepstriking???) Either way I don't think their is much leway in the base Lords w/ Options, Immortals, Pirahs, Flayed ones, Necrons, and anti tank or Infantry Destroyers. I don't think that a necron army should have a option of a C'tan. It is a GOD in living metal...it is an appocalypse item of high points. Maybe different sects of Necrons would be better, ie: deep strikers (The whole army could deepstrike for a huge amount of points also...it would make sense fluff wise.), fast attacks as troops (their Leader was programmed/entranced for quick attacks to build Fear for C'tan consumption, certain Heavies as troops (The C'tan loved the essence of a painful and sudden death), etc. Im tired, I don't even know if what I wrote makes sense. I hate night shifts.
When you wander just slightly outside of 40k (places like TTGN or TMP), you notice a big reason people leave 40k is because of the ever-prevalent emphasis on melee from what are supposed to be the all-around greatest troops in the galaxy. We now have two "shooty" armies - IG and Tau. Every other force is either "all-around" or assault-oriented, outside of a few random builds. I understand 40k is more "space-fantasy" than hard sci-fi, but I would love to see forces that emphasize firepower over fists.
So here's hoping, if the rumors are true and it is Dark Angels that we see, that it becomes the first Marine 'dex this era to favor gunline armies.
Secondly, you can't say that C:DA is "a codex favoring a gunline army", DA are pretty much what you call "all-around" army. They can shoot, but hey, they can assault pretty well too, just like any other marine force. On the other hand, I still include at least two tactical squads in my every Blood Angels list. Assault Marines usually don't last to hold the objectives and even an assault-heavy force does need some support fire IMHO.
Also, with the release of the SM codex, you got yourself a plenty of gunline marine armies. You just need to build it like a gunline or even better, stick to the background of particular marine chapters - for instance, Imperial Fists were pretty known to be a siege specialist. Doesn't sound that much of a melee warfare to me.
In some ways, getting all the marines out of the way is the best thing for everyone: GW makes a ton of money while the marines (their best-selling product) sells like hotcakes, and the rest of the time until 6th edition (and it'll be quite a while, since marine sales will probably drop off when 6th edition outdates their codexes) can be devoted to updating the factions that need it most (Necrons, Inquisition, DE, etc), and possibly introducing a new Xenos race or two (like the Demiurg or Hrud). Who knows, we might look back and see 5th edition as the edition where everyone got their codex updated.
Of course, that doesn't make it any less obnoxious sitting through the marine-fest.
Look what's happening with WFB. They've yet to lap back around and update the army books for the early 5th armies (empire, dwarves, orcs) and already there's talk of a 6th edition.
As my boss once told me: It's all about the money.
And didn't very little change in WFB's last edition change? So not updating the old armies might not necessarily be as odious as failing to update 40k's old 3rd edition armies.
I didn't play until 7th Ed, so i can't tell you what'd change. Honestly, on some level, both 40k and WFB are at a steady state where they need to rationalize all the codices against one another -- NOT tweak the rules.
As to what else might be coming, successor chapters would be easy to do on the same sprues, but i think it'll fall into either A) something where they can branch off easily and use a lot of the same work (eg: Dark Angels in their own equally priced codex) or B) it's a red herring, and the second thing is dark eldar or necrons or Hrud or space zombies or whatever.
I'm hoping for demiurg: it'd add a new "good" (or at least neutral) race to 40k, plus their probable focus on high-tech means that they'd be the perfect race to use to get one of my friends into 40k.
Vampires and zombies in one year? Bring 'em on, I say.
Yay?
If the Blood Angel models are anything on par with the Space Hulk stuff, then that would be very awesome indeed.
Once GW get this out of their system then I hope we'll see the year of the Xeno where we get no Marine codices... but that's purely fantasy I guess :)
Marine codices are so similar it's a wonder they're not already all released at the same time. I think if GW start this trend of double codex releases then we could easily see this repeated with the Chaos Legions.
Brace yourselves.
Ready?
SQUATS.
Seriously, though, I doubt we'll ever see the squats return. But we might get a demiurg codex, and that'd be almost as good.
Stupid nerfed codex... grumble... mutter... gripe...
If all these vaguely different marine factions didn't have their own codices, then there wouldn't be oddly different rules for the same wargear between factions. These differing wargear rules are merely a byproduct of this convolution of bureaucracy.
Please....think of the bureaucrats.
For Sanguinius! Death! DEATH!
The DA most definitely should be redone after the shafting they took by the following marine and SW codicies. At least make the squads cheaper and give them some special rules like stubborn.
This game and its armies are starting to become unrecognizable.
Sure, the Chaos codex is free-for-all, and Khorne can march with Tzeentch. I couldn't care less. After seeing what wonderful goodies they have bestowed on ONLY SM armies, I can hardly wait to hear the hue and cry from the DE players when their army is likewise castrated. Probably to make a BA army more of a "raider-psyker-daemonfest". Why not?
Just make sure that no army list includes flavor or potential other than SM armies, and we won't have a galaxy at war.
We'll finally have peace.
Please. This is bullcrap GW. Get off your lazy asses and do something about, oh, say DARK DAMN ELDAR.... or maybe Necrons or Tau before you do another stupid Imperial codex. I swear.
GW has been doing a painful series of cuts and reorganizations to bring itself back into profitability, and 2010 is the year to really try to rake in some fruit from their efforts.
Marines are the company's bread and butter and have the highest profitability (by far). Tyranids are said to be the most popular xenos species.
They just tee-ed up both armies with Space Hulk (which sold in record time). It doesn't take a genius to see how they would want to capitalize on its coat-tails.
Its what the Ultramarine book does after all and it would explain the new IC's.
"Blood for the God emperor, Skulls for the Throne of Terra!"