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God knows there are enough of them already...
Would a codex for the Celestial Lions be cool? Sure, why not? How about one for the Mentors? Absolutely. But we will have to change the name from WH 40k to SM 40k. Sounds great doesn't it?
History meaning- they've been in the game since 2nd edition (Maybe even Rogue Trader, not sure about that)
But I understand re-doing Space Wolves. Their structure and units are so different from the standard, it's near impossible to correctly represent them using the Space Marine list.
however, i would much rather see a necron, tau, DE, or inquisition codex come out in preference to space wolves, just because i like the other
so just makes sense that they would release marines 75% of the time.
Naielo
While I wait for a new codex I am putting my time and money towards Orks, Eldar, Kreig, Sisters, GK and Daemons. Unfortuneately for GW there is little left that I want to add to my exiting armies (maybe some ork FWstuff - the rest are all 5K+ apoc sized)
GW will get more of my $ when the new SW Codex and new shiny toys are released.
~kigns
It could even be in white dwarf soon!
Now if they can put the C:SM effort into a Space Wolves .pdf now they are on to something!
As for the retards of fenris. They are despised by every 40k player I know. I have yet to find an actual fan of them. I wish for once it was the space wolves who had their hamstrings cut and were fed to the kraken.
Now that isnt to say no one I know plays them. I have seen a couple people who use them and why? Because they get the best of two codex's since most of their codex tells them to just use the vanilla marine codex anyways.
I play the Wolves because I love the fluff, the heritage, the theme, the "screws to that, we do what fits us" attitude. Sure, it's a bit single minded, the army at any rate, but in a time of changing codices and game style, the fact that the Wolves can continue to be a competitive force just shows the overall balanced nature of our army. It takes skill to run an army that's generally pretty straightforward like the Wolves, and those that run simple "Sit back, shoot" armies like Tau or Eldar wouldn't have a hope in hell of understanding the nuances of an army like the Wolves.
Get off your high horse, and go suck on an Eldar, you self-righteous ignorant savage.
Pompous much?
Who is the ignorant savage here that really does need to get over himself, I wonder.... ;)
Wolves nowadays are forced to either play with intelligence and cunning, as the game is meant, or to play with no great hope of winning, for the love of the game. That can't be said for Eldar, or Tau, most Nids, or Chaos; at least, not as a whole. Anyone can play a cheeseball army and win, they may even say they're having fun, but when I show up and kick the hell outta ya using a fluffy list filled not with minmax but with just the attitude of the army, don't bitch. You're just getting taught how to play the game the right way.
Sit down, shut up, and play like you got a pair, or don't waste my time. Post something useful or get the hell out.
Just so everyone knows, I know absolutely nothing. Although I did point out that it was suspicious that they took down the 13th Company codex from the GW CA site around the same time Warseer Harry leaked that the SW codex was complete. It does make sense though to wean people off the 13th Co. if the new codex is coming soon though.
Looks like people are buying into my conspiracy theories... ha... I won't stop anyone!
I really hate it when people use that "Well its makes sense from a buisness point of view" GW apologist argument.
~kings
"The internet was created for people to bitch and moan" -> hmm :S
Tau are still ok, a few tweeks and changes are all they really need.
Necron... have a solid base, but need some work. Price drops on a lot of stuff, wraiths should have power weapons, a few new original units would be nice, and feel no pain!
oh and yet the csm(you know the cooler space marines and yet they have a retard codex compared to the last one) still have one codex for all and the regular space marines have 4 codexes! WHATS THE DEAL WITH THAT?
That's probably just my love of all things that seem like they're part of an empire, it's personal opinion I suppose
the chaos legions are far more diverse and have equal amounts of real and "fluff" history as the loyalist ones yet for some reason we can fit all of chaos into one book...
I'm not suggesting multiple chaos dexes but tbh one single space marine dex, reading through the (and lets be honest here) Ultramarines Codex did my head in with such vaunted crap as (if my memory serves) One lone 1st company terminator lasting for hours on end against hordes of necrons who in all honesty wouldnt get close to the terminator, they would sit back and gauss his ass, 30 seconds and fried termy.
Instead of filling the "space marine" codex with that rubbish they could have slipped at least blood angels in there, expanded the dex and added dark angels, black templars and space wolves too, thus making it the "space marine" codex and not "codex: ultramarines" which it really is.
Yeh, marines are your best sellers, but if GW keep playing favourites to this extent they're gonna destroy interest in all the other armies, thus making them nonprofitable to produce, thus killing all variety in the game, thus ruining the game. They need to be promoting the other armies, not constanly pushing Imperials.
I love moaning. =D
...I will see the shitstorm approaching for that case :D
Stop bitching; yes, GW should revise their policy about codexes, maybe the best would be a giant parent codex whit the core and ALL the fluff and more .pdf and Wihte Dwarf articles with the extra stuff for, say Space Wolves, it would be more streamlining with 'dexes and stop those loads of crap about the oldest stuff (and maybe even WD wouldn't suck hard)
Sorry for ork-glish mistakes.
... and last I heard, you got to have several of those tombs in order to have the complete listing for ALL of their latest models. Then again, you don't need it: the "collectible" nature of Warmachine negates that to some degree ...
(Note: I hate that "collectable" business model. It makes good sense business-wise, but this, and the "big tomb of 2/3rds not applicable to my army" are two big reasons why I chose 40k when I started out...)
That said, my gripe with Warmachine/Hordes is the lack of depth in small skirmish play, which results in a push for larger and longer games that start to look a lot like 40k in size...
bring on the sons of russ and all the new and cool bling they will release.....im 20 chaos warrior based TS tacs and a bane/raider LRC down and lots of paintin to go...:)
If you're excited about Space Wolves, then get excited and talk about that.
If you're going to cry, put on some Joy Division and write your "Dear John" letter directly to GW so I don't have to sift through your terminal sorrow.
As for the matter at hand - considering GW normally release a number of generic Marine kits in conjunction with any Chapter specific release - what could possibly be left I wonder? Or will they just do a plastic Wolf Scout Sprue and maybe re-cut the plastic Space Wolf sprue with some new options to cover bikes and Wolf Guard terminators - similar to what they did with the last Dark Angels sprue?
think of all the backround, fluff and imagery they could pack such a book with, who wouldnt buy it?
people with wolf, blood angels, dark angels, black templars etc would get it for their rules, people with standard marines would get it for the fluff and to see what chapter traits they could use to better represent their specially crafted chapter.
Seems the smarter move to me :)
on a more personal note, im now going to put off the re-furb of my wolves till the codex comes out, gigedy :D
- make a 22,5€ codex for all the varients of space marines, with rules for their specificities
- make a dozen of special characters for like 10€ each, that people who wants specificities will buy because everyone don't have skill/patience/time to convert their own.
What do you think is the most profitable choice ?
Codex: Space Marines covers the codex asartes chapters (and the minor oddity chapters)
I wouldn't call it Codex: Successor's (3 of the 4 listed are first founding), but it's still a great idea.
Mark my words.
So corny.
It's kinda weird for me to say this, but I have ZERO intention of buying this one, and I buy all the codexes GW releases, just to get familiar with the armies. But who the hell can get excited about the Space Wolves?
I sorta wish GW had just blanketed all the chapters with one big Space Marine codex. Break them down with a trait system (Dark Angels can take termies/bikers as troop choices, Black Templars can have their neophyte dudes, etc.). That way everybody gets the same base equipment, so people could stop complaining about the storm shields...
I agree with the general concensus that too much emphasis is placed on the marines, and it makes for a better game if some time was spent by GW plugging some of the other armies.
Wow, GW has screwed the pooch so much since announcing 5th Ed.- the whole 40k thing is a mess.
BTW, anyone in the NYC area play Warmachine? I recently bought the book, and am thinking of starting a Cryx army- care to join me?
You cry about Space Wolves being so corny and blase, yet you noobishly jumped on the Cryx band wagon, which is the equivalent of Marines in 40k.
Who the hell can get exited about Cryx when everyone and their mother plays them.
Oh the Irony.
2) There's a bandwagon? I've never PLAYED the game, dick, that would make me a NOOB where Warmachine is concerned, wouldn't it? Oh, gee, you calling me a noob really hurts.
3) Reviewing my post, I don't see any CRYING, per say. I do recall some yawning, however.
Note to all the cool SW players- I don't mean that, Space Wolves are cool, just not my thing. More of a Templars guy. I apologize.
4) And I don't know about 'Everyone's Mom' playing Cryx, but I know what your mom plays.
Tell her Thanks!
Now how's that for irony, wiseguy? Laughing out loud 20 times now?
Try harder LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
Peace out Kettle.
I'm 40, have been married and widowed, have kids that could probably beat you up.
That will be all, Dickey McDouche.
And No, your name will never, ever matter.
We are a group in Cedar Grove, NJ (20 minutes outside NYC by Bus, bus stop is literally in front of the store) that plays everything. Warmachine, 40k, FB, Flames, Mordheim etc. Check it out.
Certainly sounds like something is happening, and the removal of the Codex definitely points to something happening soon
I mean, look at the Chaos Space Marine Raptors w/ Assault weapons.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/produ...
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/produ...
One is $22 and the other is $12....for the same product. =/
how the hell did you find that? lol, the GW site is falling apart at the seams!!
theres spelling mistakes pepper potted all over the joint, and vehicle names being randomly generated (shadowsword doesnt make it into the 6 variants listed under the shadowsword/stormlord entry)
plus i only found the blood angels dex by really looking for it, took me a while, its not a very simple navigation system for all the hobby elements.
GW website: Silver star, could do better ;)
I won't complain if it turns out to be true ... just too coincidentally timed. ;)
Cry more.
Also, warmachine ultrasmurfs casuals 90% fanboys stormshields lash prince 2e 3e money.
The books been out of print for years, and most Shops don't have em. I tried to get one During Christmas for a buddy and Ebays the place you can..
Quite frankly, I don't even want a new codex. Some new plastics might be nice, but I enjoy the look on my opponents face when I pull utterly ridiculous plays because of the Wolves' "outdated" rules.
As for people whining about how SW should be in the same book as loyalists... would you put Chaos in that book? How about BT? All three of those have about equal amounts in common with the standard SM book. BA and DA could easily be integrated into Codex: Ultramarines with minimum changes-> BA have death company and Baal Preds and DA have ravenwing and Deathwing. Not a whole lot of difference.
SW on the other hand are nothing like normal SM. Their scouts are elites with different rules, weapons, and background. Their bloodclaws have different armour and weapons than scouts or assault marines. Their Grey Hunters are completely different from tac marines. They can take Leman Russ tanks. They can have Ven Dreds as HQ. They have the retinues rule. You can give wolf guard battle leaders assault cannons. Long fangs only come in units of 5 and can split fire. They don't have apothecaries, honour guard, command squads, chaplains, librarians, or techmarines. Fitting SW into the standard marine book is like putting chaos space marines in there. If you try it no one will be happy in the end.
Maybe some of the Xenos players should stick their head outside of the hole in the ground they keep it in. All space marines aren't the same-> DA, BA, and Ultramarines mostly are, but BT and SW are about as different from normal SM as chaos is and I don't see anyone screaming about how they should have been integrated into the new space marine book.
BTW before anyone asks, I'm a nids player, not an SM player (though I've been considering an SW army for a long time, ever since I read Space Wolf for the first time).
Having said that, I hadn't realised the SW codex was actually out of print, that does make them a priority. I'm just thinking ahead, based on the rumours going around; looks like the first four codexes of 5th edition will be Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Space Wolves and Daemonhunters. Pattern emerging.
More than half of our range is mail order only, our codex has been out of print for ages, is no longer on shelves, and seems to be only available in .pdf.
Even so, that .pdf is of a 11 year old, 3rd ediition codex, and even then, its a SUPLLEMENT codex, that refers to C:SM, and using a lot of rules that dont even exist.
Yea, that nice Wolf Priest that "counts as" having a Natheicum and Reductor.... yea, about that, we know his points cost include them, but dont worry, they dont acutally DO anything now, it says see C:SM to find out what they do.
A lot of our book is like that.
Seriously, its about time.
And as for Wolf players not getting excited..... people have been telling us we are getting a new book for about 4 years now.
Until its actually in our hands, most of us are just bitter at this point.
Thanks Games Workshop.
Dark Eldar or Necrons better be next tho :P lol
The Space Wolves have one of the longest and deepest histories out there. Our background started in the Rouge Trader days and we got our first codex in 2nd edition.
The sad thing is, we got our second codex in 3rd edition... and we havent had another since.
The Space Wolves rules are 2 editions and nearly 12 years out of date.
To all of those players who say "cant you be happy with Space Marine rules?", try asking a Dark Eldar player why they arnt happy using the Eldar codex.
I'm sorry, but the Space Wolves DESERVE a new book.
We have waited (some of us even patiently, or at least quietly drunkenly).
We have struggled through a book that is well WELL out of date.
We have served our time.
To those out there with a book that is 2,3,5 years out of date and complaining, tough.
The only other players I have simpathy for right now are Dark Eldar. They are in the same boat as us.
I have to agree, SW are a very different army that play very differently to the other marines, and have far too may different troop types to fit in the same codex.
Some thoughts on what the new codex may bring:
Special rules section;
ATSKNF - will follow USR
Drop Pods - will now get drop pod assault (from C:SM)
Mixed Armour - no longer needed due to 5e way in which wounds/saves are handled
Will Not Teleport - Only affects Termies anyway, but as they can drop pod, no problem
Acute Senses - as per USR
Blood Feud - most likely become Prefered Enemies: Dark Angels and Thou. Sons, if it gets kept in.
Counter Attack - As per 5e USR
No Matter The Odds: My biggest gripe with the 5e FAQ - it does nothing. Not very "wolfy" at all, IMO. Hopefully they'll all get Stubborn USR, or at least if accompanied by Wolf Guard Leaders
True Grit: OK, no biggy if it gets left out - rather than "replace BP/CCW for Bolter/CCW" for GH packs, just let them take bolters as an additional weapon, similar to Chaos Marines.
----------------------------
Army List:
Retinues Rule: Would be nice if it got rounded out to 1HQ/1000pts. As it is, it's annoying that at a 1000pt game, you need 2HQ, and that's where most of the 250 points difference from a 750 point army goes.
Rune Priest: MORE POWERS PLEASE! I like Stormcaller, but a wider choice (albeit different from the current marine powers) would be nicer.
Ven Dread: If the retinues rule stays at 750, keep Ven dread as HQ/Elites choice. If it goes to 1000, Elites only.
Wolf Guard: Keep the bodyguard as is, make the Leaders a squad upgrade, like Vet Sgts in normal marine units.
Wolf Scouts: Hey, who can argue with a BS4 sniper rifle these days? :) Though will most likely keep Infiltrators/Move through cover, and lose Behind Enemy Lines in favour of the Outflank rule
Iron Priests: Servo harness would be nice...(SW only get servo arm atm...)
Blood Claws: I've read previously that they may lose Berserk Charge to Furious Charge, and go up to WS4. Looking through the USR section, it wouldn't surprise me if they get Rage as well (unless accompanied by a Wolf Guard or other IC).
Blood Claws Bike Pack: Be nice to have bikes and Jump pack units as separate entries.
Leman Russ Exterminator: Be nice if we had access to more variants. As it is, the Exterminator is a replacement for the Pred Destructor. Having a Demolisher as an alternate to a Vindicator would be an idea.
------------------------------------
Armoury/Wargear:
Needs a damn good tidy up and stop referencing C:SM. Things like Mastercrafted weapon refer to C:SM, where, under 3e/4e it could be taken by Termies, but not by SW termies. Fang Of Morkai - "counts as reductor - see C:SM" but there's no entry for "reductor" any more (allows you to ignore models within range when checking the 25% shooting casualties check, iirc), hence is pointless taking. 'Healing potions and balms' were the equiv of a narthecium, but have their own rules written up, so, contra to my earlier post (as Anon), don't confer FNP. (was only going with what the person I'd replied to wrote, without checking C:SW).
-------------------
At the end of the day, I daresay I'll be generally happy with whatever they do to the Wolves (unless they all become worse than grots). Wolves are my first and largest army (about 6k for now, with everything on the table), and yes, there are some nice loopholes with the current rules and codex that will hopefully be ironed out (put a Wolf Priest or Lord with 15 B Claws then say "charge me" - Ld10 check for +2 attacks/model on the counter-charge). Hey, I like it, but it is taking the frak a bit......
More fluff, some nice new artwork, a smoother army list (less page flicking, please! -I like the new C:SM 'all options in the entry' business), a redesigned upgrades pack (like the DA sprues), and a few foaming tankards of Fenrisian ale, and all will be good :)
With that out of the way, I'm excited if this is true. SW were my first army when I start playing 11 years ago. I haven't gotten quite as bitter as some other SW players, which probably helps though I have picked up Tau in the meantime.
I'm personally hoping when this arrives that there will be some new special rules a la Orbital Strike or Litanies of Hate for our HQs. This and our Wargear options are probably my 2 biggest beefs with the SW Codex at this point. Also, some kind of update No Matter the Odds rule, since it was made non-functional for 5th edition.
Other items:
Grey Hunters with Bolters and Bolt Pistols
Iron Priest model and rules that aren't fail
New Rune Priest powers
13th company rules integrated
Model Range:
New Special Character models (and maybe some more special chars period).
Terminator conversion kit (Forgeworld has nice torso's etc, but I want weapon options as well)
Power Armored Wolf Guard models (that collectors range model is hotness, more please)
Some additional weapon sprue choices (plasma gun, flamers)
New scout models
I agree Chaos have had too many updates - Precisely one too many! Fair play, I'd have been very happy if they'd updated Space Wolves instead of Chaos last time round.
This codex news, coupled with the new IG stuff only confirms that they won't be seeing the table again anytime soon.
*goes back to painting Orks*
They DO need an update, but there are a lot of 3rd Edition Legacy Codexes that do as well. The problem with GW in this regard is their overreach. Now they are 2 editions ahead of certain codexes and it's glaringly evident of their neglect of staple armies (Wolves & BAs come to mind) in favor of the army / models du jour of the time. "How could they forget about Wolves? They're one of the big 4 chapters?" I hear all the time, but up until the SM codex Ultramarines only got to fondly look back to 2nd edition for their codex.
The problem with Space Wolves is that the codex is so old that it is confusing. Yes, you can play them, and if you're a good player and read your rules carefully, you will know what you're doing. Your opponent, however, will be very confused and will have to take your word for how the army works. And THAT is why SW need a new book. At the moment, someone playing against SW needs to read their codex, read the marine codex, read both FAQs, and then think about it for a good hour before he's going to have a decent understanding of what is legal and what is not.
SW need the new book to eliminate confusion, because anyone who has played SWs knows how much of a mish-mash their rules are. More than Dark Eldar, more than the Inquisition, and certainly more than Chaos, SWs need to be updated simply to keep the rules clear.
Space Wolves have had their own codex since there were codexes for armies to have. The idea that every army is created equal, that Night Lords deserve a book as much as Space Wolves, is crazy. By updating SW now, GW will clear up the rules for a far greater number of people than if they redo any other army.
CODEX SPACE SHARKS NOW!!!