Bell of Lost Souls - Latest Comments in 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Decoy — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:59:29 -0000

Wolves, by their current nature, are a rather unpredictable list. At their optimal, they're highly drop-pod oriented, resulting in not only a lack of reliability in dropping, but they're also forced into a strategically indefensible position unless luck is on their side. As ground-pounders, they have much more than that against them; The ridiculous amount of shooting that 5th Edition has brought to the field renders footsloggers if not unfeasible, then at least significantly more difficult. Without the mindless numbers provided with Nids, or the indestructible transports such as those with Eldar, a groundpounding Wolves army requires significantly more strategic assembly, positioning, and maneuvering than even the most basic of almost any other army, perhaps save Chaos. Taubois simply Mech-out, speed around, and generally do nothing but shoot. Eldar have at least the Harlies to their credit, but when everyone uses them, what's so special? It's just a testament that to some people, one unit will make an army. You build an Eldar Harlie list, yeah, you'll win, but damned if you get comp or sportsmanship from me. I play the game not just to win (which I do on a more-than-regular basis), but to have fun with it. I do things other gamers wouldn't, just because it fits with the fluff of my army. I make lists that aren't designed to win, but they do anyways, primarily thanks to strategy, but with no small hand of luck involved.

Wolves nowadays are forced to either play with intelligence and cunning, as the game is meant, or to play with no great hope of winning, for the love of the game. That can't be said for Eldar, or Tau, most Nids, or Chaos; at least, not as a whole. Anyone can play a cheeseball army and win, they may even say they're having fun, but when I show up and kick the hell outta ya using a fluffy list filled not with minmax but with just the attitude of the army, don't bitch. You're just getting taught how to play the game the right way.

Sit down, shut up, and play like you got a pair, or don't waste my time. Post something useful or get the hell out.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Damon — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:36:46 -0000

So Tau and Eldar are mere "sit back and shoot armies"? SW require true tactical genius to play?

Pompous much?

Who is the ignorant savage here that really does need to get over himself, I wonder.... ;)

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Decoy — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:03:34 -0000

Get over yourself. The Wolves of Fenris are easily one of the most popular armies out there, one way or another; the only people that don't like them are those that don't have the intelligence to beat them. Read; You.

I play the Wolves because I love the fluff, the heritage, the theme, the "screws to that, we do what fits us" attitude. Sure, it's a bit single minded, the army at any rate, but in a time of changing codices and game style, the fact that the Wolves can continue to be a competitive force just shows the overall balanced nature of our army. It takes skill to run an army that's generally pretty straightforward like the Wolves, and those that run simple "Sit back, shoot" armies like Tau or Eldar wouldn't have a hope in hell of understanding the nuances of an army like the Wolves.

Get off your high horse, and go suck on an Eldar, you self-righteous ignorant savage.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

gtbb — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:09:58 -0000

Sadly I don't believe in a new Codex any soon. The disappearing dosn't mean anything in my eyes, here in Germany it has been taken out of sale like 3 years ago. ( Thank god I still got mine ^^). I don't know what you're complaining about so much, SW ARE different then the "normal" marines and you've got nearly no chance to play SW armys with the new SM codex.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Anonymous player — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:34:02 -0000

Forget Space Wolves...

CODEX SPACE SHARKS NOW!!!

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

hrudboy — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 18:03:51 -0000

Why'd you have to lower the tone like that? Why??? I'd just extended an olive branch ffs

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

pdelair — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:17:04 -0000

Not to mention that even GW has a hard time keeping the rules straight. Between WGBL getting heavy weapons (and seriously, I have no idea how they came to that conclusion in the latest FAQ), the multiple variations on how Stormcaller works, or probably half a dozen other items that have have been mashed up in FAQ's or aren't clear from recent changes (Wolf Pelts + new counter attack USR for example), GW has done a fairly good job of muddying things further.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

pdelair — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:08:49 -0000

Wow, way to show a little rage there. Some of us are quite fond of our wolves and I assure thet it has zero to do with having to use two codex's. BTW, what are you reffereing to as best because other than some equipment changes (Assault Cannons) that have slightly improved or hindered us (see all the stuff we have that doesn't work now) and vehicles, we don't use anything out of the main book.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Bijyu — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:03:22 -0000

No Sanguinius? I wonder why? OH! Because hes a PRIMARCH! Of course the dex doesn't have him.

As for the retards of fenris. They are despised by every 40k player I know. I have yet to find an actual fan of them. I wish for once it was the space wolves who had their hamstrings cut and were fed to the kraken.

Now that isnt to say no one I know plays them. I have seen a couple people who use them and why? Because they get the best of two codex's since most of their codex tells them to just use the vanilla marine codex anyways.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Sethe — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:51:54 -0000

I'm literally laughing out loud.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

SoonerBrian — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:34:38 -0000

Space Wolves are very VERY strong with their current codex, if you use the correct builds. Remember that they use the weapon stats from the current SM codex, but keep the options from back when all those weapons sucked. So having 4 assault cannons and storm shields in your Wolf Guard squad was no big deal back in 3rd, but it's a big deal now.

The problem with Space Wolves is that the codex is so old that it is confusing. Yes, you can play them, and if you're a good player and read your rules carefully, you will know what you're doing. Your opponent, however, will be very confused and will have to take your word for how the army works. And THAT is why SW need a new book. At the moment, someone playing against SW needs to read their codex, read the marine codex, read both FAQs, and then think about it for a good hour before he's going to have a decent understanding of what is legal and what is not.

SW need the new book to eliminate confusion, because anyone who has played SWs knows how much of a mish-mash their rules are. More than Dark Eldar, more than the Inquisition, and certainly more than Chaos, SWs need to be updated simply to keep the rules clear.

Space Wolves have had their own codex since there were codexes for armies to have. The idea that every army is created equal, that Night Lords deserve a book as much as Space Wolves, is crazy. By updating SW now, GW will clear up the rules for a far greater number of people than if they redo any other army.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Matthew_Rider — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 12:01:21 -0000

I agree with you fully- though I think that chaos should get more codexes, not Imperials get less, I just hate the way only Ultramarine are described in detail

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

pdelair — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:33:11 -0000

I don't think they are horribly uncompetitive, but the tool box is very bare when compared to almost everyone else.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Eldanesh — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:07:40 -0000

This is a tough call. I don't play Wolves, but my regular gaming buddy does, and for the last 2-3 months they're been 'counts-as' CSMs because the codex is so outdated it's unplayable, or at least non-competitive. GW needed to throw the Wolves a bone.

They DO need an update, but there are a lot of 3rd Edition Legacy Codexes that do as well. The problem with GW in this regard is their overreach. Now they are 2 editions ahead of certain codexes and it's glaringly evident of their neglect of staple armies (Wolves & BAs come to mind) in favor of the army / models du jour of the time. "How could they forget about Wolves? They're one of the big 4 chapters?" I hear all the time, but up until the SM codex Ultramarines only got to fondly look back to 2nd edition for their codex.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

hrudboy — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:55:41 -0000

Thanks, pdelair. Hope you get what you want from the new SW codex.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

pdelair — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:17:12 -0000

I meant to add that I definitely emphasize with all the ksons, Death Guard, etc players out there who lost their armies to the new CSM codex. I certainly baulk at the idea of using Codex Marines for my SW as some people have suggested.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

pdelair — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:14:54 -0000

Yeah, the gutting they did to specifc legion armies was not cool either. As to your above post I think both DE and Necrons should be next followed by anything else still in 3rd edition (which I think means Daemonhunters and Witch hunters?)

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

hrudboy — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:11:33 -0000

CSM armies all have to use the same codex right now. That's nine distinct and wildly different forces all using the same rules. It's like expecting Space Wolves, Black Templars, Blood Angles etc to all use the same codex.
I agree Chaos have had too many updates - Precisely one too many! Fair play, I'd have been very happy if they'd updated Space Wolves instead of Chaos last time round.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

hrudboy — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:06:29 -0000

Or the Traitor Legions, they're all using the same 'dex right now :( It really is the same as expecting Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Black Templars to all use the Ultramarines rules. It sucks

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

hrudboy — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 10:02:19 -0000

Sheesh, that does sound harsh. Ok, hope you get and enjoy your update.
Dark Eldar or Necrons better be next tho :P lol

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Nash — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:33:46 -0000

It depends on the "angle" from with you look at it...

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

obsequiousmelon — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:33:20 -0000

It would be so much better for GW to do imperial xenos imperial xenos with their codex releases. I hear people say that Space marines sell more but surely that is a little short sited from GW. Part of the appeal is the diversity and I think that just releasing imperial codexes one after another is getting a little old. Looking long term it will eventually put players off and harm the gaming culture because, god knows, playing different space marine iterations does get dull. Ok so at the moment you get orks as well quite often and no doubt we will get a butt load of guard armies in may but when I look around my FLGS I want to see examples of many different armies rather than the few I see at the moment, I want to look forward to the challenge of playing against all those races that I read about. Diversity breeds survivability and I think GW should consider that.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

Starion — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:25:23 -0000

Yeah, more fluff would be cool. Bring back some of the back-stories that were missing from the last edition ( Like The Lion and The Wolf - the reason for SWs hating on the DAs ).
Some thoughts on what the new codex may bring:
Special rules section;

ATSKNF - will follow USR

Drop Pods - will now get drop pod assault (from C:SM)

Mixed Armour - no longer needed due to 5e way in which wounds/saves are handled

Will Not Teleport - Only affects Termies anyway, but as they can drop pod, no problem

Acute Senses - as per USR

Blood Feud - most likely become Prefered Enemies: Dark Angels and Thou. Sons, if it gets kept in.

Counter Attack - As per 5e USR

No Matter The Odds: My biggest gripe with the 5e FAQ - it does nothing. Not very "wolfy" at all, IMO. Hopefully they'll all get Stubborn USR, or at least if accompanied by Wolf Guard Leaders

True Grit: OK, no biggy if it gets left out - rather than "replace BP/CCW for Bolter/CCW" for GH packs, just let them take bolters as an additional weapon, similar to Chaos Marines.
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Army List:

Retinues Rule: Would be nice if it got rounded out to 1HQ/1000pts. As it is, it's annoying that at a 1000pt game, you need 2HQ, and that's where most of the 250 points difference from a 750 point army goes.

Rune Priest: MORE POWERS PLEASE! I like Stormcaller, but a wider choice (albeit different from the current marine powers) would be nicer.

Ven Dread: If the retinues rule stays at 750, keep Ven dread as HQ/Elites choice. If it goes to 1000, Elites only.

Wolf Guard: Keep the bodyguard as is, make the Leaders a squad upgrade, like Vet Sgts in normal marine units.

Wolf Scouts: Hey, who can argue with a BS4 sniper rifle these days? :) Though will most likely keep Infiltrators/Move through cover, and lose Behind Enemy Lines in favour of the Outflank rule

Iron Priests: Servo harness would be nice...(SW only get servo arm atm...)

Blood Claws: I've read previously that they may lose Berserk Charge to Furious Charge, and go up to WS4. Looking through the USR section, it wouldn't surprise me if they get Rage as well (unless accompanied by a Wolf Guard or other IC).

Blood Claws Bike Pack: Be nice to have bikes and Jump pack units as separate entries.

Leman Russ Exterminator: Be nice if we had access to more variants. As it is, the Exterminator is a replacement for the Pred Destructor. Having a Demolisher as an alternate to a Vindicator would be an idea.
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Armoury/Wargear:

Needs a damn good tidy up and stop referencing C:SM. Things like Mastercrafted weapon refer to C:SM, where, under 3e/4e it could be taken by Termies, but not by SW termies. Fang Of Morkai - "counts as reductor - see C:SM" but there's no entry for "reductor" any more (allows you to ignore models within range when checking the 25% shooting casualties check, iirc), hence is pointless taking. 'Healing potions and balms' were the equiv of a narthecium, but have their own rules written up, so, contra to my earlier post (as Anon), don't confer FNP. (was only going with what the person I'd replied to wrote, without checking C:SW).

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At the end of the day, I daresay I'll be generally happy with whatever they do to the Wolves (unless they all become worse than grots). Wolves are my first and largest army (about 6k for now, with everything on the table), and yes, there are some nice loopholes with the current rules and codex that will hopefully be ironed out (put a Wolf Priest or Lord with 15 B Claws then say "charge me" - Ld10 check for +2 attacks/model on the counter-charge). Hey, I like it, but it is taking the frak a bit......
More fluff, some nice new artwork, a smoother army list (less page flicking, please! -I like the new C:SM 'all options in the entry' business), a redesigned upgrades pack (like the DA sprues), and a few foaming tankards of Fenrisian ale, and all will be good :)

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

pdelair — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:16:03 -0000

Yeah I'm definitely not arguing the you need a new dex ASAP too. Funny about the Orks since they were the only dex in even worse shape than SW and DE going into 5th.

Re: 40K RUMORS: Space Wolves Chatter

xbruthamanx — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:03:02 -0000

The Blood Angles only gained their "history" in thrid edition to sell the new line of blood angles miniatures. They were one of the 4 space marine chapters on the main 40k boxed set, but they played more similarly to a codex chapter than they do today. The "masters of assault" load of crap that blood angles claim as their chapter heritage was barely mentioned in the Angles Of Death codex (2nd edition, blood angles/ dark angles codex).