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Thanks!
Post an unbeatable army on any forum and see how long it takes for someone to show you how they would beat it ;o)
Really worried about wolves? Start a new army...
Don't worry it will all be fine
Obviously you're only playing the army because its a 'powerful' one and now that one that takes your toys and makes them more powerful suddenly its stupid and evil and no good.
Its the nature of the game we play, GW is putting hordes of money into producing new models and rules, so obviously they have to make them more powerful than an army that hasn't had an official codex in how long to make back their losses.
Suck. It. Up.
So relax and stop freaking out. Besides half this stuff will probably altered or not true.
SW back, baby
FTW!!!!
:P
I can't wait for the Wolves to be let loose. I started painting mine today.
As a Dark Angel Player,
It's not that they get shiny new toys and cool models and other things. It's that what's the point in playing a codex that isn't unique. It would be the same thing if SW got death company like the BAs and can have assault marines as troops and rhinos that can move an additional X amount and a Baal pred or an emperor's champion with vows with neophytes and the moral check thing that allows you to move X inches. Thing that make a codex unique is why people purchase and play different armies. People are only complaining that the army that's "unique" (thus befitting a separate codex than just "[codex: space marine]) isn't unique anymore. It doesn't matter about the point costs or if another dex is "stronger" or "cheesy". It's the fact that the codex is obsolete rule wise and only functions as a background material.
Now, I understand that this is just a rumor, but if it is real, regardless on how they're going to balance the costs etc. If they are able to make an all terminator army (not saying it will be good or not), it takes away the ONLY thing that makes Dark Angels unique (as C:SM has already allowed bikes to be troops.) [other than the only non-eldar Jetbike available.
/end explanation.
Gameplay-wise it's totally ok, if there is an small numbered army with strong units, mighty psykers or what-ever, the point-costs will balance out in the end. I think we agree on this.
The big problem for me is the whole background. Why does it has to be uber-space-marines on crack? You could write deep and characterfull SW-codex, without extreme stats and point costs.
For me, a space-marine ist the top of the human race, no matter wich order they belong to, they are always awesome.
That is the reason, why i like the DA-Codex. It's unique, you can do interestings stuff, have some fun and all that without highpriced uber-rules/models.
So my point: SW should still stay SM and not diverge that much as the rumours let us assume. Leave Psi to the Eldar, +1 Attack due to 2 CCWs to Chaos etc. and you will still have PLANTY of room, to make SW cool und unique.
People buy stuff from GW because they love the fluff and the models, not because of the rules. This is how it works for me and my group.
And I think that saying Bolters, Bolt Pistols, and Close Combat Weapons are the reserved to Chaos because it makes them unique is a load of poop. The Icons are what them them flavorful. The Cult troops are the amazing power center, T5 Feel No Pain troops? WS5, Furious Charge with 4 Attacks troops? Those are crazy good, and the fluffy fun filled center and uniqueness of Chaos. Plus having elites that are mutated marines, walking gun-blobs, and a Daemon Possessed Vehicle of a design never seen until the traitors exited the Warp? Those make Chaos pretty unique.
Just throwing out some counter-points.
It's good that the Wolves are a divergent chapter. All i wanted to underline with some examples like the +1A is, that you can make a space wolvish chapter without extremes. And you point at the same direction with your Chaos examples.
But SW are still space marines and not 10.000 old half human/half daemon marines. I think it's a bit stupid, that the wolves are the only clever ones to say: hey let's pick these bolt pistols too, so we can fight better.
For CSM it just represents their huge battle experience, even for the normal warriors.
If SW are so blood thirsty, why not give all of them a variant of Furious Charge, that gives +1WS and +1I instead of +1S and +1I.
Simple solution without driving them totally away from the other marines. In the end they are still equal brothers, which should be somehow represented gamewise.
I want the wolves at the tables to be known as cool nordic/viking marines and NOT as just the uber-marines, who always field AV13 Cybots and wolfriding Space Marines.
I like what Omach is saying. Fluffwise, I think the best way to represent SW would be with improved WS. They don't need the equipment of a CSM to be unique, it's all in the fluff. I'd love to see Space Wolves be an army that isn't as great as other marines at shooting, but puts the enemy in a difficult position when it comes to assault. Do I charge these SWs, or do I let them charge me? It would be interesting if either way you knew it was going to be a tough fight.
Space Wolves are supposed to be two things:
BAD ASS
EXPENSIVE
And I'm certain with very few exceptions, mostly everything in the SW codex will be very expensive points wise and also very BAD ASS.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cyclone/Assault Cannon combo return.
Oh, and in regards to the whining about the troops getting two free special weapons for 120 points for ten men, I don't think the SW are going to be getting meltaguns for that price. In fact the "free" weapons will most likely be flamers, with a very costly upgrade to melta.
Bjorn should be AV14, after all, he's only been around for 10,000 years
Space Wolves are going to need be tough as they are facing two very tough opponents now in the Orks and the Imperial Guard.
i think the dark angels codex is one of the best codices ever written and if id play them, i would use some vindicators and throw large templates on these expensive space wolves troops.
Seeing as the SW Codex was the basis for the majority of the codecies afterward I can tell you from the heart to suck it up, happens to us all.
You boy are a fool! Been playing DAs since you were 12? So you're 13 then?
I can't belive I have to tell yet another morron this, The RAven Wing are not the White Scars, Or the Space Wolves, or the Black Templars or the Blood Angels. They are a Scout and a Hit & Run Force If you are smashing headlong into the foe with the Master of the Ravenwing of course he gets slaughtered, as does the rest of his army. You harrass the the enemy with your guns then retreat and redeploy and then once they start to chase you and get spread out and seperated, youhit 'em hard and fast where they are weakest, and then get the hell out anmd rinse and repeat!
But hey what would I know just been playing the Ravenwing on and off for 15 years, since 2nd ed...
But seriously, GW! Since when are Space Wolves the end-all-be-all warriors of the galaxy? I have nothing against them, but come on! You can make a divergent chapter without juicing up the power. I've never heard anything about massive Space Wolf Terminator armies, and this makes it sound like Njal is going to be the strongest psyker out there.
Maybe I have to wait to see the other codexes get redone for 5th edition, but if any of the Space Wolves have ridiculous stats (think Cassius ridiculous) then I am praying that the Tyranid codex is altered to stay in line with this gross inflation. GW may have to raise the cap on stats from 10 to like 15.
im going to put a personal complaint into GW about our codex
Suck it up.
I bet you had a fit every time someone wanted to put in a complaint to GW over the Dark Angels Codex came out...Why don't you wait until the CODEX comes out to have such a temper tantrum...
And we all know that did not happen!
Therefore, there was no need to get a "fit", at least not about it being over powered!
I expect monstrous creatures to have higher stats than a guardsman, ork, eldar, or even a space marine. So when I saw that Cassius was given a toughness of 6, my mind was blown. I think that is one of the biggest errors GW has ever made.
NOW, rumors are saying that Space Wolves will have "extreme (sic) stats." If that is true, there may be other gross atrocities similar to the Cassius situation. I understand point costs aren't comparable between codexes, but stats are. So when I see a SM Character with a toughness of 6, I immediately think "Hey, that's a Space Marine that is somehow tougher than the biggest orks, most Daemon Princes, and any mortal Lord of Nurgle, and as tough as a Daemon Prince of Nurgle, a Greater Daemon of Nurgle, a Hive Tyrant, and the Tyrant Guard." Among other things. So I am leery to see what might be in this Space Wolf codex, and if the stats are extreme, I hope that Nids are adjusted to fit.
Rant over, the wolves book certainly looks interesting, and I'm waiting to see what the book really says before crying about my Dark Angels, unlike most of the Internet, it seems.
Then logically, we have to represent CSM the same, so give them the same stats. Oh, and any that are the ancient traitors from the heresy, well, they've been living for thousands of years and so at the very least should have a much greater WS and BS. Then there's the ones who have ascended to Daemonhood, so their stats are even beyond a regular SM! And even greater than the daemon princes are the greater daemons themselves, so by this time we'd probably be seeing S and T scores of around 20.
Space Marines aren't the strongest and toughest warriors in the galaxy. There's much worse out there. Their strength lies in their supreme tactics (hard to fully translate in a game), undying faith (also hard, unless you want to play Sisters), and the support of the IG and the rest of the human universe. So if you want Space Marines to have ridiculous stats, then you have to be prepared for a lot of other things to follow suit.
As for S20 Bloodthirsters, well... Bring it on!
And I am not a SM hater, I have a Space Marine army of my own. I love playing with and against SMs. However, there are a couple things GW has done that I feel is inconsistant with fluff when it wasn't necessary or it didn't make sense, and this is one of those occasions (don't even get me started on how force weapons don't work against daemons!).
Personally, I was more floored that col. iron hand Straken hits like a MC.
So if there had been a precedent such as that on Cassius that worked similar to having a toughness 6, I'd understand. I believe before he had bionics, but there's no way that translates to somehow getting 2 more points of toughness.
'Nids still have the all MC army, but in any game where they need to deal with armor, skimmers, or take objectives, they are in for a world of hurt.
If it wasn't for all those second turn assaults of hive tyrants and little guys overwhelming even landraiders through sheer number of attacks, I'd see your point. Nids do not need ranged firepower. The rending nerf in 5th was needed for them.
Not gonna happen. Don't forget the incredible amount of options you get in the vanilla dex. If spaces can beat the current trend, there are plenty of more very different options to try out.
gh with the works i think not
no 1 knows if this is truse false or what yet we still get people saying
well ill start a new armi or i'll write complains wait for the codx at least!
as a space wolf player its great but there is no way to justify a terminator first company sw dont work remotly like that
Well, good bye thousands of point of Dark Angels and Deathwing. Regular marines do everything you do better, and now Space Wolves can do the one thing you had going for you, and they can do it better too. Yay....
Seriously now, lets keep the knee-jerk whining down.
BTW, Red Scorpions rock.
I don't even understand why there is a special DA codex at all. The vanilla could cover them well with a character like belial.
IMHO only Black templars and space wolves may need a special codex. I only wish it would be as balanced as the SM codex.
Um...whom FFS is GW trying to impress here ?? Little kids crazed for quasi-nordic fairy-tales ? A thrown thunder hammer that explodes and then magically respawns back in a marine's hand.... yeah, rly. (rollseyes)
If this sucker is true, there's no way I'm taking him, ON PRINCIPLE.
(and it's spelled Thor, BTW)
And GW could have done it a litte bit more "subtle" than riping Mjölnir straight off....
lets calm down and see.
bolter, bpistol and ccweapon seams a good replacement for true-grit.
If you think that's the only thing Chaos has, you have not been playing Chaos correctly...
Something tells me Space Wolves will not be getting Toughness 5 Feel No Pain troops...
As for not playing cults... Complaining about not playing cults is like a space marine player who runs a scout army complaining that his troops don't get power armor.
What if (And this is only a suggestion) WE WOULD LIKE TO PLAY MORE THAN 1 VIABLE LIST!?
Chaos has got the poopy end of the stick with codices. We don't play armies we play colour schemes.
C'mon DA players...come to the side of abused by the codex...nothing to do with the ruinous powers, I swear...
Plauge Marines are the best thing since T5 terminators, and berzerkers are the best power armored assault unit in any codex. For crying out loud, 8 of them can take out half of a full strength boyz mob on the charge.
Throw in deamon possesed vindicators (i.e. stupidity incarnate), cheap terminators and a few decent HQs and you have yourself a monster army. Even if you go with basic marines and a khorne banner, they will still be able to do everything that a Tac squad can for a little more and be 3 times as deadly in CC. As we all found out lately, ATSKNF is more of a disadvantage against assault heavy armies anyway as it forces you to provide your enemy with a meat shield they can use to guard against your shooting.
DP Vindi's are nasty, yes but frankly the vindi models not great and I don't want one. WHAT DID I JUSTS AY ABOUT PM'S?
Cheap termies I don't agree with as aren't the meant to be rare as all hell? We should pay more for them.
All in all what I'm saying is-we have 1 (at a push 2) viable lists. And now SW's are getting ever awesome toy under the sun. You have no idea how depressing it is to see everyone who plays your factio using the same list.
I play WoC in fantasy. Most of my opponents are DoC or VC. Play that and tell me 40k isn't fair.
As for your complaining, seriously, shut up. The chaos book is good, and so far, you've only stated that "I don't like how the vindi looks". So make your own? Stop complaining and DO SOMETHING about it. Play stuff that no one else plays.
Try this list:
2 chaos lords, both with deamon weapons on bikes
3x10 possessed
2x10 marines w/ 2 melta guns
3x8 chaos bikes
Go. Have fun.
I love my CSM army... but at the same time, i'm beginning to loath myself for playing it. Let's face it, I only have 1 'viable' list, with one set of 'viable' units, and the book itself hasn't got any character at all!
Infact, that's probably why I try to build my lists as if they're 'Pre-Heresy'. Makes me feel better, and feel less like a cheese monkey when I play it...
And tbh space wolves do need some major rule changes. As right now they do suck something cronik. Think about it this way the normal guys you are all whinning about having acute sences, counter attack with boltor, bolt-pistol and ccw urm thats basically the same as any grey knight. But you don't go around complainning about that now do you. And plus for all you know their stat line might be absolutely rubbish like space marine scouts rubbish. Why not wait and see what happens before you go around creaming in your trousers.
So a grey night is 10 points more eh... maybe because of the S6 weapon, Storm Bolter, WS 5, the Shrouding, and built in psychic resistance. Where else can you get all that for 10 points? Sounds fair to me.
If you're gonna cry cheese, at least wait for the codex, do some research, and think a little first.
And to people complaining that SW don't need to be more powerful, read the fluff. they have always been described as being stronger, faster and hairier as well as having better senses. in return they sometimes turn into wolves. which must suck.
Ahahaha. No.
Right now we have the single most broken codex available thanks to the FAQ, mixing the best of the SW and SM codices. We don't NEED an update at all. I still regularly table folk with my guys despite being outnumbered worse than Grey Knights sometimes.
I actually look forward to being outnumbered more, and screwing with people's heads as they get overconfident.
In the end it will come down to some badass characters and little else.
The complaints about Space Wolves being "beardy" lends a rather ironic humor to them too.
Let me guess...The Sliepner variant of Rhino, only usable by SW provides a Rhino chassis with side assault doors and transports 5 Termies.
And despite using "Rune Priests" (again, the distrust of magic and slieght of hand tactics) they now will field one of the strongest Psykers in the game.
Any bets the SW ChapterMaster has Lightning Claws and close combat stats like Abaddon along with built in Assault Cannons (twin link of course) and shoots like Marneus.
The Klaws of Odin.
Say I'm writing a story about a boy and his dog. They get along great. Then the dog for some reason attacks the boy, and he becomes scared of dogs. It would take a lot of writing skill for me to convince my readers that out of no where, the boy loves dogs again.
If these rumors are true I guarantee we'll see wolf armies spamming the hell out of ten man squads wielding double melta's.
As far as game stats go, they are probably going to be notably familiar if these rumours are true.
Also iafter reading the comments i feel sad that there are so many people who play this game and i'm sure who love it as much as i do but yet whenever a new codex comes out all hell breaks loose with people saying that its going to be 'cheesey' or 'broken' ect. But after a couple of months everything settles down because it simply isn't. It just seems to me that the only reason it gets like this is because there's a new codex coming out and it isn't an updated one for their chosen army. Well deal with it. The only other people i feel can complain are Inquisition players and Dark Eldar players who both need an update.
Thats all i have to say about this.
Blackmane
P.S. If you think im saying this as a SW player I'm not I'm an 'Nid player.
Pointing out a fault does not by any means diminish another fault.
DE and DH are old codices and should be updated, but DA is still a total failure and the things people are upset about are the strange inconsistency in point cost versus stats and equipment compared to similar codices.
In addition, that the few things that was a unique thing to DA is now done better by other codices.