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that thing is damn ugly, whoever designed it has never seen a wolf, it doesnt bear any resemblance to any form of canine and therefore is not identifiable as such, what we are left with is a hideous gremlin/pug hybrid that GW are calling a wolf.
Seriously, sack the sculptor or recall the design and give him a book about canine species.
#1 GW should be ashamed
#2 People who whined about power creep when codex IG was released sould be forced to eat my shoe-leather
#3 I refuse to play against space wolf players unless forced in a tourney, in which case I will table them just like I table every other MEQ army 95% of the time. Stupid GW...
That said, my CSM's probably won't like this army one bit, as they get all the same goodies (at least in relation to basic CSM's) but also get that wonderfully amazing Counterattack along with ATSKNF for the same cost.
No one uses 2 weapons from horseback (or wolfback). Its stupid, and it doesn't work.
You tell this guy that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsKYXmaNsRo
As for the Space Wolves, I'm glad they've finally got an update and the whole saga idea seems pretty cool and fitting of the fluff (I don't play them by the way). Regarding the models, I think the standard Tac models look really good, and with a reported 30 or so head options there should be enough helmets or variations to give players the choice to not field power-armoured hive gangers (hell, just use regular Tac helmets from the standard Tac box - it's not difficult). The level of detail won't appeal to everyone obviously, but they have to stand out as SW both in the rules and visually on the table.
The Terminators are pretty solid, if a little static in some of the poses; and is it me or do the thigh sections of the legs look just a little too thin in relation to the rest of the body/armour? Aside from that I think they did them well.
Njal looks brilliant and easily one of the best Librarian models they've done. Glad to see he kept his raven too.
Canis is a funny one. I don't out-and-out hate him but there is perhaps a little too much WFB in the styling and pose of the whole model. I like the idea and concept, but was hoping for a meaner looking wolf with say front legs apart and ready to pounce, with head down and fangs bared. I agree with an earlier poster who mentioned maybe the use of a spear for the rider, and whilst lightning claws could have worked, the pose again doesn't do the idea justice.
Rules-wise, if indeed these rumours turn out to be true, they're still suscpetible to concentrated fire. IG Mech (or any half-decent mobile mech army) can still dish out the same firepower and kill ratios that they're currently able to do against "standard marines". I don't believe anyone has seen the full points breakdown by squad and equipment, so I would still expect them to be a costly force versus actual numbers on the table (in the same way Blood Angels are, and will probably be moreso when we get a new Codex). Ergo, hordes will still stand a decent chance of beating them too.
My 2p's worth...
The Terminators look great. I will not be getting any, though, because I already have 30 of the old pewter Wolf Guard painted up and ready to go.
The standard troops look a little over the top, with the crazy hair and wolf bits on everything. It's like the designers said "Hey, I can still see some MkVII armor here, better put something wolfy on it."
The huge wolf looks re-damn-diculous. It looks as if it is prancing in front of the judges at the Westminster Kennel Club dog show. Exactly how does this fit the fluff? It would have been better to make a character have a wolf companion and you take the unit as two models, kind of like Creed and Kell.
Bottom line: I have been collecting and playing SW since 2nd edition, and I am not that excited about this new codex. I am glad I already have my army painted from the old models (2nd and 3rd edition vintage). 98% of my Marines wear helmets. Additionally, at the end of the day, the Space Wolves are still Imperial Space Marines, not a completely different race. They should have just made SW different than Codex Marines, not different and more powerful. More powerful does not equal different.
I will not be buying or playing with any of the new models. If any GW people read this blog, please take a note: THE NEW SPACE WOLVE MODELS ARE HIDEOUS!! THE BIG WOLF RIDER IS STUPID! Leave that crap in WH Fantasy, and keep the Sci-Fi aspect of 40K intact.
Semper Fi,
RagnarRoberts
"Abysmal"
After seeing the sheer awesomeness that was the SH Termies - those termies suck. The wolf rider is just stupid. "Lukas" is an inconrehensible hunk of pewter and the staff termie dude is just... static.
I'm very disappointed that
1) We had to get yet another imperial codex before a xenos
2) The codex is reprehensible in its cheddar
3) The models are pure rubbish.
Good one GW. The push for Dark Eldar release just got 1000% more vindicated you morons.
Maybe you should actually wait till the codex is out and see how it is before you cry doom and gloom over how cheesy it is. When rumours of the Imperial Guard and Space Marine codex where around pre release, tons of people cried cheese then, but look at the codexes now, they are pretty well balanced and they aren't crushing all comers in the tourney scene.
I'm sure GW have said christ how many times that DE are having their entire model range redone and require a lot of work, so are going to take a while, so sit on your hands a little while longer, eh?
Anyway, the Space Wolves codex is just as old as the DE one, so I think it's high time they got a new one, Imperial or not, and their model line didn't require the complete redo that DE are getting, so they are being put out in the meantime, GW is out there to make money at the end of the day.
Posts complaining a codex is overpowered before having playtested it, or in this case before it has even been released, aren't worth reading.
Based on the rumours, my only gripe is fluff wise. Although i don't think a thunderhammer throwing marine is a good idea, it isn't horrible. It's the idea of the hammer magically re-spawning in his hand that i find ridiculous in the extreme.
Regarding the models, I quite like the Stormcaller. His pose appears static but alongside his frame indicates a powerful character. The level of detail is high and supports the fluff.
I cannot see anything wrong with the terminator and marine kits. However, compared to the excellent IG and Ork releases of late, i don't find them particuarly inspiring. The same is true for the Lukas mini. I don't dislike it, it doesn't strike me like most new GW models do, like JONAS73 says, they are like 70's interior design; given time they look worse and worse...
The wolf riding character... I don't know what to say about this. I cannot actually believe GW are releasing this. The rider is well sculpted but the pose is dreadful. And as for the wolf... Appaling. No redeeming features whatsoever.
I only play Eldar - so I'm pretty unbiased in my opinion regarding the "fair play" that GW has be foisting on the community since the Ork codex.
I still stand by my opinion that SW where in dire need of a new codex, moreso than any other Xenos race other than DE, both the DE and SW have been waiting 10+ years for a new book, most of the other xeno races haven't even been waiting half that.
GW will spend effort designing "piece of sh*t" models as you call them, because they will sell like hotcakes, and provide them the money to continue to update the rest of the models in need of work, like your precious Dark Eldar.
Now get back in line and wait your turn like the rest of us, DE will have their day, and I bet once it comes, it will be glorious.
Ugh..I really hope these rules arent true, and if they are the units involved cost a huge amount of points. A regular space marine unit that gets up to SEVEN attacks each is completely nuts (even if they do keep the old WS3 rules from previous codexes).
As far as the models go I think they actually look pretty decent, most of the posing is very well done (cool seeing regular marines with two handed weapons), and the non wolf riding special characters look really good. I am looking forward to seeing what Ulrik looks like (at least I think its Ulrik..the old wolf priest, always liked his old model).
Besides that, how does he attack people? He'd have to lean over and swipe at them, but seeing as how a Space Marine in armor weighs at least as much as a small car, he'd tip over and fall off.
Sigh. I agree that he's like the picture of a t-rex flying an F-16. Pants-on-head retarded: http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr177/Boogie...
You also can't really compare a two-foot sword with lightning claws. Lightning claws are a) claws, which by their nature make holding the reins (if it has reins) difficult if you want to avoid skewering the wolf's back, and b) power weapons, which destroy anything they touch (and presumably that power field extends slightly beyond the claws themselves - references to crackling power fields in fluff, etc). Imagine trying to wield a lightsaber in each hand while on horseback.
Lastly, you can't compare a knight on horseback to Space Marine on wolfback. A horse can carry 20-30% of its own weight, and a heavyweight warhorse in the middle ages weighed anywhere between 1500-2000lbs. ~200-250lbs of knight, plus barding, is no problem for a horse. But a wolf? Using the same ratio - and ignoring the fact that wolves aren't even physiologically ideal for riding, which is another huge pickle - it'd have to weigh like 5,000lbs to be able to carry the Marine. The model, in my opinion, simply does not look big enough.
Now, I know 40k has a lot of unrealistic things. But most are unrealistic for just one or two reasons. The point of my post is to illustrate that there are quite a *lot* of reasons why this wolf-rider idea is silly (and therefore a bad idea to implement). That and to respond to the sarcasm (and implicit insulting tone) in your post, which I really didn't appreciate, especially when you're using flawed logic at me.
Srsly, stop trying.
And if someone would say, why then haven't been models built with retracted claws,the answer is, well, because they would look like power fists. And Extended claws look so cool ;)
Now I agree that it is pretty stupid for the guy to be riding that huge wolf, but dissing Calvin and Hobbes...that's just fail.
That's not an insult to Calvin and Hobbes; he's using it as an example.
Hell, Hobbes even says IN THE COMIC that the whole idea is stupid, while Calvin goes on being his six-year-old self.
Its either you love it or you don't. I'm still deciding on where i stand with it.
some points that would make Canis look heaps better.
1) Lose the god dam awful husky head from it, Fen wolves look nothing like that. Just look at the pelt on the codex cover
2) Again lose the bushy/cute tail from it, it really sets the tone for the mini. and it comes across like a playful next door neighbors dog ie. a big wuss. Replace with either a bionic tail or a mangy looking one. seriously this wolfs in battle, but it looks like it wants to run around and play fetch.
3) really broaden out the snout to almost square proportions, Think the outsider from Dean Koontz's Watchers, give it a shovel of a jaw.
other than that, its a mini that's ripe with conversion opportunity's.
And for the rest of the SW line, i have to say GW have done a stand out job with the amount of detail on these kits. Everything looks sufficiently awesome. And every SW player should be peeing outside the nearest GW store to ensure that they get there boxed sets first. Alpha male style.
Those are some space viking beards.
And fighting on wolf-back is impractical- but 40k is a setting known for it's impracticality.
I know I'm getting on my longship and rowing to Britain for Gamesday UK.
I'm not saying that'll necessarily be the case here. I love The Space Wolf fluff, and as for the models? They're OTT (Look at the man riding the bear-puppy! Loook! Awwww!), but then SM's could do witha bit of fun and craziness as a counterpoint to their occasionally dull, dour stoicism. But to say this'll be an unbalanced force by looking at some individual stats is not enough to give a feel for the army, or divine how competitive they'll be.
now the bad: the poses are in my opinion terrible, the giant wolf is just stupid looking and could at least have a unique posture as well as its rider, and finally some of their faces are horrible, and they are a tad too bulky all over (I know they'r winter warriors, but they look like the only swiftness they would posses is when the fall though the ice)
I have been a big fan of almost all the new GW models even if I do not think they belonged in standard games (valks) but these are not that amazing to me
my last comment is what is up with 8ft tall super humans in armor riding wolves, even if they are giant wolves, its just stupid, a pack of giant wolves would be needed to pull a space marine dogsled, maybe a scout on a wolf but not a full marine
well thats my opinion and I'm ready to get thrashed because of it
That's all the thrashing I can think of, for the moment, everything else is pretty much in line with my own opinions. Although I do like the Terminators for some reason.
Here is an interesting site of a crazed 40K Marine fan who basses his work off of fluff.
(http://www.philipsibbering.com/WH40KRP/40K_9_Ma...)
His estimate based off of Jes Goodwin's work (supported by GAMES WORKSHOP) even puts them at a smaller scale-AVG 7.5' to not quite 8' than what I thought. Space marines are very tall they are very bulky, but they are not bigger than an ogryn. Some have even been able to fit in and go about their business in a community without the populas picking them out immediatly (fallen dark angels).
But it's not a very good model, literally looks like they've bent the legs of a terminator and stuck him on the wolf.
or a dreadnought on a wolf ^^
*In second edition is was a common question if Terminators could ride bikes.
BTW I find the new minis awful and ridiculous. Avoid the dullness of SM is one thing, producing "masters of the univers" like minis for 5 years children is quite another.
There goes any temptation to do a SW army.
they broke space wolves, damn them!!
Or perhaps some Chaos Hounds, or Big Spawn?
Wolf rider = lame
All the rest looks the same as 4th ed plastics and metals.
Good to see them finally get a current Codex, but there are still older Codices out there...
If I get the model for any reason, I would definitely convert the head or just convert the whole model myself from a jugger, possibly one of the fantasy ones.
This really shouldnt have passed quality control...
I wouldn't say it looks too bad.
I'm now happily able to make the decision on whether or not I want Wolves ^_^
I would have written the rules to where "Thundarr" could choose to lose one attack in HTH if he wanted to throw his hammer. That would represent him throwing the hammer and him charging into combat and grabbing the hammer.
They could have done so much to make them hard but have in the process just made the Space Wolves a bit of a joke.
Also the rules arent that bad. These are sounding very points heavy, and at most your opponent is going to have two of them in a normal game. Considering the ease of getting loads of AP 1, 2 & 3 guns in the more recent armies you could just shoot them to death.
Also, Canis sounds pretty darn powerful, extra attacks for enemy models in base contact, while being S5, T5, and with Wolf Claws? Yeah, that sounds powerful. Still, not complaining until I see his points.
Maybe the drank to much while designing them.
I've always thought the vanilla marines, including the 'mainstream' founding chapters such as BA and DA to be to unadorned to fit into the setting. Much like how I think Vostroyans are better models for IG than cadians.
I guess YMMV, but to me those models are more dark future than any marines except for maybe the space hulk BAs.
he looks like he's saying "hey!! lookit my bracelets! aren't they to die for?"
other than that, looks about like I'd expect. vikings in power armor, pretty much.
270 pts. for a front armor 13 ven. dred? space marines don't need to re-roll ld. tests...kinda silly. Wolves get ATSKNF, right?
but hell... battle group him w/2 tac squads and let him get killed and your standing on an objective. could help you salvage a tie in a bad situation...
Only SW thing left of interest to me will be the Ragnar, Ulrik and Logan models. I just hope it's the same sculptor who did the new Njal (I may buy one just cause it's a cool model).
The troop upgrade pack...jury is still out. I see nice pieces, but I keep seeing heads that belong in Thunderdome. Rumors persist of 26-30 heads on sprue--somebody please tell me they all don't look like underhive gangers with too much time at the hair stylist and pound music playing on their microbeads.... If rumors are correct, and the Long Fangs who appear below are also made out of the troop upgrade kit, then there's hope that those heads are just for the "uber-enthusiastic" Blood Claws, and that we'll get some decent bare heads out of the kit. Oh, and looking at the bottom row on that section, I think we can put the "no TH/SS combo" rumor to rest for good and for keeps, thank Russ.
The Lukas el Tramposo fig...not sure if this is the Blood Claw pack upgrade char, but in all honesty, I've got two kit-bashed figs that already look much like it does, right down to the wolf skull emblem on the belt, so unless a better pic emerges with some extra winning sculpting, I'm gonna be meh on it.
The "Stormcaller" fig (is this supposed to be Njall?) actually looks better than a lot of Librarian types they've done, without being a complete redux. I'm tempted to give it my full approval, but the quality of the scan leaves a few niggling questions.
And, lest I choose to forget....
Canis...the mounted figure looks great. If we can allow for astartes to drive and wield two weapons on bikes, the idea of a bloodthirsty cybernetic super lupine carrying a ten foot man in power armor and just taking nudges or even some sort of armor-to-MIU style guidance isn't that far a stretch. At least, that's what I kept telling myself to counteract the "WTF?" thoughts I've had up to now.
The wolf itself is just...wrong. Sure, it needs to be big, beefy, and mean to carry a power armored marine on its back. This thing looks barrel chested in the wrong way, the head is completely screwed, the paws look manicured, and the tail looks like the rest of the fig should be doing a parade ground prance. Head and tail swap/mod will do wonders for it, but I'm not sure even then it'll look sufficiently cool. Somebody above said there are wolf sprues available on the website....please tell me these aren't the old wolves we've all been stuck using? If so...wow, they missed a chance to fix a big gap in both fantasy and 40k, as those figs, while plastic, are sucktastic.
Now....where are Ragnar, Ulrik, Bjorn, and Logan? Where is this rumored characer upgrade sprue? If they're to be splash two, I worry how long that'll take. Oh, and has anyone heard anything more about the assault cannon tank that may or may not be a landraider recently? Or was that more bad intel?
Believe it or not, but I've been planning on playing a hiver space marine army using SW rules for the past two years, so these are freaking awesome!
Honestly, though, I'll probably end up using more orky bits (especially the accessories from the new Nob box!).
I don't like the wolf model tbph, BUT well done Games Workshop for trying at least :)...
I do LOVE the Stormcaller though xD
Come on... Kharn conversion
Other than that, the models look really good! I really like the idea behind the venerable dreadnought too.
green > grey
A lot of those heads with bad topknots and such could get a haircut with a razor blade, it would take two seconds.
standard venerable dreadnought is something like 160 points and a bs6 plasma cannon front armour 13 monstrosity who when he dies makes everyone fearless?? that's got to be 300 - 400 points.
at least he only has one "wound" or does he have structure points?
Kill him last turn in close combat.
Instant KP win.
I actually want SW armies to field Björn against my guard, that evens out the KP problem massively. :)
In the melta-heavy 5th ed. environment, I really can't see investing landraider type points on a moblie plasma canon platform..he's just a fancy dread.
And Tau don't fear dreads, they're too slow.
Honestly I'm not as scared of this release changing the game the way the IG codex and the Ork codex did. I get the feeling I won't be seeing Space Wolf armies the way I see Guard now.
Even vanilla space marines have some great cost effective army builds. How many troops will be in the wolf-rider army, or will be led by a close to 300 pt. dreadnaught?
This seems like a second coming of the Dark Angel codex. Nice 'n' fluffy and sounds good in theory (terminators as troop choices-yay!), but isn't really top tier on the tabletop.
Space Wolf fans and fluff types are all psyched, I'm sure. But I just don't get the feeling this codex will be anything but fun, especially if those models are any indicator....
I would actually like to see a 'wolf rider' army...sounds like fun.
But I don't think it's scary or 'cheesy'..just furry.
"Ragnar gives himself and the unit he joins d3 extra attacks on the charge"
If he is with a unit of ten that could grant 33 extra attacks? That seems like quite a bit doesn't it?
So, one unit of blood claws (15 attacks) with pistol and ccw (+15 attacks) charges a unit (+30 attacks) and has Ragnar (+5 attacks) and then rolls a three (+45 attacks) will have 110 attacks on the charge?
Hopefully I am being stupid and reading this incorrectly.
So maybe himself +d3 and the unit (normal attacks) +d3.
So using your example above maybe 48 attacks + Ragnar's attacks as well.
At least I hope so....
And the visual of this army is definitely trending more and more toward a Fantasy look and feel, it really looks a lot like the Warriors of Chaos units. The lack of helmets (RAAAGH! WE HAVE BEARDS AND MUST SHOW THEM!) and the furs on everything really detracts (I feel) from the whole sci-fi genetically engineered super solider feel and really just makes them poor parodies of Vikings in Space, but with a massive helping of Mary Sue as the SW's seem to always be nice guys when it comes down to it.
Apparently that's a drawback.
So yeah, other than hugely expensive HQ's, you can have rather large numbers of what will turn out to be the most cost efficient and solid Troops in the game, with most of the normal Space Marine options for other slots.
Sorry, just not seeing the whole "always outnumbered" thing here.
You pay a bit more for some characters that look to be worth it, and then have some expensive elites, but everything else looks pretty much identical or better in relation to the basic SM codex.
for those in the UK, wayland have them up for preorder :)
Looks like "Lukas the Trickster" is an upgrade for your blood claws and does NOT count as an independent character. He lets you force your opponent to re-roll sucessful "to-hit" rolls, if I'm translating correctly. That could be lots of fun, indeed.
Also - if you looks in the notes, he's going to be direct only 1 month after he goes on sale. Wonder why they're doing that?
When we got a new guy in distribution, he was surprised to find we still carried blister.
Also I think that chaos hounds (fenerisian wolves) have been reported as an anomaly being lead by a great Khornate leader mounted on a tremendous juggernaut of khorne was seen leading a pack of well equipped juggernaut riders into battle also. Hummmm also I think that Ragnar would be a great substitute for a Kharn model who whips people into a frenzy and stuff! The only problem with this is that fluff wise a Khorne army wouldn't have a psycher, but it is a good thing that rune priests are not required in the army! Also a crazed dreadnought being protected by khorn and the powers of the warp could explain how 13 av and 5+ inv saves are found on a corpse tank
i think sometimes that adding in victory conditions into the codex rules can be a little short sighted and limiting, what if neither kill points or objectives are part of the victory conditions
that said, i already own some wolves so i'm happy to see they are becoming a characterfull army in their own right, instead of space marines with extras
Wolf rider looks stupid, otherwise models are fine. Not a SW player myself and none of my group is either so I'm not too fussed. I know the SWs will be expensive but remembering the Orks and Chaos Marines codices I'm not sure they'll be expensive enough. Still, reserving judgement.
I am going to need to work on my green stuff skills
that's going to be the second in command of the not selling mini list after capitan cortez.. :D ..with all the leftover plastic nobody is going to buy it..I hope....
and the wold..the wolf is just an heraldry one made 3d from some sw banner..
anatomically senseless even if you change the rider is something quite good..
stupid rules stupid model..at least I'm happy for that..hope true hobbist won't reward gw using those models..neither those rules..
the rest..stupid poses and ugly beards..but we could fix it..if we'd really like to play cheese wolves..
ruels for bjorn and ragnar looks a bit too much too..but I'm quite sure points wise will be flat..
imo of course.. :)
Im not going to get all doom and gloom till the whole pic has been revealed, however i am slightly disappointed, been waiting for this realease for a year as my friends are collecting BA, NIDS & Orks and felt like i needed a CC army to call my own, and now....
Think most will be helmeted, although do like the wolf guard models quite a bit... possibly a small 1k force will do me as a suppliment durring APOC battles
they look pretty cool. as for the whole SW pictures on the net, i would recomend you a spanish website, www.laposadadelfriki.com
on the front page you should be able to see all the pictres.
Personally I'm just interested in how the sprues are sorted, if I have to buy a whole box to get extra bits or if there will be upgrade sprues I can get seperately.
I myself adore the Canis model, since it reminds me of all those awesome B&W illustrations I've seen since I began the hobby 17 years ago. THey may have been wacky and pretty nonsensical but they did more to capture the tone and feel of the various warhammer locales than almost all the 'clean' art new players seem to rely on. In fact that's pretty much the model that's convinced me to start up my SW army again after nearly 5 years as a pure IG player.
Give me these and my vostroyans over cadians and marines that are only different because of a quick dye job any day of the week.
the other models are sweet. they kick the guards ass in comvertability and in style. who care if your going to have a small # of dudes. i its easier for you toget bigger armies, and 2 when you hit you will most liekly kill what you want dead.
-Venerable
-5+ Invuln
ROFL. It's like a bunch of 13 yr olds writing these new codexes. Groan.
PS... I'm not diggin the models all that much either. This really does have a "quick release" codex feel to it. Almost like a filler. Hopefully things will shape up a bit when they come out.
Canis is one of the ugliest goofiest and just plain dumb
models I have ever seen. better conversions by autistic 6 year olds
by the way,the wolf pack and terminator bitz are SUPER BADASS!!