Bell of Lost Souls - Latest Comments in 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

jmslft16 — Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:59:34 -0000

lol, i've been using the same battlesuit technique!

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

davethepaveway — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:45:56 -0000

much better review than the article good work

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Porty1119 — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:44:25 -0000

Kroot in Devilfish. Enough said.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Millennium Badger — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:44:27 -0000

I discovered the Lexicanum a couple of days ago, and it is excellent!

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

kais86 — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:32:29 -0000

TL flamers and missile pods are hilarious, cheap, and versatile. 130ish points for 3 TL flamers and they will kill most units in the game easily, and when they have nothing to light on fire they can hunt vehicles or units out of range with missiles.

One of my biggest complaints about the Tau army is how frail it is in the current edition, our units aren't big enough to be competitive, battlesuit squads will die the moment anyone targets them with something more than a popgun, firewarriors will run of the table is a pigeon farts near them. I still can't complain about Broadsides. The mighty railgun on the Hammerhead is too expensive now that it scatters, and as for solid shot, broadsides are tougher, more accurate, and because of the cost of the railgun almost cheaper. Stealthsuits are more expensive than they are worth, given that they only carry burst cannons and are even easier to kill than any other unit except the worthless vespid. Skyray's are, and always have been, overpriced. The devilfish is also too expensive given that the rhino is 35. Ethereals are still only good targets for the enemy, if their rule improved the Tau's strong point (that is shooting) it would be ok but I don't want to bring a unit onto the field who eats an HQ slot is 50 points and is only useful when it dies.

My next biggest complaint is how very un-elite the Tau elite units are, one would figure they would be better shots or have something more than just better gear and another attack. Their leadership also sucks, why in the name of the greater good is the highest leadership in the Tau Empire only an 8 until you get to the HQ? There is no explanation for this. Sure it's better than the guard, but the guard have leadership issues because they are expendable, Tau fire caste are not considered expendable and every one is important enough to some degree that they won't be thrown into battle like lemmings.

What they need is a new book, they aren't going to see one until probably 2011, so I'm just going to keep playing and learn how to deal with my crippled list as each new codex comes out.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Anon2 — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:01:31 -0000

Quote: "If your tanks are on hover bases, like they should be, I can shoot battlesuit ankles until they die."

This made me lose a little faith in humanity.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Kirstar — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 08:53:04 -0000

I would advise reading the articles here
http://advancedtautactica.c...

then re-writing your article.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Ghost — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 05:39:40 -0000

my good friend let me tell you a tale of yore back in 3rd ed 40k

in these dark days there were two major strategies in pretty much exeption of all else, they where rhino rush and gunline, one was "mount up in vehicles and charge for combat", the other was 'try and get as many bassalisks and indirect templates on the table as possible" now back then you couldnt move and double rapid fire, you could assault after firing rapid fire and you couldnt fire after dissembarking

now background-wise the tau were supposed to be a new race to add some new flavour to the game, some guys who are actualy nice if not a bit nieve, gameplay wise they were designed to discourage these main strateges (which they did wonderfully, i can remember blowing up rhinos with crisis and pathfinder teams)
and as for the not what 40k was intended to be, yeah 40k had drifted away from that idea of "gritty and gloomy and vast warp hell" but the tau made it better, wit that small dot of hope on the eastern fringes, things suddenly started looking a lot more gloomy in the imperium.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

gunnargunnar — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:39:19 -0000

Deny Tau. They didn't exist in the old fluff, and are ony a PR-army for the japaneese release of 40k. Other races did, even the Kroots were mentioned...
(what a losy argument, but thats the fact...)

Well I dont like Tau for many reasons. They are not what 40k initally intended to be, a dark future with close encounters and mystic powers of the warp. They are based totaly on manga fiction, a popular toy and comic-concept for a lot of nerd fiction producers.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Spronk — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:08:58 -0000

Why does the author think you have to use HQ suits as . . . ah . . ."suiciders?"

Why not a single elite suit or two? Just because he'd rather field stealth suits in those spots?

And in 5th, you can minimize costs if you shlep FW around in the fish you bought for PFs

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

doomsday — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 05:59:55 -0000

hi guys this is my 1750 mech tau list i was using when the 5th edition is came up (with that list i have won a local tournament)...that tactica was the same with Darkwynn

HQ
Commander shas’el : missile pod / plasma / multi tracker / targeting array
97pts

ELITE
Team 1 : Crisis / fusion / missile-pod / multi tracker
Crisis / fusion / missile pod / multi tracker / targeting array (Team leader)
123pts
Team 2 : Crisis / missile pod / plasma / multi tracker
Crisis / missile pod / plasma / multi tracker / targeting array (Team leader)
139pts

TROOPS
Team 1 : 10 firewarriors / shas ui / body knife / Devilfish – disruption pod
Team 2 : 10 firewarriors / shas ui / body knife / Devilfish – disruption pod
Team 3 : 10 firewarriors / shas ui / body knife / Devilfish – disruption pod
Team 4 : 10 firewarriors / shas ui / body knife / Devilfish – disruption pod
800pts

FAST ATTACK
Piranha : fusion / targeting array / disruption pod / fusion
75pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
Team 1 : Hammerhead : railgun / burst cannon / disruption pod / multi tracker /
target lock
Team 2 : Hammerhead : railgun / burst cannon / disruption pod / multi tracker /
target lock
Team 3 : Hammerhead : railgun / burst cannon / disruption pod / multi tracker /
target lock
495pts

the last 3 weeks i tested succesfully the following list (one draw against eldar and one win against blood angels) and i see that the markelights is nessesary at tau army ... so i desided to use that list :

HQ
Commander shas’el : missile pod / plasma / multi tracker / targeting array
Drone controller / shield drone
112pts

ELITE
Team 1 : Kamikazi Crisis / fusion t.l. / targeting array
53pts
Team 2 : Crisis / missile pod / plasma / targeting array _
Crisis / missile pod / plasma / h.w. multi tracker / h.w. target lock
h.w. drone controller / targeting array (Team leader) / 2 shield drone
179pts
Team 3 : Crisis / fusion / plasma / targeting array / h.w. multi tracker
h.w. drone controller (team leader) / shield drone
92pts

FAST ATTACK
Pathfinders : 7 pathfinders / shus ui / body knife / target lock / 3 rail rifle
Devilfish – disruption pod
219pts
Piranha : fusion / targeting array / disruption pod / fusion
75pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
Team 1 : Hammerhead : railgun / burst cannon / disruption pod / multi tracker /
target lock / blacksun filter
Team 2 : Hammerhead : railgun / burst cannon / disruption pod / multi tracker /
target lock / blacksun filter
Team 3 : Hammerhead : railgun / burst cannon / disruption pod / multi tracker /
target lock / blacksun filter
510pts

TACTICA
i see that the most players dont like the piranha but for me is nessesary to my army ... i keep it at reserve and it has given me many contests , or i use it like tankhunters if i play kill points
...the markelights did very good work and help me cut many covers and better BS
...the pathfinders' devilfish with the reroll to deep strikes is awesome ... also the blacksun filter to the hammerheads does very good work if you play the nightfight scenario
...the rail rifles and the crisis with the targeting array and the missile pods is perfect against the light vehicles ( most of the players in 5th edition use mech armies with many transpots // you leave tha railguns for the heavy vehicles) and plasma gives a good defence against everything is coming back to my lines
....also i gave to crisis shield drones because otherwise is a very easy kill point for str8 weapons ... the kamikazi crisis is obvious what it does
...the 10 firewarriors without devilfish ... i keep them at reserve and when they come take the pathfinders' devilfish and they stay back for my objectives and for defence
... so know i am thinking if it is better to take 15 pts from the H.H. black/filters , 92 pts from crisis team 3 and 55 pts from firewarriors team 3 ( to put out the shas ui with the knife and 3 models ) and use that pts for a team of 5 stealth suit with team leader target lock and fusion

...I am sorry for the big post ... cheers from Greece

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

steck — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:35:11 -0000

First this is mostly a rant, i dont have anything really good to add to this. I hate my tau in 5th ed, in 4th ed I tried to do mobile a bit but fish were too expensive so I ended up with 2 fish and 2 hammerheads. Now 5th comes out and all my suits suck but the devilfish are more important. My tau can't wipe anything off the board unless I am lucky and the only tactic is to drop everything and move your fire warriors around the field hoping they dont get shot up. I hate this tactic and refuse to do it in a tournament because its not why I started my tau. I started them because they were different and because I could run a small block of static (1 FW, pahtfinders, broadsides) and then have the rest of my army supported by that group as it flys around/drops into the field.

That is my rant about tau in 5th ed, I wish it were different but its not.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

MadDogMike — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:52:11 -0000

One possibly helpful thing if you're willing to go Forgeworld is to grab Tetras for markerlights. They're Fast Attack vehicles so they don't take a Heavy slot (and can squadron up to four), come with disruption pods standard and can buy that all important BS4 upgrade, and they have a Scout move that unlike the Pathfinders won't screw up their ability to actually use their markerlights. They aren't that bad price-wise either, since you get two per pack you buy from FW. Not as durable as the Skyray and much weaker for actual offensive purposes, but if you want to save heavy slots for more railguns in your force they aren't too bad a choice, and they probably do about as well as Pathfinders for a Fast Attack slot (fewer markerlights, but a hell of a lot more mobile).

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

khanaris — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:55:33 -0000

Either that or the rules for some of the weapons need to change. Imperial Guard should be the best on quantity, but not on quality. That was never their niche. You can't make Tau like the Guard by making them as numerous.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

khanaris — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:48:14 -0000

It works for Eldar because their Skimmer transports are much faster and better protected than Tau transports. Tau transports certainly can score with a unit of Fire Warriors or Kroot in them, but if the enemy happens to be close to that objective your Disruption Pod is probably useless and you are relying on Armor 11 or 12. Devilfish don't have a very large threat range, so you have to sneak up on objectives rather than blitzing them like the Eldar or Dark Eldar.

It can work, but you can not rely on spamming it. A minimized unit of Fire Warriors in a Devilfish is not that cheap, and it is going to struggle to put much of a dent in anything.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

darchangel87 — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:05:37 -0000

whoops.. read before posting...:P

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Lerra — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:52:28 -0000

Are you sure about that? Don't you have to use the base it was supplied with?

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

darchangel87 — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 14:41:51 -0000

Tau I find are struggling a bit to keep up in the new edition because their tried-and-true gunline is having more expected of it. It now needs to take objectives, deploy in different ways, etc. In order to emphasize the flexibility of the mobile list, I occasionally employ the stealth-pathfinder method. This is a unit of stealth suits with all marker drones. Because the Jet Pack rule confers the Relentless USR, marker drones attached to jet infantry can fire their lights on the move. Compared to pathfinders, the lights all networked, they can all deep strike, have stealth, have better saves, more attack power, can infiltrate, and overall are either cheaper than 'finders and fish, or about the same, depending on numbers. That being said, you don't get the deep strike fish, but it's a worthy trade-off

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Madness — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:07:02 -0000

I know it's not a Michelangelo and I don't pretend it to be, but for some reason instead of drawing their own, they took the one I drew.

I just made a silly comment with a side of shameless plug, and you're going all qq over me.

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

P'Shar's Rifles — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 09:40:13 -0000

Darkwynn, I sincerely hope that your comment that "folks are stuck in 4th edition" is not a dismissal of the advice you've received in response to your article from actual Tau players. Much of what has been posted here fits with my experience of 5th edition, though it only scratches the surface of Tau tactics, and I suspect you'd find lively tactical innovation happening for 5th ed on many of the more active Tau sites.

To say that this article was made "to make people think and hopefully take on another view of the Tau" sounds disturbingly like an excuse for the problems pointed out by those who have replied to you. The fundamental complaint here is that you did not, in the opinion of Tau veterans playing in 5th edition, give "insight into what works in 5th edition". Rather, there appears to be a strong feeling here that you did the opposite by listing tactics which are sub-optimal for a 5th edition Tau list.

I hope you'll get out and visit some of the more respected Tau sites for some solid 5th edition tactics and strategies and then revisit this topic. With your level of experience in the game, particularly as an adversary to Tau, I anticipate that you'll grasp the Tau way of war quickly and will bring new insights to those of us who have made them our primary faction.

Best,
P'Shar

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Flashman — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:41:42 -0000

Dammit... I hit that like button again!

Darkwynn, I think you've made a valiant effort at a Tau tactica and your right the truth is Tau are a difficult army to play in 5th but you're showing how inexperianced you are with them by some of your declarations. I mean yeah battlesuits cannot avoid return fire but with shield drones and because of wound allocation they can suck up a lot of fire before going down. In the mean time they'll be laying down a punishing salvo of fire for your opponent to deal with.

As for Pathfinders your right, an experienced opponent will target them but as others have said you can either use this to your advantage and expect a disproportionate amount of fire to be wasted against them. Or you can try using a Shas'O shield wall to protect them. A simple Shas'O with Iridium Armour (2+), Stimulant Injectors for feel no pain and two Shield drones (who benefit from his 2+ armour save and 4 toughness) will offer them some decent protection as they suck up the first three wounds against the unit.

There are tricks to playing Tau and I think if you were serious about learning how to use them you could do worse than having a poke around the internets and seeing what experianced Tau commanders are doing to survive in 5th.

Tau'va!

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

Bijyu — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 01:45:45 -0000

Two words...Ninja tau.

I find it a ton of fun to play but your opponents dont tend to think so. But it does make the game go buy much faster. Yay for speed gaming!

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

SinSynn — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 01:32:12 -0000

Darkwynn have you ever heard of drones? A Shas'el or 'O with 2 bodyguards can have up to 9 T4/3+ Sv ablative wounds with shield drones, as well as a 4+ invulnerable save.
Pathfinders are a great distraction unit, since they're not scoring. Put 'em in a corner- their Markerlights reach out to 36 inches- way far out of the way, and watch your opponent waste time/energy/resources hunting them down. Many Tau players rely on them to draw heat away from their scoring troops/suits. For some reason, our opponents suffer a disproportionate amount of hostility towards them ;)
Crisis suits are STILL the bread and butter of the Tau army. Please refer to the many, many Tau blogs and websites for a tactica. Even rapid firing Firewarriors only kill 2 MEQ's in a shooting phase. And if the enemy is that close, that's 8 marines that are going to stab your troops with chainswords very soon. You'd need to fish of fury (that's the name of the tactic your refering to) 5 or so Devilfish to knock out a tactical squad of marines. Is that your plan? Maybe you should re-think the Crisis suits..... My 2 Fireknife Shas'el HQ's really, really kill things, and my Elite Deathrains (TL missile pods/Targeting Arrays/Team leader w/drone controller+2 gundrones/Target Lock) wipe transports off the board very quickly. Since none of them are troops/scoring, they can be sacrificed for the greater good after leading the enemy on a merry chase. At the same time, my tricked out Devilfish are lining up late game power moves, and my tanks are there to assist.
Also, if your going to 'suicide deep strike'- use elite suits. Don't waste HQ's. And think about the team of 3 w/drones. Carefully placed (use the Pathfinder's D'fish homer), they can kill a vehicle and (hopefully) be hiiden behind the wreck. With target locks, they can kill 2 when they drop. Don't drop on Landraiders. Concentrated railgun fire from 3 Hammerheads or a team of Broadsides should kill them at a distance, stranding the very bad men inside. I get upset if I haven't killed a Landraider by turn 2 with my Broadsides. A 3 man elite team of Crisis suits can withstand a ridiculous amount of shooting and still hop away. I've had a whole army shoot at mine many times, and I usually either lose both drones (no Ld check! Whoot!) or limp away with 2 suits to cause more trouble. One suit w/no drones is a waste. Especially if it's a Shas'el or 'O.
I know your an excellent 40k player, and I believe you when you say your an expert with your Black Templars. How about writing Tacticas for them, since they're an underappreciated gem of an army in 5th?
I wouldn't recommend the Tau for a new player until they get a new book. And I'm sure the learning curve has been rough for you, hasn't it?
Out of curiosity, how many games with the Tau have you played? What's your record?

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

zysac — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:51:26 -0000

DUDE, HIDE THEM BEHIND YOUR TANKS.... i figure that was at least obvious.....

pathfinders are essential for the first few turns.... and face it... if the enamy is really spending time ferreting your pathfinders out of cover than good for him... as they are dirt cheap, not scoring, and do no damage on their own and just saved your other stuff from alot of shots.

i personally have been using a stealth marker team however in place of the pathfinders.

The block'O'Tanks only works against pod armies. otherwise your really just boxing yoruself in and cannot fully bring your own weapons to bear, especially once a tank or two of yours drops. you need to be flexable and fluid as tau... not a wall
you need to create entire quarters of the board were your oponent is afraid to go near (i have always been very sucessful at this)

you NEED to Spead out while sticking together, far enough apart to give yoruself options, Close enough to deny deepstriking and outflanking potential... its a careful balance.

and all this talk about "being trapped in 4th edition" what has really changed?

TLoS mech armies didnt take so much of a hit because we hide behind our tanks

Cover... MARKERLIGHTS...oh wait... you dont liek those do you?

Marines: eat people for dinner at the age of twelve by yelling "BOOM".... they have always done this its nothing new... its why half of all armies are marines or the latest released codex

Scoring units: wait.... yoru spending MORE points on less but bigger units of em, without increasing their overall usefullness or survivability?

BIG QUESTION, do you actually win games when you "play" tau?.... do you actually play tau? I think the philosophy of taking random marine players and assigning them "less popular" armies to write tacticas for them is kind of flawed. and Very misleading to new players

Re: 40K TACTICA: Tau in 5th Edition

darkwynn — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:03:47 -0000

Which has what I found out to happen a lot more Crevab.

Great you deep strike your suits to take out heavy Armour with those fusion guns. Well they were only bs 3 and if they do succeed they still die from enemy massing fire or that nasty unit getting out from that land raider and assaulting you.

Terrain is different at every store across the country but playing around the country I have noticed you will have a hard time hiding your suits from out flankers, drop pod units and very fast mobile armies.

I have noticed a lot of tau players still trapped in the 4th edition game and they might have great success but what happens when they go into another area or a bigger touranment? They get smoked and their armies can get picked apart very easily. I don't come out saying I am a master out tau which I am not( I can say it about Black Templar though!). The only person who can reasonably deserve to be called a master is Scott Simpson.

This article was designed to make people think and hopefully take on another view of Tau. See if it works and maybe give them insight to what works in 5th edition.