Bell of Lost Souls - Latest Comments in 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Sat, 20 Mar 2010 13:03:28 -0000

Not putting heavy weapons inline Squad, and then recommending squads of them is foolish. Not only are they extremely vulnerable, but Ld7 means "Bring it Down!" is far from reliable, they have a good chance to run with a single casualty, and you pay 250% of the cost as you would if you gave them to line squads. Heavy weapons in infantry squads are dirt cheap, have plenty of ablative wounds, and can test for orders on Ld8-9 with a re-roll. What, are you hoping to get a lot of use of those lasguns against enemy transports? Along with grenade launchers, some autocannons mixed in make this a fantastic base from which to blast transports apart, and when things get closer, you can switch to FRFSRF to hose down infantry. For only 10 points per squad, it is really a no-brainer choice.

Oh, and @JFX: If you think conscripts are great, you are retarded. With the recycle option, they cost as much as a similar-sized combined platoon with a commissar. Not only would the platoon be more useful throughout the game, but with some power weapons they will statistically PWN terminators.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

mordiano — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:19:08 -0000

Ok, so I guess it's becoming increasingly claer that I just realy like the concept of conscripts!! But I wont give up that easy!

So now that you added 1pt to "uppgrade" conscripts to guardsmen, why not spend 2 to get them to be veterans?

Makes thoose heavy/special weapons (still at the same cost, mind you) so much more effective!!

Back to the conscripts: I think they are not realy up for ¨anything" without a LD bonus, chenkow, priests.. there are alternatives

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

MakurA — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:49:38 -0000

LoL

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

BuFFo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:56:29 -0000

@ Weeble1000

The Chimera no longer has Lasguns as its armament anymore.

So what lasguns are being operated from the inside? That was a previous edition ability of the Chimera which no longer exists.

Look at page 99. The Chimera simply does not have any lasguns anymore.

This is just a case of GW changing the rules of a model but ignoring what the model looks like, just like a Greater Demon in the Chaos book cannot fly, yet the model comes with wings if you are used to using the bloodthirster.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

limunpai — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:39:12 -0000

Unless you have a disdain for transports, get those officers in some Chimeras. The almost universally excepted command squad is 4xflamers, which is great since flamers come in plastic. I find that 4xgrenade Launchers firing out the top hatch along with a multi-laser and heavy bolter on the Chimera is pretty effective as well. As to the upgrades on the officers, they are generally ill advised, but they look cool, so I wouldn't fault you for taking them. I usually save the power weapons for my commisars and company commander through.

The Infantry squads need to be a more focused. The set ups I like are:

Autocannon and Grenade Launcher - cheap anti-transport
Autocannon and Plasma - serious anti-transport
Lascannon and Plasma - enough AP2 to kill hard targets
Meltagun only - These guys are cheap and the meltagun is a large threat even on a BS3 model, since 1 shot can potentially kill any vehicle in the game besides the monolith. Not having a heavy weapon allows them to move up the field.
Flamer only - Ultra cheap and the flamer gives them a little threat

The lascannon/grenade launcher squad is ineffective because they want to shoot at seperate targets most of the time.

Grenade Launcher only, I feel, doesn't serve much of a purpose because if you don't have a particularly good shot with the unit(melta, flamer, or double tap with lasguns), this unit should be running as fast as they can toward an objective most of the time. The grenade launcher just doesn't add enough to the unit to justify taking it, and it is certainly not as good a choice as the melta or flamer, which can both put a real hurting out.

Missile/grenade launcher both have strong and dispersed firing modes. This isn't a bad choice at all. They perform the same function as the autocannon/grenade launcher squads but can really take advantage of grouped up enemies.

If you are taking 6 infantry squads, you'll probably want to combine some of them. Because of this, I'd take a commisar with a power weapon and at least 2 squads and up to 4 squads in the same platoon with the same equipment so that they can combine and be issued very effective orders. Just choose the equipment you like the most and do it in triplicate in one platoon and make sure their officer can keep up with them for orders.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Zapp — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:15:29 -0000

Dismount your infantry and then advance to contact using the afv's as mobile fire support and good solid cover. Tank shock the foemen out of cover and then lay in with las fire and finish off the survivors with bayonet and lasrifle stock.

= win

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

weeble1000 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:46:40 -0000

Even if you surround an objective, it only stops the first assaulting squad from coming within three inches. Once the unit is assaulted, you're going to swiftly pile in and open up the objective.

I've found it to be an okay tactic if you beef the squad with Lord Commissar, but that's a big point investment for a 2-3 assault phase tar pit. Plus, the conscripts can't be upgraded, so a single walker can suck the whole squad off of an objective and lock it in CC for the rest of the game. You can beat that problem with Send in the Next Wave, but again, that's a big point investment.

Conscripts look attractive because they are cheap, but I've found that you have to put a lot of points into the squad to keep the unit viable. I've found a platoon with 5 infantry squads to be much more flexible.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Conrad — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:22:29 -0000

Simples....Land Speeder storm, 5 CC scouts with a serg and power weapon.

They've only gotta kill 5 guard and have 1 guy left alive at the end of combat to give the guard a Ld 6 test to not run....and considering the I of a scout is higher, those guys are gonna need to be lucky not to be toasted by the outflanking little skimmer.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Conrad — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:19:07 -0000

Quantum mechanics is a piece of piss in comparison to arguing what counts as "adornment" on a Tau battle suit for terms of line of sight and cover saves.

Bloody stupid stating that only the arms, body, head and legs count for l.o.s. when half the models in the game have loads of little extra's attached to every part of them and they could be viewed as part of the body. Had some-one trying to argue that I couldn't draw line of sight to their Trygon the other week because it's torso was behind a skimmer!!! Apparently that huge thin that's the model is "standing" on is counted as a tail and thus is an "adornment".

I'll take Quantum and Theoretical physics any day of the week in comparison to arguing the toss with some gamers!

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Stelek — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:08:01 -0000

Finally, a good tactica article.

Well done.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Old_Paladin — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:55:04 -0000

A few sniper shots, one lobba shell, some tau marker lights, and that 50 man unit is face down for the game (or needs a babysitter HQ!).
Don't forget, if they lose in CC, their leadership is also going to be reduced. So they'll have at best Ld:4!
But you're right, 150 points of anything with good melee will get through them in one round (Scorpions, Boyz, Blood Claws, even Kroot!).

That, or you'll have to spend a bunch of extra points on characters, etc. to boost the unit (and then you're talking about spending 300+ points for daisy pickers).

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Kungfuhustler — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:24:19 -0000

grenade launchers are ineffective at killing priority targets and must be taken in triplicate at minimum.
the infantry in the chimeras can't receive orders,
bs3 dudes with one special weapon fail to take advantage of the 5 firing points in a massive way. Chimeras are for veterans who can tote 3 melta guns, flamers or grenade launchers... or basically anything good. I play mechanized quite often and understand quite well which units can take advantage of the chimera. Standard guardsmen don't.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

SinSynn — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:53:04 -0000

wow what a dumb statement.
your forgetting that in a 1750 pt. list, he's got 900 plus points of elite, fast attack and heavy support left to bring, as his troops and hq are covered.
Thats 900 pts. of pure nastiness to put on the table.
and saying that mechanized troops are a bad decision is kinda silly, especially in 5th ed. 7 troop filled chimeras + 900 odd points of Leman Russes, Hellhounds (and variants), sentinals, etc......seems like a fun AND effective list to me....
I realize that whatever list you play is un-defeatable, but please, claiming you could tear apart someone else's army based on half a list is just retarted.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

crazyredpraetorian — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:47:55 -0000

Do you really think that firing a heavy weapon out of the hatch hadn't occurred to the game designers? I think it was intended. It is too obvious to have been an oversight.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Morat — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:29:13 -0000

That is what it says. Rules hotlines are not crewed by studio staff, they're most commonly crewed by mail order trolls. Good for figuring out what bits you want. No better than "bloke in the pub" for rules interpretations. :)

When I get around to it, my PCS will be:

Officer + Plasma Pistol and CCW
Vox
Medic
2x Plasma gun

105 points in all but if you must have plasma guns I'd rather they didn't kill themselves. That squad in cover is "Seer Council" tough. I suspect that a lot of people's PCS builds are based on previous edition prejudices (i.e. I have 4 flamers and a junior officer built and painted, I must now insist this is the best build rather than change it).

I guess I'll find out how my build performs in a couple of weeks. Will be sure to bring my "word fork" with me when I do...

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

mordiano — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:17:16 -0000

If thoose where 3 space marines firing out there would be no prob, so 3 guard hvy weapons also should be no prob

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

weeble1000 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:06:18 -0000

Sure, by the rules as written you can fire three heavy weapons out of the top hatch. But, like I mentioned in my first comment, I think doing that goes beyond what the rules were intended to represent.

The Chimera has 5 fire points because it's got lasguns that can be operated from the inside. Now, I don't think its a big deal to assume that the lasgun bits are generic fire points, or however else you want to think of it to justify shooting weapons other than lasguns out of the top hatch.

However, I do think there's a big difference between shooting a shotgun, plasma gun, meltagun, or any of the other special weapons out of the top hatch and firing a lascannon or a mortar from inside a chimera.

My point is that it may be okay by the rules, but I personally wouldn't do it, because I don't think the rule was intended to represent three two man teams operating large, tripod-mounted weaponry from the firepoints in a transport.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

BuFFo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:01:40 -0000

25% isn't large at all to make sure a unit stays put and never runs away.

"Absorbing hits by incoming fire and CC... and fighting back reasonably similar in CC (getting hit on 3+ etc.)"

Same goes for Conscripts, which is the whole point as to why they are worthless. Platoon squad does a failed LD check at LD 9 with a Reroll. The Conscripts do so at LD 5.

And if you include the 75 point respawn option, both units cost roughly the same after you stick some power weapons in the platoon squad for added offense.

There just is no reason into taking conscripts at all that a platoon cannot do better.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

QBall78 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:59:29 -0000

That was what I first hoped for. But just to make shure I called GW-rules-hotline and the guy there told me something different.

Nonetheless that doesn't has to mean anything, because when I take a look at my rulebook I can't find a word resembling "EVER". So it seems that GW is stumbling over it's own bad rulebook-translation into german (not the first time and probably not the last... I fear...).

Does it really say "EVER"? That leaves me some hope...

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

BuFFo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:54:40 -0000

Just remember, even at 50 strong, it only takes killing, what, 11 or 12 of them from shooting or a few casualties in CC to make them run away on their awesome LD of 5.

For a few points more, you can have 50 guardsmen with ld 9 an morale rerolls.

Just a thought.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

mordiano — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:34:58 -0000

Thats 25% assuming you take no uppgrades... which u cant anyway with the conscripts.

Absorbing hits by incoming fire and CC... and fighting back reasonably similar in CC (getting hit on 3+ etc.)

Then there is also the "respawn" option....

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Soylent Robot — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:34:17 -0000

Oh yeah. Conscript Mobs can be so huge that if you surround an objective with them there's no way your opponent can get within the 3" contested range without taking a few turns to chew through them.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

Soylent Robot — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:32:23 -0000

My Traitor Guard army consists of:
1 Apostate Preacher with Power Scourge (Lord Commissar with power sword)
6 units of Renegades (Penal Legion Troopers Squads!)
Its like Top Gear: ambitious but rubbish.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

BuFFo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:05:42 -0000

Just take 3 Ratling snipers. They are better in every way. Unless the issue is that you already used up your elite slots. If so, just give your company command squad a bunch of sniper rifles.

The only real, unique use for a special weapon squad is their ability to mass up on demo charges.

Re: 40K TACTICA: The Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon

little brother — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:56:09 -0000

Does anyone use 3 sniper rifles in a specila weapons squad. I would love to do it because I like the cadian sniper models and is fluffy with my armies background. But are they any good? Would it improve things if I took 2 special weapons squads both equiped with sniper rifles? Opinions please.