-
Website
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/ -
Original page
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-tactics-jaws-of-world-wolf.html -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
All Comments
Oh, and by the way, I'm already hearing a resurgence of really bad pronunciations of the name "Njal Stormcaller". The letter "j" in the name is pronounced like in the word "fjord". Fee-yord, Nee-yall. It's a Nordic name. Now please stop calling him En-jall or Ni-jall. Thank you from the gods of grammar and learning about other languages besides English.
and now they have the most powerful psychic powers of all the space marines.
hmm where did I leave a hammer called...LOREhammer
The only thing I can think is it's not a 'real' psychic power, or it's some inate ability their lycanthropic tendancies blesses them with.
Or maybe the SW have just mellowed on the subject. After all, they're genetically super-enhanced, seven-foot tall killing machines that harbour the entity of a psychotic beast, and who fly on space-ships between stars through a pseudo-psychic rift in reality to battle a myriad of aliens, monsters and even dieties. Having a 'thing' against psychic powers just seems a litle out of kilter with a world view that would be considered pragmatic in such a situation.
"You can levitate stuff with your mind? Ah, no probs mate. Now, excuse me while I drink gallons of mead, worship a Demi-God who lives into eternity on a iron lung/throne thing, and then ponder the fact that I'm a scientifically boosted abomination of nature."
I haven't read the wording of the power but so far it has nothing on the brokeness of lash.
The difference between a few models getting removed from play and a whole unit getting dragged out of cover for some plasma cannon/vindicator lovin' is minimal. At least JotWW gives you a chance to pass the test, lash just has to pass a psychic test and you can wave goodbye to a unit/that next turn charge/that objective.
The reason JotWW shows up GW as absolutely incapable rulewriters is because it's a power that does absolutely nothing to some codexes, while completely rapes others. That's the antithesis of balance. The reason daemonhunters as a codex was overpriced rubbish was exactly because of this. It was an army that could completely rape daemons so their units had to be costed high. But when they play against anyone other than daemons they don't stand a chance.
GW needs to drop a bit of cash and hire some real talent.
But at 24" this can't really be avoided, and unlike Assault Terminators can go off as soon as it touches down on the table.
Stop freaking around and talk with the SW-players in your group. Make it clear that you don't want to play against something like this (especially as Tyranid or Nec) and if your opponent does, that it will be his last game against you. Few will argue against it.
If you want to join a tournament: talk to the organisers and ask them if they can forbid the power (but I'm sure most will do it on their own ^^!).
Another victory for mech lists!
too many eggs in one basket.
Too bad for pure Nurgle Daemon players and Nidzilla I guess. I don't understand why GW would create something like this which would invalidate those lists. I don't think the power is unfair, but I do think it wil have some unfortunate implications. I also don't get why they made monstrous creatures so vulnerable to it - as if Space Wolves needed help killing Monstrous creatures.
Also: I notice this does not affect vehicles at all. Mech gets more and more competitive all the time. I suspect a highly mech IG, Tau or Eldar list would be an absolute NIGHTMARE for Space Wolves.
Question: How does this affect gargantuan creatures? I think they just lose D6 wounds, correct?
Gargantuan creatures would be unaffected if that above text is verbatim. Since they are not listed, they are not effective. It doesn't matter anyway, as the Gargantuan Creature rules state that they always pass any characteristic test they are required to make.
Not that worried with my Eldar and their hight I + runes of warding, but I'm crying with my Necrons...
Then I won't feel miffed when my models disappear. I can't mke I tests. Ever.
If someone tried to play it as a 1" wide line, I think they'll find less and less players facing them.
or at least, they should.
from dictionary.com
a continuous extent of length, straight or curved, without breadth or thickness; the trace of a moving point.
1---------------------------------------o-------------------------2
1 is your priest, 2 is the point you chose. If one model ( o in the example) is directly in between the two, it will be affected, I don't even know why someone asked this question.
no one bloody measures his line as 1' width, seriously.
At least I'll have a way of dealing with the C'tan now (20 Deathwing terminators vs. C'tan = 2 surviving terminators and a dead god).
My Deathwing may become Puppywing in about a month, with a few rune priests for pesky critters that I can't otherwise kill from range and will eat terminators in CC.
I'm guessing that it allows you to snipe characters as well?
"except for the rules detailed in this section for each unit type, these units follow the same rules as infantry"
"if the Codex doesn't say any different, follow the rules for the appropriate unit type, and if those rules don't say anything different follow the basic rules for infantry."
So... since the Codex doesn't say to count jump infantry as infantry for the purpose of the list of units affected then we would follow the rules for the appropriate unit type. Namely the unit type of "Jump Infantry", which are not on the list (that is admittedly paraphrased, so may include them in the final copy of the published Codex).
The entry at the beginning of the "unit types" section on pg 51 clearly states that for rules not specified in this section to treat these units as infantry. The JotWW affects infantry. Other than having some special movement rules (including deep strike), troops with jump/jet packs are infantry. JotWW does not affect any aspect of the jump pack rules that differentiate them from normal infantry (especially since they do state that those models don't fly, but rather hop long distances and end their turns back on the ground) so I can't see how this power could be read to not affect jump infantry just because they were not on the list.
I'm not saying this to be mean or vengeful, I play Tau! My suits will get nerfed more than most peoples units. Its just the way it is until a more precise version of the rules is printed or a faq comes out.
I dunno, the way it's written it just makes more sense to me that it doesn't affect jump infantry, although I fully understand where your interpretation is coming from.
Since its a shooting attack, you can only use it in your turn.
If your the target your not "jumping" and still footing it on the ground.
Since it is an initiative test, I believe if you fail, you didn't hit the thrusters fast enough, jump to the side, etc...and Fall to your death.
Or you jump clear/ thrust away and make it.
Fluff wise, it fits because Fenris has a huge elliptical orbit. It is frozen for most of its orbit. Then gets close enough that the plant get squeezed by "the jaws of the World Wolf" as it reaches its closest point to the sun.
I imagine that if I were to play SW then I'm gonna be tempted to try and go second and deploy off the board hoping to keep everything back until the Priest appears and them make sure I take him out v=before he can even use the power. And if I fail then spread everything out.
I can just imagine losing a game to this when on the last turn a lone man is huddled down on the objective and a Ruin Priest (sorry Rune) decides to zap them out of existence from across the board.
God I hope it's expensive...
And you can have 4 of them, the 2nd power must be different on all for (ruin) priests.
~ Zilla
This power will still freak me out tho.
Nurgle greater demons hate life and carnifexs are just plain old screwed.
In light of this power I have been redesiging my tyranid list to phase out my carnifexs because of the fact they will die.
but I'm pretty sure that Necrons don't get WBB against "removed from play".
-) If there is another unit nearby they lay down with a chance to return.
-) No unit nearby they go away.
As I understand it in 4th the FAQ said they didn't get a roll but that faq is gone.
(I have played one Necron army (bolscon) in the last 8 years so I am rusty)
*edit: Silly me, I glossed over it in the very topic I'm posting in. It doesn't have that extra tidbit, so as odd as it seems, I don't think Necron models eligible for a WBB roll have to be removed completely.
**edit edit: Ok, so I'm still iffy on this. I want to say they should be destroyed but I'm really not sure.
Necrons don't get WBB if
- no armor saves in Clos Combat
- Double toughness
nether aplies to this power.
so they do get there WWB by RAW
i bow to your knowlogde!
Casualty according to the rule book (foot of page 24) is not necessarily dead - they may be knocked unconscious, too injured to carry on or incapacitated in some other way.
Necrons wont get their WBB if its a close combat weapon that allows no armor saves that drops them or a weapon strength of twice their toughness
You wouldn't try to get back up from a Death or Glory! death, and the wording is the same here.
Per the Necron codex pg. 13 if they are reduced to 0 wounds, or removed as a casualty, then they get the WBB. Unless they errata that power, as it stands above, it removes directly, and doesn't count as a casualty.
This power sounds like a crevasse opens in the earth, swallows units, and you can also throw money into it to feed the dark souls at GW. I hate stuff like this.
You don't get WBB from a Sweeping Advance because it doesn't wound the model, it just removes them from the game (which counts as a casualty in 5th. Ed). JotWW does the exact same, it doesn't wound the model or anything. It just removes it from play (which counts as a casualty in 5th. Ed).
Mind you, all of this is based on speculation on a paraphrased power, but logically and RAW-wise, there is no argument here.
I don't see how this applies to a giant crack in the ground that sucks them into the mantle.
I sometimes wonder if these sorts of things are part of a larger GW marketing strategy. Not the much-derided "power creep," so much as the fact that every Codex seems to have a unit, psychic power or whatnot that is enormously over-the-top and broken, to the point where one must assume that it was intended to be that way. It's like a little dose of Warmachine in the 40K play environment, designed to get the power-players buying up the newest army without completely wrecking hell with the meta-game.
The answer for me is the same as with Lash or Weaken Resolve. Stay in the Trukks and Wagons until the psyker is dead.
I would like to know that before I flip out and declare it over-powered.
As far as I read the posts you can get two HQs with this power (rune priest) and 2 other HQs.
or
One super powered HQ (at over 300) and 2 lesser HQs one of which is a rune priest.
...
oh wait, didn't boba fett get killed by a giant gaping pit in the ground?
crap.
Is this from the Fanspanded Universe, or a video game?
edit* bugger scratch that just read the damn power again.
IMO this ability is sort of like a lot of the guard units. In general, you wouldn't really take it, but if you know what you're playing against, it can be devastating.
page 52 of the big rule book:
"if the Codex doesn't say any different, follow the rules for the appropriate unit type, and if those rules don't say anything different follow the basic rules for infantry."
So... since the Codex doesn't say to count jump infantry as infantry for the purpose of the list of units affected then we would follow the rules for the appropriate unit type. Namely the unit type of "Jump Infantry", which are not on the list of units affected. The list is not the published list so in the actual Coodex it may list them.
Jet bikes however are listed on the next page simply as a type of bike (in the same way jet packs and jump packs both make for jump infantry even though they have different rules), so I still think they would affected, but again I think for this level of nitpicking we will probably have to wait for the published product.
"Except for the rules detailed in this section for each unit type, these units follow the same rules as infantry."
This implies that they should follow the rules for infantery as general, but does this mean that they are infantry? If not I guess that Jump Infantry are safe, as is Jet packs. So hurray for Tau.
Seriously.. the rune priests now wield what? 4 of the 8 strongest psychic powers in the game?!
At least we still have mind-war and doom.
Though with GW's propensity for trying to remove rerolls from the game, I can see both Guide, Fortune and Doom either being altered or removed entirely from the power list.
I frankly imagine I won't get much. They've been "nerfing" the eldar since 2nd ed. Though the 4th ed redux of the codex fixed some shining errors, and created a few more.
I guess that vespid finally have a whole new use against someone...
Do people actually play that a line is not a line but a rectangle? Is our geometric education failing so badly? :p If someone tries to use a tape measurer to signify a "line" then you should politely remind them that a line that has a length and a width of unequal lengths is indeed a rectangle and not a "line"
So my thoughts on this power , if my assumption is correct then im not overly impressed with this power unless you deploy your units in a regimented fashion or in straight lines which i have never seen aside from possibly an IG player in planet strike. Playing tau however I could see this making the JSJ of battle suits problematic since it ignores terrain, however as it dosnt mention that it does not need a line of sight ( example of something mentioning it not needing line of sight in the tau codex is the seeker missile page 31) by my logic that means in order to target something in terrain you would need TLS to target it of course you could always target something in the direction of said unit and just hope its within 24 of the line.
All in all this power needs a FAQ so it can be specified more clearly.
I would be a lot less peeved if the rules don't state "remove the model". I would be much happier with instant death or X wounds. garbage.
I was at least hoping the power was Heavy 1 but no it doesn't seem so.
and yhea apparently the power is free for the HQ model which has a base cost of around 99 points.
Eldar are supposed to be the über psycher of the universe, still SW have us matched when it comes to stopping psychic-powers and now sports a power that are better in many ways then our Mind war.
The only difference is that Mind war works on any model, JOtWW do not work on models with I 6 or higher.
I was more upset yesterday, but the more I think about it the more it is a bit of "Cry wolf!", the power are tremendous and can be game wrecking in the right circumstance but most of the time it would do very little. The three most obvious losers would be Tyranids Carnifexes, Necrons (bye bye Lord with Orb!) and Nurgle HQs as most of them have I 2.
I think the only thing that still bugs me is the range, should have been 12" or 18" if you ask me.
Now the Marines and IG have skimmer transports...
Now in light of the Lash and the Rune Priests, Eldar are middle of the pack Psychers? How will they keep up with all this codex creep for the next Eldar Codex?
Eldar immune to all Psychic powers and theirs go off automatically without Ld tests? Oh, and all Eldar are I10 and more 12"?
Obviously I'm being facetious but some of this 'creep' is just wiping out the uniqueness of some armies.
Have only so far read second hand information on the power.
So a 6 is always in this case "Bye bye!"?
At first I thought the text "-1 to the die roll" would help but apparently the 6 failing occurs before modifying. BRB pg 8
(and as of right now no saves, as I understand)
I thought that Eldar would be safe.
Now I guess Runes of Warding are mandatory.
And I thought that IG psychers was bad new...
It applies not only to units and physical goodies, but psychics as well. The SM codex mostly outdated the Eldar 'dex when it was released. IG's new dex has some frighteningly powerful psychic powers in it as well.
At least this power doesn't screw us Eldar players as much as it does, say...nidzilla, tau and horde armies. (Think of what an enfilading Rune priest could do to a IG static gun line w/24"...)
There is no to hit roll.
There is no armor save or invulnerable save roll.
The wound roll is replaced by an initiative test.
If I could point to any model within 24" of my rune priest and say, "I'm going to roll this dice. On a 5 or 6 that model is dead," you'd say that that ability was unfair. Well, that's what this ability does, except it does it for a potentially unlimited number of models.
As a point of comparison, what is a marine's chance of killing another marine with his bolter? 2 x 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/3 = 4/18 = 2/9. 2/9 < 1/3.
Rule of thumb: is an ability so powerful or useful that a player would be a moron not to use it? Then it's too powerful. A Space Wolf player would be a moron to not take a rune priest with World Wolf.
I hope it does need los, I'd hate to think of them popping this power off from inside a Land Raider. It's going to be bad enough them doing it from Rhinos and Razorbacks.
As an Eldar player, I don't feel to threatened by this (high I and Runes of Warding ftw !). Necrons just got kicked in the teeth again though, low I and I'd imagine no WBB from this
on the other hand a 100pts guy killing carnifexi on 3+ each turn from 24 afar and sitting in a 9 man squad inside a rhino is bad enough :(
whoelese thinks this power alone was the reason for nids feb? I forecast either an immense buff to shadow (tyranids psychic hood) or carnifexi with i3(4)...
But there are bigger and better things coming for nids, so best hold off the cries of nerf bearded cheese till we see what is in store for the other armies.
As an Ork player, I'm not going to foot slog 30 Orks towards this monster and allow him at least two turns of whittling the mob down. I'll load 20 in a Battlewagon and make sure all of them hit assault.
That or just sit back with 45 Lootas and shoot him. :D
As an Ork player, I'm not going to foot slog 30 Orks towards this monster and allow him at least two turns of whittling the mob down. I'll load 20 in a Battlewagon and make sure all of them hit assault.
That or just sit back with 45 Lootas and shoot him. :D"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
You havent seen the Lightning Arc power yet... something like d6 str 7 hits on a unit at unlimited range, without needed line of sight....
That power has lootas written all over it....
Very glad I quit playing Dark Angels. It looks like a pretty pathetic rivalry at the moment.
If so, I shudder to think what a Runepriest could do inside a nice cozy Landraider...
The RP start at 99+ pts, and the Chooser of the Slain is a must have upgrade for non mech lists!
Essentially, its a cyber crow that acts as an UNTOUCHABLE marker placed during deployment ANYWHERE, and doesn't allow any enemy infiltration within 18"
Njal Stormcaller is the SW version of Tigerius. He wieghs in at 1/4 of a 1000 pts, but he has a Storm Caller power that automatically builds ALL game, all without taking any pyschic tests.... it's just mother nature helping the old shamen wolf out!
So, a Rhino moves into position first turn, pops smoke if in the open, and since I doubt this power has a "Heavy" tag on it, you can get another 12" of movement in turn 2, then use this power. Any model on the table (4x6, typical size for boards in my area) is within that threat range.
Sniping characters is going to suck :/ There's never been a better reason to keep using plasma cannon Dev squads, though!
I just know I'm going to see a rune priest deep striking in (if they can) and laying a 24" line through all my Necron warriors and phasing them in a turn, or seeing a over 350pt Nightbringer die in one application. Cheers GW....
Strange but, thats the way it is.
I wonder if the the Space wolf requirement for all characters to have unique wargear would prevent more than one Rune priest taking this power??
World Wolf only barks at vehicles and goes chasing cars :P
Of course this only works based on this rumours...
An as far as I can tell, it is one of the powers a Rune priest have. The rune prist on its won is a good modell, it has one of the best anti psycher abilities in the 40k univers.
So in a turnament list I would say it is a no brainer to have him.
I don't think your assumption on low I and low save beeing linked is all that true.
For example Necron Tomb spider, Nurgle HQ have a high toughness and fair save, and Tau Broadsides have a OK save.
Loves: mustard
Hates: Being removed from play
Is this power good, HECK YES. Does it break the game, no I don't think so.
I will give the power a try, but my opinion on it is still that it only has mild effectiveness when looking at the game as a whole.
Yeah, those sisters are totally screwed...
don't know for sure. it is a cool power. it can be hidden from like lash by piling all the troopers into transports (This line may pass through terrain. Monstrous creatures, beasts, cavalry, bikes and infantry models that are touched by this line must take an Initiative test.(bgb p.8)) i'll lose the odd guy to it but not too worried as the rune priest is effected by torrents of fire like everything else in the game.
i'm glad they got something useful will be fun trying combos to counter the new powers and tactics
Which isn't far from the truth, it is a crazy power. But then I realised: It doesn't say anything about 'enemy' units. Looks like it works the same as a vibro cannon, /all/ units are hit. Which means their's are as well. So basically, if I keep it so there's one of their units between me and the rune priest, they're taking a gamble of losing their own men in using it on me.
For armies like necrons, yeah, its quite deadly, but well, now you know what unit to concentrate your fire on.
While zogoworts curse is 18", it only can target IC's and the roll off is totally random and so it isn't any more or less effective against any particular army. The gift of chaos is even more limited in a way, having only a 6" range, and requiring both a psychic test and a toughness test, though instead of removing the model from play you can replace it with a spawn which is pretty cool.
I'm not saying this is broken, or that it is unique, only that it does seem to be a substantial departure from the other two similar powers in terms of potential effectiveness.
That's the part that scares me, anyway. It's not the baked beans, it's the SPAM.
I'm also not 100% convinced ou can field 4 of them. The unique powers/wargear thing for ICs is worded very strangely - it really can be read as either not the same combination of powers, or no duplication of powers at all (meaning if you take njal, he will be your only runepriest). Its probably going to take a FAQ to sort out, which is kind of sad, but kind of par for the course when it comes to GW...
if it had a 6" range like gift of chaos or was limited to a unique named charachter and therefore a 1 per army it would all be ok.
atm its simply the best psychic power. even your normal space marine falls for it on a 5+ beeing equal to a normal armor save. this alone would be a bargain "draw a straight line and everything along it is wounded automatically" but with the better instant death it better had a yet undisclosed drawback.
if not... RIP Lash, HAIL Worldwolf, king of cheese!
Doubt it.
Hopefully you can take your army off the shelf when the new book drops, supposedly early next year.
And, being a nid player myself, this power is a great motivator to field less carnifexes and to get to kill the psyker as fast as possible :D
I'm assuming that this fella can deploy via drop pod, so any army that deploys in straight lines is screwed, particularly tau and necrons but guard don't get away so lightly either. Your average guard army would have a lot of models that could be attacked in one go and half of them would be instadead and the other half would be sorely tested to maintain morale.
By my reading, necrons get hit decently hard, tyranids get smacked really hard, and to most everything else, it's a typical sniper ability.
This isn't even taking into consideration nuking the Res Orb'd Lord so you can cheese away the rest of the warriors with PW and Low AP weapons.
4 of them using this every turn will suck, and especially in some SW builds (I am looking at something with 4 drop pods and a Rune Priest in each.
I agree that if you tailor your armies to your opponents against some it might not make the cut, but for most people that use one list for all enemies it will be in there.... and its a 1 in 6 of killing anything... special characters beware.
It also doesn't seem to affect vehicles, so perhaps transports can protect your troops until they get out, preferably in assault range of the priest. Monstrous Creatures are going to have to use their speed to get into combat (wings, running, whatever) where the psychic power can't be used on them (its a psychic shooting attack, so it can't shoot into combat)
The least you can do is to spread out the things the priest is most likely to target, so he can only get one a turn. At most the SW can have up to two priests.
Alternatively, just shoot the bastards. All the "at risk" armies, Tau, Necrons, Tyranids, Nurgle and Orkz all have access to long range shooting attacks which can easily kill a guy in power armour with one shot (railgun, heavy gauss cannon, venom cannon, defiler battle cannon/soulgrinder tongue weapon, killkannon/boomgun respectively). The best thing is that, apart from the 'nids, you can get these weapons on vehicles, which the power can't touch.
I am not a big tournament player so I only have to worry about players using this at my LGS. Most players there aren't interested in running super tournament lists all the time so I'm not too worried about seeing four models all using this power.
I would not be surprised to see it get FAQ'ed down to only one of each power in your army.
Am I missing someting here, or isn't the Avatar I5 and the WL an I4 MC, meaning that both would go flying into the depths of my mighty wolf's bowels on a 5+ and 4+ respectively?????
I also think this power is neat against Fateweaver, another pet peev of my Wolves. ;)
Less than or equal to I
You have to roll equal to or under your Initive value, and being an MC you reduce the number on the die by 1
so its not all that bad, although no saves will hurt MEQ armies and such.
no such luck
Am I missing someting here, or isn't the Avatar I5 and the WL an I4 MC, meaning that both would go flying into the depths of my mighty wolf's bowels on a 5+ and 4+ respectively?????
I also think this power is neat against Fateweaver, another pet peev of my Wolves. ;)
At least GW figured that out!
I'm not paying 125pts for a Sorcerer when I can pay 100 for a damned SW one that's better. Bye bye 1000 sons army (ironically)...
Is it awesome against nids...but nids are the next dex after wolves...jaws will have 3-4 months of making nid players cry...and then it will be the wolves calling the nids cheese...
Against crons...yes it kicks cronny butt. Then again...wolves are an assault army. They would cut through nids regardless.
Depending what it says in the FAQ my tau are either utterly screwed by this power...or only my broadsides...depends if it effects jump infantry or not...
This is one suggestion that a player made and points could be swapped out for two runepriests no problem and a rhino or two on this 1750 point list.
"5 Thunderwolves, all with storm shields, one with thunderhammer, the rest with meltabombs
two 10 man Grey hunter squads each with two melta-guns , a power weapon , and a Drop pod.
6 units of 15 wolves...For a total of 90! These guys are cheap, have the same stat-line as a spacemarine with +1 attack, +1 init, but a slightly lower LD with a reroll if you place them right."
But it is like it is and I guess scuttling stealers and Shadow... will be much more prevalent in my list, especially meeting the local SW-players
IF this had been a 12" range I believe the power would feel and be more balanced and the frustration that will accompany this power being abused would be easier to justify.
Good thing Biovores suck, because they would be instantly killed with an I value of 1, without being a monstrous creature. Brutal.
Also, you can (and will) run the RP in with a bodyguard squad, or in a Rhino. Unlike a DP, which cannot be hidden.
It's not that the concept is bad, it's that it's too good in its current form against all armies, and absolutely a game-breaker against a few other armies. Considering the cost of the Rune Priest as a base model with anti-Psychic defenses, how much of his cost is the JotWW? Can we consider it a 30 point weapon? AFAIK, the most expensive single weapon in the game is the Blastmaster at 40 points, so let's say the power is worth 40 points of the RP's cost. Uh, wouldn't you pay 40 points to get this weapon on ANY other character in the game? If every other single character in the game wishes they had this, even at the exaggerated cost I attribute to it, then it's undercosted.
If the Rune Priest had to pay 40 or 50 points to get this, I might not be so annoyed. Just like I think Chaos should pay 40 or so for the Lash, not 25. Uber powers/weapons/characters are fine... but price them appropriately.
But in the dumb-down 40k of today, having to calculate a price for IC + power are deemed too hard for us, so insted we get to choose two for "free".
And when you calculate the cost for Njal, I am supprised if you arn't getting some things for "free", even if you say they calculate the cost in to the model. Hate to think what he will cost if all costs where paid in full.
Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers are jetbikes, so I don't believe they'll be affected.
so on two dice he has 3/36 chance of failing then the carnifex has a 50% chance of dieing.
so 46% chance of a dead carnifex
on 3 dice it is still a 41% chance of a dead carnifex.
I wonder how many non LD 10 psykers there are...
Odds of failing a psychic test using Ld 10: 8.33% (3/36)
Odds of failing a psychic test using Ld 10 when shadow of the warp is in play: ~19.91% (43/216)
Odds of a dead carnifex with Shadow in the Warp: ~40.04%
As I said, it's still powerful, but it does make a difference.
It's good against Carnifex that's for sure.
Against line troop it's not so good , if i check how i usually play at most you would HIT 2 or 3 marines in a shot so kill 1 or 2.... , less if i'm careful knowing that you have this power
what i wonder is do you get cover save since it's a shooting attack or maybe the part about ignoring terrain removes the cover save ?
It says that it will pass throught almost every living thing. OK, I just dropped a Drop pod, on your nose.
OR maybe... my sideways moving Land Raider, will create a "shadow", and that will be the end of that.
Probably 50 points, that can be easyly saved, with most armies.
For non vehicles... you don't need them. you are playing with 90+ miniatures, you have no need of thoose. moving wisely, it will just tackle 2-3 miniatures of yours pert turn. And if you don't want it to take your BIG GUYS with it, just play with 5 jump infatery, or bikes, or something that moves fast. just to keep that pretty ass guy, quiet, while your troops, arrive in no time.
In the end, this is another stupid power, that can be easily fooled, like infamous "LASH OF SUMMISION". but, that one is 155, in a killer machine. the other, could reach 180, and with a less durable miniature.
'nuff said really
Sometimes GW pushes it a bit I'll admit, but more or less all of their rules end up working out once people learn to adapt; despite all the whiny baby bullcrap that follows every new release.
It's lame - totally fricken lame to be crying about the rule now without even playing against it. I personally look forward to whatever challenge the new SW codex provides - bring it... I'm going to have fun regardless of the outcome, because it's a game and I'm not a whiny bitch.
The SW-codex is printed, that's what I wanted to point out. Many of the "whining" people actually has read the codex so just dismissing everyone as pathetic is a bit general. If my FLGS has an example of the Codex I suspect most FLGS has it....
What we're looking at are the potential to abuse a power, very much like Lash. People got upset about that power as well, and rightly so. Now you see it in almost all hard-core CSM tourney lists. We'll see if JOWW will have the same fate.
I doubt it's even broken... Lash isn't broken, maybe it's pushing it a little, but we've all learned to deal with it - it's not nearly as bad as the initial whiny bullcrap fest lead people to think it would be.
I play tournaments too (with Blood Angels) and I haven't seen as many Lash prince armies as expected and those present weren't necessarily winning either.
I'm sorry but 'reading' a rule, and really hashing it out in actual games - are totally different things. Most of the time the loudest majority are the whiners that hardly even play games - and it's lame.
It hits everything in a 24" straight line right?.... unless you are really really stupid with your movement, consolidations or generally dealing with the rune priest in the first place this should be hitting maybe 1 or 2 models at most for the majority of the time... you lose more to a battlecannon attack on average and the vehicles wielding them are generally harder to kill than a two wound character.
I mean seriously... It is just another reason to send suicide squads of gaunts out to tie up this guy in combat. (You can't make a phychic shooting attach if you can't shoot.)
My only other issues with the codex are that Grey Hunters are cheaper than regular Marines and are way better (2 Special Weapons is better in a tac squad than 1 special/1 Heavy) + acute senses, extra CCW, and counter charge? WTF? Why don't they cost more? They are flat out better.
Also, the ability to take Wolf Guard Terminators as troops with Logan Grimnar is nothing less than a massive loogie in the face of the Dark Angels. Just about the only thing that they still had going for them was the Terminators as Troops bit.
Otherwise it seems like a fair codex to me, with a big silly looking model of a guy riding a wolf.
I can't see why anyone would call codex creep on this army.
Each basic trooper is undercosted, but the squad options aren't as good as for CSM. They don't seem to be better than CSM, just comparable... trading a 2nd special weapon for Counter-Attack and ATSKNF. That 2nd melta or flamer is a pretty big price to pay.
So if a Runepriest decided to use this against a Khorne Daemon that had Blessing of the Blood God, would they get their 2+ Inv. that comes with it?
Think it's time to get the Null Rod out. Radical Inquisitor anyone?
Now, if it were treated like shooting attacks where the owner of the units that lost models picks which models to lose, I don't think many players would be crying too much. At that point, it could only snipe unattached ICs, and that's a lot weaker than being able to rip out any model out of any squad, in addition to having the chance to kill multiple targets.
I suppose common sense and sportsmanship as well as the promise of violence would dictate the width of this 'line'. I think i'll go with tape measure turned sideways to prevent being slapped for taking the michael.
I play regularly against Wraithlords, Lash Princes and Tyranids but I doubt that the first two will be too worried by this power with my inability to roll 6's most of the time. I'll have to see how my clever 'nid opponent counters my rune priest in future before agreeing this power is as broken as people are saying. I just hope I don't play any Greater Daemons of Nurgle any time soon because that would just be plain nasty... Like rubbing salt in wounds nasty...
Of course if this was a melee power no one would be complaining any more, or would they? This stat-test based death is nothing new if you look at Warriors of Chaos and I hope to see more stat-test's in 40k, variety is the spice of life.
That living lightning ability is enough to make guard take anti psycher witch hunter allies too. "Let me get my anti-SW models together and we can play".
just think about it, even taking out only one or two fexs in a game this power makes it more difficult for any nid to handle a mech SW force. especially since the RP can launch these attacks out the fire point of his rhino.
the other i could see happen, Shadow in the Warp becomes "No psychic shooting powers may affect your Tyranid units if they are in Synapse. All psychic powers are rolled on 3D6 and ignore perils of the warp."
Wraithlords have I4, which means with a -1 = they die 50/50.
Overall I don't like this power fluff wise (why are they getting some super powerful psychic power?
Rule wise... will see initially it does sound like a new Lash...
Hopefully after play it won't be as bad as it sounds (and he'll be easy to kill from outside of 24"s)
The biggest defense that Eldar and Nids have (two of the bigger MC users) is they can force them to roll 3 dice for Psy tests.
I wonder if part of the problem is in the past giving away invuln saves too easily and now this is escalation of a way to help them deal with daemons.
Also does it affect all models on the line (not plane) even if they are on another level, like in a building?
40k is becoming worse balanced than WHFB. And it doesn't have the whole "tactics" thing to make up for balance in any way.
Fluff wise.
Eldar are supposed to be the best psyker race in 40k universe not? Chaos (especially TS) can come second.
As for the Imperium, I guess Tigrius is supposed to be the most powerful one out there.
And now? SW suddenly flies to the top of the list. Both on the offensive and defensive side.
Game wise.
I don't even need to write about it. This power can vapourize a few squads of low-I units at once who don't even get a save from it------even high-I units can still be removed on 1/6 basis. Zowart's Squig and GoC, while they can also remove models instantly, have limited range. For Lash, yeah, it's stilll broken but at least you cna't take 4 DP/Sorcerers in an army for Quad Lash. And they must pay points for buying Lash.
In particular, since I play Tau I have a bad feeling about this. Imagine this scenerio: 4 RPs, 1 with Bike, 1 in DP, 1 footslogger and 1 in a transport (all are joining squads, it's just plain stupid to let them walk alone), I guess I'll concede the game instantly. My army strives hard against MEQs and it's not even funny when there're so many big squads coming at once.
(Though, I don't believe Mech armies are the best in 5th, but hybrid ones)
In short, JotWW and along with the whole idea behind RP is utter bullshit.
keep attacking models under cover of their friendly units
Sadly there aren't too many units can do it.
If you check out the codex, its not even clear you can take more than 1 RP with the power. The line says "you cannot take 2 characters with the same saga, psychic power, or combination of wargear".
The sentence is structured with 3 seperate conditions: no same sagas, no same powers, no same combination of wargear. If it was only 1 condition, like say having 2 identical runepriests, but 1 with a WTT to make them different, then the sentence should read: "you cannot take 2 characters with the same combination of sagas, psychic powers, or wargear".
Its the sort of thing that probably seems really obvious to the person who wrote it, but requires close reading by everyone else... which is usually the editor's job, but we know how good GW is on that front.
Regardless, if someone shows up with 4 RPs with jaws, then I would go ahead and use this argument to make your case for disqualifying the list. Just try to make sure whoever is arbitrating has a decent understanding of grammar.
It's a one-trick pony, pure and simple. As long as you're not a dumbass, your opponent is going to have trouble getting more than 3-5 infantry-sized models with JotWW. As long as you're not a dumbass and took the +I on your Carnifexes (which you should do ANYWAYS, if only to go before P-fist equivalents), you've got a 50% chance of ignoring this. As long as you're not a dumbass, he'll NEVER get more than one MC/TMC.
The power is on a T4 model, with a possible +2 save and only has two wounds. He's squishy as all hell, even when he's in a big pack of 15 Blood Claws. With a 24" range, that puts him well within threat range for just about every gun or assault-oriented unit. It sounds easy to deal with.
Even if some dipwad fields four of them, that means he's not taking any CC monsters like Ragnar. If he nixes your big stuff, more than likely he's not prepared to deal with the small stuff which will grind him down.
When I play my Tau, I'll just stay buttoned up in my Devilfish and keep my Crisis Suits spaced correctly, (hell, I'm used to losing a Suit a turn from Krak Missiles and Meltas anyways, why should I complain if it's a Psychic Power killing him instead?)
When I play my Bugs, I'll let my opponent kill my I2 Carnifexes while my I5 Tyrants prance about with my hordes of Warriors keeping Synapse. I'll shove my out-flanking Genestealers up his arse just for good measure.
And when I play my Nob Bikers of Doom? He might get one, maybe two (out of ten) as they're turbo-boosting right into his face.
More importantly, this psychic power won't be "un-fun". I'd rather fight against JotWW spam than Mech-Eldar any day of the week. When all the idiotic Eldar vehicle upgrades come together and my meltas don't work and my Lascannons are only S8 and I only hit on 6s and and I'm rolling 2d6 and taking the lowest and they can't be stunned and they'll swoop in last-minute and contest the objective with one janky, weaponless Falcon so they eek out a tie with two models on the board when I've got the better part of my army alive it's just frustrating and un-fun. It's an exercise in rolling better dice than your opponent at that point.
As long as things are dying, as long as I have to think on my feet because part of my army just got obliterated, as long as I'm having FUN, I think the Space Wolf codex will be just fine. It's a damned GAME after all.
Its not really scary unless he gets close and can look down a gun=line.
and for those who play nidzilla, as i do, just keep pounding them with your sniper and boomfex. we still have other cc killer units, it's called the genestealers...
for me 2 lashes are scarier than jotww... just my two cents
And what about it's point-cost? I do not want to use a 100 pts character + a 50-60pts psy power to hunt down 18 pts Necron warriors. Characters are somewhat protected as well: most of the have I4 or 5, which gives them 1/3, 1/6 chance to fail.
We shall see, but right now it does not seems to be such a dreaded ability, as some say.
1 - It's a psychic shooting power so the normal rules for shooting applies - LOS, no shooting own troops, no shooting in close combat. This means is a serious limitation for an army that excels at close combat. Damage is to be dealt up close and personal. This power doesn't help you do that at all. It does the opposite actually.
2 - It draws a straight line 24". Space your troops correctly and not so many will be affected since it affects models not units. Remember the line must be 24" long so make sure you move your troops tactically sound. If you wanna get close, make sure you move in between the priest and an other enemy unit. Since he can't target his own troops you'll be more safe.
Sure you can take out models with this power - if your lucky you can take out expensive, harecore ones. But most of the time you'll just be sniping troops. Which is a waste of points. There are better powers in the Space Wolves spell book. But in the Chaos one the are better still - I wouldn't trade Warp time, Lash, Wind or Bolt of Change for this. Gift maybe ... but only maybe.
Much like the spells of Codex Marine the spells of the Wolves look good at first glance but not so when giving it some thought.
"In this section, you will find the rules for each of these unit types, namely monstrous creatures, jump infantry, bikes and jetbikes, beasts and cavalry, and artillery. Note that vehicles are also a different unit type, but they are so vastly different that they have an entire section of the rules dedicated to them.
Except for the rules detailed in this section for each unit type, these units follow the same rules as infantry." quoted from the WH40k rulebook.
Now, the psychic power has a list of affected units, monstrous creatures, beasts, cavalry, bikes and infantry. All of these with the exception of infantry are taken directly from the first paragraph of the quote from page 51 of the rulebook (the small BR edition). And since neither jump packs (jetpacks included) nor jetbikes are in the list of units affected, the power has no effect on them.
However, this all depends on how close the wording we were given will be to the actual wording in the codex.
tim
Well, what if the new Nid-codex would have a psychic power that said "Trace a straight line for 24" at any angle. Any vehicle touched by this line will be removed from play (including it´s cargo) on a roll of 3+ (4+ if Fast)". Game breaking ehh?
Would that be ok with all the mech-players? Don't think so.... Carnifexes are the Tyranid equivalent of a tank and with JOWW we don't even get a roll on a second table to save us...
Mind War 18" Range, Requires LOS, leadership roll off, invuln + cover save allowed. 1 Would per point over.
JOWW 24" Range, Does not require LOS, Initiative test ....
Seriously ...
The orders are a nice bonus - not a must have.
And I don't play all mech - I love my platoons!
I'm with you, btw---All infantry, all the way w/my IG force.
Any there's no such thing as the "unbeatable" list or power. But this particular power is about as warped as can be. Fortunately, there are (at least at this point) relatively few SW players in my neck of the woods.
sorry, no orders for you buddy... oh, you needed your commander's aura? well... SCREW YOU! *NOM*
>:-3
It's the WORLD WOLF! GET IN THE CAR!
I think that my Nurgle Daemons have it worst. They are slow, can't shoot and have a Great Unclean One and Epidemus that I really need too "maybe" pull of a win. "/
I hope that I never meet a 4 RP list in a tournament.
Certainly not in the 1st or maybe even 2nd Turn,
so it's 4 to 5 Turns of "a few" models having to make an I test.
More likely the Runepriest player will use this power to hunt sown an otherwise "hard to kill" target with this power.
If you fear this power,
make the Rune Priest your priority kill.
Vehicles are not affected by this Power....
If you wander too close to the big bad wolf then you'll get bit, but if you hit him from range then he's just more kill points - and expensive ones at that!
Dealing with the ability practically - don't bunch up, which is standard patter, use the advantage of longer range, which is standard patter, kill the enemy before he kills you, which is standard patter.
Not having had the benefit of reading the Codex I'm assuming that the text doesn't preclude units engaged in close combat being affected, in which case don't get involved in a close combat within 10 or 15 inches of a Rune Priest, because if he can be positioned for a flank attack then you may find yourself in trouble.
Sorry for seeming underwhelmed by the whole thing, but in my experience a single model with an extraordinary ability rarely wins battles.
I'm looking forward to the first time that my unit of 7 Plague Marines advance on a Rune Priest, take one casualty as the straight line passes harmlessly through the bulk of them, and they then hose the hairy freak with bolter fire and a plasma gun or two! Papa Nurgle loves you all ... to death.
Pardon my babbling if it is not useful.
JotWW is just another example of the apocalisation of the standard 40K system, nothing more and nothing less. Come Feb 2010 we'll see new nids and chances are they'll include something as nasty if not more so.
I just hope that we continue to see a continued manifestation of these 'scary' psychic powers because my sisters are champing at the bit to shrug them off and purge these filthy psykers!!!