DISQUS

RTM · 1 year ago

Storm, dred, great
DARK ELDAR! With JES GOODWIN! Oh, you have made me a happy man. First we get 2.0, now we hear the Master is working on revamping our 15 year old Morleys. WOOHOO!! Jes breathed beautiful life into the dying race troops selections before years ago, it's music to my ears to hear he's doing it again for the Darks.

Traitor legions is just icing on the three-tiered cake.

RTM

baronvoncarson · 1 year ago

Aye. I am so egar to see some of these sculpts now. They can sneak their way onto our series of tubes fast enough! The DE update is going to be exceptional.

Havik110 · 1 year ago

sculpts are nice but 5th ruined the army worse than tau. DE are supposed to be hard to play, not impossible. I can't wait to see the new models but they have been talking about this for 2 years now and if they make me wait another full year or if necrons or the puppys who are not as broken as we are in 5th get a book first, GW will not get any money from me.

baronvoncarson · 1 year ago

I've recently switched to Tau from playing Sisters of Battle and I disagree with Tau being worse in 5th edition. I'm finding them as balanced as ever and extremely competative. Everything still works extremely well in 5th and some things work even better (Kroot comes to mind instantly, every game I've used with them they've essentially secured a victory or tie) than they did in 4th.

One of my friends plays DE and he says they work better now than in 5th edition, BUT that doesn't mean we should wait another year or so for an update. I am fairly certain we'll see DE sometime next year and I'm sure we wont be let down.

Havik110 · 1 year ago

I'd say that any army that has to take a 55 pt piece of wargear to get across the table and is limited to ten models per unit is not as good in the 5th which awards swarm tactics. A unit of wyches in a raider is 246. They lose any advantage of hitting 1st (i mean to say that I used to attack so i would only allow 5 hits back from a unit of 10, now everyone gets their attacks back which when you use units that are wounded 2/3s of the time is bad.)

They cant consolidate into a unit so if they kill everyone wyches will die to any shooting. no the army which was great for 5 years is now almost completely unplayable.

As far as tau, fishes of fury is no longer viable.

Sisters got a big upgrade and I use them myself. Sisters won the ardboys at my store, with (no Joke) Deamonhunters taking 2nd.

NemoHac · 1 year ago

15 years??? You DE players need to stop flogging that dead horse. DE appeared with the release of 3rd ed which was what 1999 so 9 years...

Still not a great timeframe but the drama queening is seriously overdone.

SecondrateSaint · 1 year ago

If they make a stand-alone codex for Thousand Sons, Ill drop orks -UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY- and build a Thousand Sons army from the ground up.

Forhekset · 1 year ago

You could of done that before :P And you still can, to a certain degree.

Daddy · 1 year ago

"we aim to" doesn't mean they will, I'm still waiting for a Xenos inquisitor book. Mind you Goodwin sculpting DE...ohhhh they will be beautiful!

Strykin · 1 year ago

I also would love to see a Xenos Hunters codex. Doubt they will now that there are sternguard

Darkseer · 1 year ago

Stand alone rules for the Chaos Legions were available in the perfectly awesome 4th edition Chaos Marine codex. Sadly, GW obliterated that.

While it's a nice idea, and many die hard Thousand Sons, World Eaters, Emperor's Kids and Death Guard players would love it, GW won't dedicate that much production time to it when Chaos Marines sell perfectly well as it is.

After all, Chaos (just like space marines) gets a new codex with every edition.

baronvoncarson · 1 year ago

I agree with all your points.

I don't know if I'd prefer to see a single codex for the four gods or if I'd rather see the big four represented in a single codex. But then you have to wonder if it's just worth fixing the CSM codex so it can do Undivided and the big four when it comes time to do their 5th edition update (something similar to the old codex)

Ninja Edit: Maybe they'll work them as suppliments to the main CSM codex?

Time will tell I guess.

LEGION3000 · 1 year ago

I wouldn't put money on any new CSM codexes. From what I have heard the latest codex IS the 5th edition codex.

valhallan42nd · 1 year ago

Stand alone rules for the Chaos Legions were available in the perfectly [abusive] 4th edition Chaos Marine codex.

There, I fixed it for you.

blinky · 1 year ago

Its abusive only if you abused it. Its great to see that peoples reactions to an abusive codex is just to remove anything that could be abused in any form, and not simply stop it from being abused. Every codex is abuseable in its own right, and the latest CSM codex is a great example of this (Lash anyone?)

So why remove all the options, even the ones that were fine?
GW: "Well we didnt feel that we could do them all justice, we might release legions later down the track"
US: "What about the latest SM codex? It gives us workable options for various chapters?"
GW: "Did you say space marines? Hurr."

Miggidy_Mack · 1 year ago

If you are a tournament player these abuses were everywhere. If you aren't a tournament player then you can probably convince your friends to let you run the daemons of your god.

I know my friends and I have instituted an "allies" house rule that we are very serious about. Any army can take 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops and 1 Fast Attack from any army that it trusts reasonably well within the apocalypse chart.

We have several chaos players who use daemons of their god from the Daemons codex. It isn't over powered (we require them to deep strike in like normal daemons, no assaulting). I expect this to be the case with any new Codex Legions.

Where is the issue again?

Havik110 · 1 year ago

The old chaos book was filled with huge problems. The Khorne Deamon bomb army, the Iron warriors 9 oblitorators, the Night lords infiltrate then scout then kill you 1st turn list. the fun thing was except for night lords getting 1st turn on you Dark eldar could destroy them :)

right now the new deamon codex has brought out 1 broken list and 1 list that has the potential to kill everyone, including marines. The fate weaver blood crusher list is disgusting but has a hard time against armor (which is fine in 5th). The talleyman nurgle army has the potential to be unstoppable but you need to keep Nick up and get into combat right away.

Savark · 1 year ago

Wow those Models look very nice and the storm certainly look the part!
With the traitor codex i can't really see it happening, maybe the big four but i don't think it is a good idea

BittenByDesign · 1 year ago

Does this mean we will see a lovely plastic set for the ironclad? Awesome!

It will give plenty of leftover bits to convert the plastic one out of the starter set.

great news about DE, and the scout speeder is looking nice.

noah · 1 year ago

i've always liked Thousand Sons, and having their own codex is about what it'd take to get me to start an army of them. they are definitely my favorite chaos legion, so, awesome for that.

oh, and the dread is cool too...

Anon · 1 year ago

While I think Jes Goodwin is the best modeller at GW this doesn't excite me. Without being rude to the fans I don't see Dark Eldar being a part of teh universe anymore. They are so rarely used and he fact that their fluff is done by anotehr race as well if not better I couldn't care less. I'm all for xeno love but just not Dark Eldar.
Traitor legions is a filler to keep angry chaos players calm. My guess is years off. Have to agree 9 codeices is a stretch when all the current ones aren't up to date. I'd rather see one big book that covers all the 9. It's not impossible, hell it was the norm previously to just give them a couple of page (or jsut one page) each. Give some fluff, outlie the specialties of each legion and everyong is happy but once again it is years off

baronvoncarson · 1 year ago

I think the main reason that people ignore DE is because they haven't had any love for a while. I think when it does come time for them to get their update we're going to see all new fluff and probably an entirely new army. Something that'll fit in with the Universe and really shine as an army.

I can see where you are coming from though, as I used to feel the same.

Havik110 · 1 year ago

DE are the truekin. They have been in the game as pirates since Rogue Trader so keep that in mind. They created Slaneesh, they are the reason the eldar live in craft worlds, they have their part just as much as Tau, nids, and Necrons (which they have been around longer than)

Right now they are broken because of 5th but they will rise up. Truthfully I always get a lot of people saying they would play them except the models are hideous. It is GWs fault no one plays them and they are fixing the situation.

The Dark Tau... · 1 year ago

Think if you have "Dark" Eldar still in W40K, you would have Squat still somewhere...

Ryan · 1 year ago

GW literally killed off the Squats.
Nasty Tyranid attack on their homeworlds during a holiday when every-single-one was home.

Shaun · 1 year ago

That would be Hive Fleet Invisibalus.

Creeper · 1 year ago

I'm liking the Storm as an interesting alternative to a Rhino, question as always is points cost.

Dark Eldar: Frigging finally, just release it already.

Forhekset · 1 year ago

50 points.

Hatchett · 1 year ago

There! Now all of us Chaos players can stop bellyaching!
In three years.

Forhekset · 1 year ago

More like 10-20 years :(

abhinavjain · 1 year ago

what gives u that idea???

UltramarineFan · 1 year ago

he does a lot of bellyaching

Sixsystems · 1 year ago

You are absolutely correct- he does do a lot of bellyaching. But I have to admit, I like reading his freak-outs. Makes this blogspot significantly more colorful...

Of course, my views could change entirely when I, finally, have to deal with Hatchett on the other side of an argument....

Hatchett · 1 year ago

What color would that be?

Sixsystems · 1 year ago

Red with rage? Black with seething hatred? In the case of our friend, "truth", the color would be pink and purple and anything else femme.

Heh.

Hatchett · 1 year ago

Ain't that the "truth".

Hatchett · 1 year ago

RED IS RIGHT!!
I do play an almost exclusively Khornate list.
Then there are the others...

abhinavjain · 1 year ago

that seems fairly obvious...
some people seem to like trashing the hobby more than enjoying it... :)

UltramarineFan · 1 year ago

That would be nice

Hatchett · 1 year ago

What would be nice is for you to stop running through the blogs spoiling for an argument. Your life simply cannot be this socially bankrupt.
Can it?
I'm going to cease responding to you, for I asked you kindly to leave off, and because I feel myself slipping into the same type of malfunction that plagues you.
Be nice.>;)

UltramarineFan · 1 year ago

i have you seen my latest comment on the DP argumment

Hatchett · 1 year ago

Just now. I feel like an arsehole.
I'm trying to forget about that silly diatribe, so once again: PEACE?!

Hatchett · 1 year ago

And, yeah, I'm done bellyaching. But I have about three hundred basic troops, seven dreads, five landraiders and thirty Chosen to scrap down and rebuild according to the new rules.
Those rules are actually fine, and will be fun to play. From the modeling standpoint, it's a nightmare...

UltramarineFan · 1 year ago

Ouch that is going to take a while

Hatchett · 1 year ago

Yessss.
I must reiterate here, in case you've not returned to that yawing pit of spite that is the DP blog, that it was Truth I called narrow minded, not you. And in truth, when it comes to the differences between 3rd and 4th edition Chaos, so have I been.
My sincere apologies for the personal blows.
And yes, "brash" is an understatement. But that Truth guy has me beat (or would like to, it appears) hands down!
I take it back, and am an arsehole.

Denzark · 1 year ago

get a room you nosher never apologise!

Hatchett · 1 year ago

With a view?
Actually, I was a jerk to UltramarineFan, to put it mildly. So I apologized. See the Daemon Prince blog if you need reference, but I wouldn't advise it, as it has become an emotional dumping ground for some poor enlisted queer who calls his self-deceiving-self "truth".
Don't get into that one.

UltramarineFan · 1 year ago

@Denzark

Bigred had to nitervene due to the language slipping out of control so just accept that it was a BIG argument and let it be.

UltramarineFan · 1 year ago

Deal
PEACE!

Vanchet · 1 year ago

I was hoping that Legions would also have the Night lords legion in ther rules, that would get me starting one :D

Forhekset · 1 year ago

Holy crap. Traitor legions getting a dex EACH? That's more than I could of imagined. I was happy with one big book with limited fluff... I do hope they hit on Chaos Undivided at least, cause I can't believe they'll do 9 books without similar love for Space Marines first.

The Storm is an awesome addition, whereas the Ironclad is definitely a great unit, I just can't get past my Furioso jealousy (along with vet assault squads :| )

Herald of Nurgle · 1 year ago

Erm, somehow I think only the major ones'll get big codexes. The rest will be Blood angel codex-esqe

rakshasa · 1 year ago

Just my 2 cents ppl.

While the LS Storm looks good i can't see how it could fit 5 Scouts. 4 yes, but 5?

I read the rules for the ironclad and it's awesome. A drop pod with 1-3 of these babies with 2 CCW's and 2 Heavy Flamers, one of them twin linked, and one chainfist (still dunno what the seismic hammer does) could rip through vehicles and squads in no time....but the model looks just too bulky, the arms are too big and with the addition of 2 missiles on top it looks out of proportions with the legs.I don't like it.
The chainsaw arm is OK but the drill and ccw arms are fugly. It's all verygood that it's plastic= konvershun time yay ! :)
Oh and the hurricane bolter arm is also good looking, i doubt that i'll use it tho'.

rakshasa · 1 year ago

Oh and i always wanted to start a DE army. Theyre too cool and radical to pass up, i only need an excuse like good-looking PLASTIC minis and a set of rules adapted to the existing edition .

Oh and Father Nurgle beckons to me....let's see what turns out of this so called Legions Books ;)

abhinavjain · 1 year ago

seismic hammer is a thunder hammer of str10 i blv that adds +1 to any AP roll against armor

Khornatedemon · 1 year ago

The seismic hammer is a DCCW that add's +1 to the damage chart for vehicle penetration.

The heavy flamers are normal, not twin linked, unless your playign with vulkan.

I think I'll probably use the forgeworld seige dread arm to convert one for myself.

rakshasa · 1 year ago

Hmmm, +1 for armour penetration roll or for the result on the damage chart?

And yeah, you're right it's 2 heavy flamers to replace the storm bolter and melta.
I was confusing it with the twin-linked HF from the "normal" dreadnought.
Anyway, if you have Vulkan He'stan and you have a dread with twin-linked HF, would you be able to reroll the reroll? That would be sweet ;)

Khornatedemon · 1 year ago

+1 on the damage chart. So a penetration will destroy a vehicle on a 4 or better and a glancing 6 can destroy a vehicle. Pretty sweet. Str 10 and 3 base attacks is usually enough against most vehicles as opposed to the chainfist and the +1 works against a monolith whereas the chainfist doesnt.

One or two of these drop podding in will most likely make it into my sallies army eventually.

abhinavjain · 1 year ago

i know i'm gonna luv the ironclads now!! i got my 1st 2 dreads from Black Reach and I have a feeling that my games are not gonna be the same again... :)
for the glory of him on earth!! marines forward!!

Rottenbob · 1 year ago

No glancing hits anymore one table all hits on vehicles are rolled on one table!

Big Ben · 1 year ago

i was in the seminar. i believe he said he was considering doing some of the chaos marine codices. he wasn't going to do all of them, probably the most popular ones.

Gravidian · 1 year ago

The main 4 legions DON'T need they own book. The legions that need their own books are the other undivided legions that lost all their rules in the newer codex (Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Night Lords, Alpha Legion).

The main legions can be perfectly created in the current book with the cult troops that make up those armies. But the undivided legions lost all their character. For example IW need their vehicles back, alpha legion need cultists etc.

As a die hard chaos player, especially Iron Warriors, this is what needs to be done.

Havik110 · 1 year ago

so you can try your old broken list again. The night lords list was 2nd most broken list only to the old iron warriors list. Dont know why youd want it in 5th edition though. Plus unless they give oblitorators 5 toughness that ship has sailed.

Forhekset · 1 year ago

Any news about the new Land Raider that Forge World was supposed to have unveiled?

FabricatorGeneral · 1 year ago

This was stated by a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend who called mail order (ie: on Warseer) to have been a mistake on the press release

Dajanitor · 1 year ago

AHhhh if that dread looks liek that, and is in plastic, i will be having 3 of them....

DG · 1 year ago

In the UK Seminar Phil Kelly said that although they would like to do CSM codex's for each legion, they arent on the roadmap and would not be done until all main races are redone, given they are on a rolling schedule i doubt we'll ever see legion books.

LEGION3000 · 1 year ago

Yep, exactly what I had heard. _If_ they are made I would put money on web-dexes like the Blood Angels. Probably all done by JJ in his free time.

DA sucks... OR? · 1 year ago

More books is not whats needed, bring back the small books from third ed or do both loyalists and chaos as mix between the 4ed chaos and 5ed Marines.
Give some special rules to legions and first founding chapters and then special charachters and let the rest be a standard codex with the things every one get.

This would be managable and there would be no f**k-up as there are with C:DA.
I don't think the 40k univers needs more marines anyway.

Bring on the Dark eldar...

CT · 1 year ago

I agree that more books causes more problems... It'll take that much longer to redo them all when seventh edition rolls arond in six years. I'd rather see an annual campaign book that highlights army variants like Codex: Armageddon and Codex: Eye of Terror have done in the past. That way several armies get a little love and everyone gets an awsome campaign to play.

Gade · 1 year ago

JESUS CHRIST!

Im so sick and tired of listening to people complaning about the new chaos codex. "i cant make my tsons or iw army anymore, bew hew!"

#1: ALL of the marked legion troops are in the troops. Icons is an option for EVERY infantery-model in the dex = all the marked legions is still do-able!

#2: Chosen squads has the infiltrate skill = alpha legion is do-able! (use lesser deamon-stats as cultists if you wish.)

#3: Nightlegion had alot of raptors and mobility. Take some raptors and make a mobile army, and stop whyning about not having 4 fast choices anymore. They are dang expensive anyway, so beef up your 3 remaining choices instead.

#4: the vindicator is now w/o the 0-1 so iw can still make a crazy "heavy-support-heavy" army with princes. Aftyer all, the iw army was the most hated to play, so alittle nerf is just fine.

...dont think i have to explain how to make a world bearers army...?

Forhekset · 1 year ago

Still can't deny that the flavour of it was gutted. Not to mention all the characterful options. Slaughtered and over-simplified. Boring.

I built Khornate possessed with Daemonic Mutation, and the champion had a combi-melta and a lightning claw. Now I just have fancy looking possessed that don't do half of what they appear to. If you want a practical complaint, I can't put them on the tabletop without having to explain them, or just never use them to avoid confusion.

Miggidy_Mack · 1 year ago

RULES IS NOT FLAVOR! This is frankly ridiculous. The difference between generic daemons and marked daemons is actually pretty academic. My friend built an INCREDIBLE looking Thousand Sons army. He used a bunch of fantasy skeletons as his daemons. Gave them all crazy mod'd weapons and worked really hard to pull it off.

His daemons have a lot of flavor. His sorcerers are summoning really cool looking daemons and killing lots of stuff. That is flavor. Not having rules for god specific daemons.

Miggidy_Mack · 1 year ago

Rules is not Flavor. Now I admit that the loss of something that made a model legal sucks, but very few armies became unplayable all the sudden.

My friend built a pretty bad ass Thousand Sons army using converted skeletons as his daemons. It has a LOT of flavor and looks really really cool.

Madjob · 1 year ago

"Rules are not Flavor"

They are when a legion is reknowned for fielding an abnormal number of a certain sort of unit or even a unit that normally is not available to that army.

You cannot do a typical Night Lords or Iron Warriors army anymore, which is rather sad. Sure, you can load up on Raptors for your Night Lords or have a metric ton of tanks in your Iron Warriors, but it's no different than any other army doing that.

Eddie · 1 year ago

you can use another codex if your rules don't do your army justice.
that's what i do with my elysians. i didn't want to pay 110usd for a book, so I use the eldar codex.
vulture- falcon
valkyre- wave serpent
troopers- guardians
storm troopers- dire avengers
snipers-snipers
troops with meltaguns- dire avengers

your army can still be fluffy without using your own codex
-eddie

LEGION3000 · 1 year ago

I just don't see why removing the fluff from a codex suddenly invalidates the army. There are dozens of novels, rulebooks, and websites that can be used for fluff. The codex does not stand in a vacuum nor is it the only source of material.

As I have also explained to my good friend that has 5 terminators modded up to be sorcerers, "You can't fault GW for changing something that you have specifically modded to be different than vanilla codex." They simply cannot hold back change because of they may invalidate someones cranked up list.

Also, I converted all my standard Chaos marines with Chaos lord helmets capes and other stuff to look extra badass. I have never had a problem with people confusing them for a unit of lords.

xsuicidekingx · 1 year ago

You are missing the point entirely. You forget that 9 of the 18 known first founding chapters went to chaos. These armies have some of the absolute best fluff in the game as far as space marine chapters go. What GW has done in the latest codex is forget that entirely. Even the hope of the "big 4" legions is nothing, because, as you pointed out, all of the marked legion troops are troops.

As a Night Lords player since second edition, it is frustrating to see my army who, by all fluff, we had the first assault marines. you would think that would count for something, yet there are the blood angels with their assault marines in the troop selection. And there are the raven guard, with kayvaan shrike, an absolute monster of an assault marine.

To me, it is not that i can not make an effective army with the current codex, because i can. It is simply that the codex had all flavor destroyed. SM 4th edition codex had chapter traits, which allowed for the creation of custom units, and took 2or 3 pages out of the codex. Would it be that hard for GW to add something similar to Chaos? No. But GW has shown the entire community that SM will always be favored. While we have 1 codex to cover at least 9 legions (plus the red corsairs) of chaos space marines that are apparently all identical, GW has gone out and made 3 first founding chapter codices, 1 SECOND founding Codex, and a codex that allows for the play of first and second founding chapters (some with their own independent characters. Hell, The legion of the damned, a 21st founding chapter even gets love.

All i ask is that they take their time with every codex, because even i realize that DE and WH/DH have every right to be pissed as they have been forgotten for far longer.

Miggidy_Mack · 1 year ago

This I totally understand. A book with the legions in it (and marine chapters in another) would really be cool. Then maybe a craft worlds book.

Hell, Codex: Inquisition could be mostly based on Imperial Guard!

CT · 1 year ago

Deamons were part of what made Chaos Space Marines distinct from Imperial Space Marines. Having them all but removed from the codex is like removing any tank better than a rhino from the loyalists. I still can't believe that the daemons codex didn't have rules for allied forces (Inquisition will surely lose any ability to ally when they're revisited).

Chaos doesn't have the ability to alter their force organization at all which is practically a standard with most 4th edition releases. I see little to no reason for newbies to play Chaos especially when the new codex space marines hits.

Hydian · 1 year ago

#1 uh...no. Having an icon that is almost like being a noise marine is not the same as being a noise marine with access to assault/heavy weapons. It doesn't come close in fluff and it certainly can't come close in rules. The way that the counts-as rules work completely guts a noise marine army as well because entire squads cannot be fielded since they cause confusion as to what they are armed with.

The new chaos codex is great for making certain spikey marine lists. Then again, the old codex was also great for making those same lists in addition to being great for making flavorfull lists (not just cult and/or legion.) What should have happened with the new codex is that the specific rules that were abused should have been fixed and the neat things like icons added in. What did happen is that they were unable or unwilling to actually do so and decided to just scrap anything complicated (or more likely...anything that they didn't play in the studio.)

All of that said, I certainly don't think that each legion needs or warrants its own codex. That is just silly. At most and if they must be produced individually, they can be PDF'd like BA were, otherwise, the cults can go in their own book and the other five can go into their own book. Nine lists would be a bit much to try and squeeze into one book unless they plan to just do it as sublists which just ends up being the same as the old codex.

nurglespuss · 1 year ago

OK first off: That dreadnought EWWwwww! seriously, its all out of proportion, top heavy and the only bit that looks decently armoured is the legs. I'll be grabbing the arms and making my own methinks!

As for the Dark eldar, well the thing is they are still just a 'filler' race. I remember when they were released, and t was like, whoa, OK, we have elves in space why not dark elves? Similar storyline to warhammer, but with terrible models and very little fluff (oh and then have Jaghati Khan disapear fighting them).

Meh, I miss squats, they had a long and fruitful history in the GW ethos, and were superceded by dark eldar, which to me are unneccessary. It would have been much cleverer (or more eldary) to emphasise the confusion with which imperial forces view the eldar, to have had normal eldar models for 'dark eldar' but with different weaponry and a meaner look (and no flying market stalls), with the harlequins appearing in both armies to add to confusion.

But thats just my 2 cents worth.

Dajanitor · 1 year ago

Too top heavy? Oh yeah because the baneblade or even an imperialis isnt too heavy. And titans arent top heavy?
its a game, stop being so critical.

And the new claw arm looks just like the old one, but with better *fingers*
the seismic hammer is just like the arm, so i dont see how thats so heavy, or out of proportion. and two hunter-killer missiles ontop of the dread.....do they weigh 5 ton each? yeah not really...

nurglespuss · 1 year ago

'its a game stop being so critical' what has it being a game got to do with me not liking the model?

To my eye the model looks thrown together, not particularly well armoured, the arms don't suit, and yes to me dreadnoughts already look top heavy, which I like, but this model takes it too far. Its like one of those dreadnought conversions kids come up with.

So yes I don't like it (apart from leg armour) and I don't have to, its my game and I'll like what I like.

Miggidy_Mack · 1 year ago

Sir, this is the internet. This is where critical comes to grow into a news punditry.

FabricatorGeneral · 1 year ago

I agree. Top heavy and monstrous. The FW seige drill is much better looking. Of course, the gubbins coming out everywhere has always turned me off to the majority of AdMech conversions out there, so maybe it's aesthetic instead of truly bad looking.

Rottenbob · 1 year ago

40k has gone down hill since RT squats and zoats and pirate armies oh my the game has become AMERICANIZED! FAst convienant and disposable new rules rebuild your entire army do to the changes or go buy a new one come one its BUISNESS people they dont care they just want more MONEY!

Cpt Vineum · 1 year ago

Can' wait to see that Iranclad assembled!
Phil Kelly on Codex DE? Another uber xeno army on the way than :D

eLCee · 1 year ago

oh god no standalone codex please... anything but this... it din't work well with SM so screw up more "races" ?

Lord Cohrath · 1 year ago

amen...look at a the DA/BT/BA players screaming cause of SM codex. Chaos is frusterating but we have come to accept it. Leave it alone now.

beakie · 1 year ago

We would all appreciate Legion codexes, but I expect these to be WD articles/pdfs ala Blood Angels, not standalone releases.

I can't see them releasing a 60 page codex for Alpha Legion when they can barely scrape out 10 pages for BA.

Gothmog · 1 year ago

Commpletely agreed. Sure it would be nice to see some fluff on the CSM legions, but I still refer to my 3rd ed. codex for anything fluff or hobby related for BA.

Gothmog · 1 year ago

Agreed with the Dark Eldar. A second ed codedx and minis in 5th ed. Time to get updated.

But the CSM is bull untill they fix what is broken about SM.

The BA, DA, and BT (SW are getting their fix) are left in a limbo of inferiority with the 5th ed codex. From stuff I've seen, by BA assault squads are 25 pts more expensive (50 including the cost for the DC guy) and are the exact same thing.

The ONLY way that a CSM book for each chapter is feasible is the only way a SM book for all the chapters is really feasible- SUPPLEMENTS

They really need to go back to that, so everytime a new ed is released, they don't have to rewrite 7 codices, rather just one big rewrite and a FAQ for the supplements. It worked great in 3rd ed.

AND ON ANOTHER NOTE- What about the other CSM legions? As it stands now, you could make a good list out of the big 4 from the current codex, but what about Iron Warriors? Night Lords? Both very well defined fluffy armies that you can't really create under the nex codex. No basilisk. Night Lords should get masses of raptors. Stuff like that.

This once again has a solution- SUPPLEMENT

Supplements make it easy. All you have to do is make a fluff and hobby book with MINIMAL RULES. Most the work is done in the main book.

Gothmog · 1 year ago

Oh yeah, and then there is the other things yet to be done.
Finish the Inquisition Trifecta. When they started making those I got excited. Untill they stopped with Hereticus and left off the best branch.
Put out Planetstrike or what ever it is.

And All I see this Haralding is an excuse to go back and make a book for each craftworld. And before we know it, each Cept World is going to have its own book as well.

Havik110 · 1 year ago

Why would GW bother doing xeno hunters when they essentially put them in the new marine codex under a different name. One of the new veteran units.

faultie · 1 year ago

Agreed. Formerly, Death-Watch were the best-of-the-best, given the finest weaponry in all the Imperium, taken by Inquisitors and used to crush filthy xenos. Now, each Marine chapter has the same weapons (except the pathetically primitive BA, BT, and DA chapters). Why have a whole codex filled with Vanguard veterans (or is it sternguard?)

I think the best hope us Inquisitorial army players have is the possibility of a single Codex: Inquisition. Give all Inquisitors the same wargear and retinue choices, but change the troops, FA, Elites, and HS choies depending on which Inquisitor you take (or Brother-Captain, or Heroine, whatever).

A final vain hope (coming from a 2nd/3rd ed player) is a redo of the old CJ/WD Adeptus Arbites list.

Havik110 · 1 year ago

Right now Witch Hunters are in some of the best shape they have ever been
in. The Inquisitor lord with a full retinue in a land raider is a scary
thing.

faultie · 1 year ago

I guess let me clarify my statements. Right now, the Inquisitorial armies are fine. Large retinues, Vindicares firing into CC, lots of flamers and heavy flamers, and 10pts for each Immolator or Rhino to ignore cover saves with its bolter-weaponry (storm or heavy). Not a bad deal.

My main point is that I don't think we'll see 3 different Inquisitorial Codices in the future, but rather just a single one. Also, the DeathWatch list is kaput. It presents a unit that is more expensive and less capable than the new Veterans.

I wouldn't mind having the new fancy-shmancy Land Raider or StormShields, but that's a whole other discussion.

Eddie · 1 year ago

I personally love the current inquisitor codex's as they are. I use them for two of my armies, my adeptus custodes and my titan legion.

Rottenbob · 1 year ago

WH/DH were both lame additions honestly what about an OH army or SMH <orc hunters, space marine hunters> come on could u be a little more patheticly onesided when u think of WH/DH those two armies were built with no forsight at all just made to throw another bunch of models out there to be bought backed by as much so called fluff as they could muster behind.

Denzark · 1 year ago

CSM is tosh for single legion armies. If it ain't broke don't fix. What - if I am playing 1000pts now I have some generic daemon that looks like a bloodletter, but I have to play apoc or my WorldEaters can't summon them? So more legion love - I agree one codex cover the big four.

As for the Dark Elves, who cares - the miniatures and vehicles were awful (apart from the scantily clad bints on that guy who flew around on something they stole the idea for from Jabba the Hutt.

Squats would have been much better - how can they be branded a comedy race when Tau rips off manga robots and the Necrons have a lumionous plastic pipe more suitable to lego toys in their weapons, I'll never know.

Admiral Halsey · 1 year ago

*sighs* Before everyone complains about the dreadful chaos codex one more time, I would like to say, after some entertaining reading, that as bad as it is, in some respects it is far better than the new marine codex.

Seriously. Do the math. Compared honour guard. (Hardest of the hard) To CSM Terminators. Then do it again.

Ditto for the largely pointless command squads. (PNP, choosen with plasma guns. Max squad of 5 men? Yeah, find some expendable dudes in that lot.)

It's not all bad weather for you guys. I know the CSM codex died a fluffy death, and could of been better. (Seriously, even my fincee noticed, why not just give lesser deamons the option of taking marks? One little step and they are indefinatly more fluffy. Ditto for the greater deamons.)

TheInnerGeek · 1 year ago

Denzark,

I agree and disagree about the squats. They could make a come back as a comedy race for the exact reasons you mentioned... or they could be a totally cool race with unique armor and options that would be a breath of fresh air. And, don't get me started on the Tau... the Kroot should be the master species, they have been around since Rogue Trader. Now they are the lackeys of a bunch of anime cow-men. Tau-tipping anyone?

Denzark · 1 year ago

I fancy tau tipping. I've only played against them once, and was worried beacuase they were supposed to be shooty. Well after a dicey first tturn with rail guns zipping off my panzers the Basilisk and the Demolisher showed them what shooty really was, and the Ogryns and Vet Squad out of their Chimaeras finished them off.

faultie · 1 year ago

I just wish they'd update the Kroot Mercs list. If they did that, fixed the points cost of a Krootox (35 instead of 50pts), fixed the Kroothound statline (I5, not I4), and got rid of the eaters-of-the-dead rule from Codex: Tau (not in Tau Empire), and maybe give a different evolutionary adaptation system (ala the apocalypse formation) it would be quite a playable list. All infiltrating, 3+ cover in woods army. Hit armor in the rear?

In general, 5th ed is already better for the Kroot Mercs list. If they would tweak the list to the new stats (which most decent player will let you use anyway), it would be great. Change what they want, so long as they keep Anghor Prok as a special character.

TheInnerGeek · 1 year ago

Bring on the Iron Clad! I'm a bit of a Dreadnut anyway...

xnickbaranx · 1 year ago

People are missing the big picture as always. The Chaos Codex was stripped down to a basic level in anticipation of a future where we had legion specific codexes. Brimstone on Warseer alluded to it back before the C:CSM even came out.

Now that they have a generic C:CSM they can go back and flesh out various Legions and re-insert the depth into Chaos. Then, at the tail end of 5th Edition or the beginning of 6th, they re-do C:Undivided and flesh it out a little more, like they are doing with C:SM now.

People really need to get out of this "everything now" mentality and accept that GW will always do everything on a release cycle. The release cycle ensures that interest in the hobby is constantly maintained. The logic of having 5 Chaos Codexes allows them to constantly maintain excitement in the 2nd most popular army in the game, just like releasing a Space Marine army every year does that for THE most popular army.

Does this mean they'll do the same with Tau Septs, Ork Clans, etc? Absolutely not. Its about expanding the big money makers to make more money.

And I'm going to say it one more time - the reason C:SM is getting so many new goodies is that they needed to expand the range as it had reached the point where it had been COMPLETELY fleshed out. All we needed was the Drop Pod and Marines were essentially done.

abhinavjain · 1 year ago

AMEN!!!!

DarthCycle · 1 year ago

If they actually come out with a codex for the top 4 chaos legion, that would be awesome. It will bring additionnal diversity in the army list for CSM players, namely me ;)

albertsevil · 1 year ago

The Dreadnought just looks weird - i hope the rules for it are good.
The speeder looks cool though, i'll def get one for my scouts.

With the C-Legion codexs, i agree a decent list for any of the fallen legions/chapters can be made but they do lack fluff and variation. Plus loyalists seem to get a lot of cool new toys that we don't (thunder hammers + storm shields anyone?).

I think it most likely that they produce articles in the White Dwarf for adapting the fallen legions but I would rather they updated the actual CSM codex in the future. Maybe a few new toys and a page or two dedicated to each legion and some individual rules for them (e'g Death Guard termi's have FNP if taken with complete DG army. Or raptors can be troop choices for Night Lords). Oh and please can we give daemons Icons/Marks to liven things up?

Ben · 1 year ago

Phil's doing DE? That sucks! He has a history of not balancing his crap at all (see orks, eldar, tyranids).

UltramarineFan · 1 year ago

The orks are awsome
the tyranids are cool aswell
the eldar rarely see the battlefield at our store so i cant say about that

abhinavjain · 1 year ago

i play an eldar jetbike army and my jetbikes count as troops!!
i literally have 3 squadrons of 12 jetbikes zooming around killing everything and then moving back 6" in the assault phase to avoid combat!! they are T4 Sv3+.... basically S3 assault marines.... somewhat....

Slawson · 1 year ago

With a separate codex I might actually do a thousand sons army.

I love the look of the models but there's nothing to fill them out with currently since I can't stand any other chaos stuff.

totallymortal · 1 year ago

Oh, man.. I'd been wondering whether I should build my list with a venerable or ironclad dread. Wondering no more. That thing looks heavy.

wobin · 1 year ago

Give me Night Lords dammit :(. I don't think they'd get 9. Maybe two separate ones undivided and the four dedicated legions. It is time that Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers got some love imo. So much flavour in those legions.

Good new on the DE though!

WalksInTheDarkness · 1 year ago

I agree, it'd be great to see two different chaos codexes, one for the dedicated legions and ones for the undivided and traitor types (remember, the Night Lords don't necessarily serve any of the gods, they're just a nasty bunch of people!) I really don't need a codex for each specific god but one covering all four would be great.

Something along the lines of the Craftworld Eldar codex would be nice for the Space Marines too, just a few little changes to reflect the different specialisations and preferences like they made up for the Badab Campaign pack. Basically, an Index Astartes with maybe a new unit here or a change of FOC there. Just a little something to reflect the differences between the first and second founding chapters.

xsuicidekingx · 1 year ago

your second paragraph is EXACTLY what i was talking about. nothing huge. there doesn;t need to be a separate codex for each legion or for each craftworld. 1 codex could encompass all of those things.

faultie · 1 year ago

But, one codex only costs $25. Two of them cost twice as much! And so-on.

xsuicidekingx · 1 year ago

With the amount of money i spend on this hobby. I would gladly pay 25 extra dollars for some flavor.

faultie · 1 year ago

That's exactly my point.

abhinavjain · 1 year ago

alpha legion fluff got so much more intriguing and super f-ing kool with the Horus Heresy Legion book....

Imperial Commander: "Why are you doing this?"
Alpharius: "In the name of the Emperor."

xsuicidekingx · 1 year ago

Agreed. Fluff wise, I think Alpharius is one of the most amazing storylines for a primarch.

Rissan · 1 year ago

Was anything mentioned in the forums about the Lost the and Damned? In the fluff, they're the vast majority of the Chaos forces, but their list is hopelessly out of date.

Gringo · 1 year ago

I was at GD UK, i missed the seminar but got to chat to a few people who sat through.

From what i heard, the DE codex isn't an update. It'll be a complete re-working from the ground up. I think anyone who's posted saying that they are no longer viable should wait and see what GW kick out. There's no point tearing into it before anyone hhas seen/heard anything concrete. I knew at least one DE player who can still ''prod buttock' using the old codex, so it's not broken but they do need love.

Enjoy.

JadeTalon · 1 year ago

Maybe I'll get back into 40k after a long hiatus. My only two armies are:

Thousand Sons
Dark Eldar

Perhaps if fixed, GW can get some more of my money in 1-2 years?

WalksInTheDarkness · 1 year ago

No offence meant JadeTalon but GW doesn't care about your money. They care about the majority of their gamers not the minority. Most people play Space Marines, I doubt many players would argue that so they focus on their biggest cash cow first. Later on down the line when they've sorted out all of their other larger profit making armies they'll focus on the minorites. I don't like it very much, I'm a Thousand Sons fan myself, but it makes business sense.

Miggidy_Mack · 1 year ago

You know that only catering to the popular crowd is a business self fulfilling prophecy right? Now I understand why you would want to release a new codex for the majority of your players when a new edition comes out.. that makes sense.

It's the "Dark Eldar aren't popular enough" rule of thumb that is just retarded. Of course they aren't going to be popular when you make players weight 10 years for a new troop box. Same goes for the all metal inquisition armies.

Havik110 · 1 year ago

What codecs has Phil worked on besides Eldar and Orks? Not that I'm complaining, Orks is one of the best in the game. Eldar were written for 4th and so arent doing very well in 5th in my eyes. its hard to do well in 5th when you need a vehicle because your units aren't cheap enough to be a horde but aren't survivable enough to move across the table without being wiped out

philbrad · 1 year ago

I get the feeling 9 codices for Chaos is not going to happen. Although I could see Chaos powrrs being covered which would cover the 4 main power legions of course Codex Undivided for Night Lord, Iron Warriors, Alpah Legion etc... I could see happening.

Wanderer787 · 1 year ago

I'm diggin' the new Ironclad! Does anyone have any ideas yet as to how many points that bad boy soaks up? Also, if DAs, BAs, BTs and SWs get their own codices, why not give them to the big 4 of the Chaos Space Marines?

Khornatedemon · 1 year ago

He's 135 points base. Thats him with the 2 ccw's, a storm bolter and a meltagun. he can trade both guns for heavy flamers for 15 points total.

philbrad · 1 year ago

Chaos is not just the 'big 4' GW need to cover Undivided Legions as well, after all its Chaos 'Ultramarines' (Black Legion) are after all an Undivided Legion.

Miggidy_Mack · 1 year ago

Isn't the core book undivided legions?

Rahveel · 1 year ago

It really only represents Black legion, and renegades that have fallen to chaos more recently, or dont make the worshop of the gods a big facett of their lives.

Miggidy Mack · 1 year ago

Well I'm not sure if I agree with that. All the choas armies I've seen really work in a lot of "daemonic" elements.

UltramarineFan · 1 year ago

Well, they said they would release seperate codex' for the individual legions when the 4th ed C:CSM was out and now the rumours are comming back to the surface.
About time to!

Jamie · 1 year ago

Had a chat with the Marine Codex guy (Matt?) at GDUK and am still not convinced by all these special charcters in C:SM. I can't see why they have a system where you could change Combat Tactics with a chapter specific rule without the need to take Shrike, Pedro etc (just not fleet of foot on marines!)
And for the record he pretty much admitted they mucked up big time with Codex Dark Angels. No idea why they even need a codex, they have two units with a couple of special rules each - stick them in a WD or give them a few pages at the back of C:SM and be done with them

J · 1 year ago

personal I'd rather see codices for the 4 chaos legions they removed from he current codex, namely Night Lords, Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, and Word Bearers.

Miggidy_Mack · 1 year ago

It's funny, new codexes wouldn't really be necessary if they just put the allies rules in the daemon codex.

KingJoe88 · 1 year ago

This is great! I can't wait for the Dark Eldar. I would have started a DE army ages ago, but I can't quite bring myself to buy a 10 year old codex. The traitor legion codex sounds great too. If I ever see a Thousand Sons codex, Im not sure I could stop myself from buying it!

krayt · 1 year ago

I understand that the Ironclad Dreadnought is going to be a tough guy and I suppose I will also talk myself into using it in time but the way I see it at the moment it's just plain horrible... It looks like an overweight orangutan with these huge arms of his and the reactive-looking front armour... Now LandSpeeder Storm is a different story and I'll definitely want to include one or two in my army. Space Wolf Scouts from the rear, from the side and from the air. It's going to be quite an apocalypse!

Khornatedemon · 1 year ago

the front armor are assault launchers, like the ones on the crusader. They are optional. I do agree the new claw arm looks way big.

Xarius · 1 year ago

i think theyll do the legions as BA style dexs apart from possibly a proper one for the big 4, alpha legion for example would make a good download dex.

p.s. here is my youtube vid of gamesday, may have stuff youve not seen in it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTUgbK57xvE

vindur · 1 year ago

its 10 years old this october. and although i still like the codex i can see where people are coming from when their army gets next to no support

NeilBrimelow · 1 year ago

There is no reason why GW can't churn out codexes for all of the Chaos Chapters. If a bunch of guys can churn out something as awesome as the Macharian Crusade, then there is no reason why GW can't have a couple of guys working on all sorts of errata and sub-codexes. GW's problem is that they are short sighted in that they think that if they don't have the models to sell of characters (such as if they did small mini-codexes), then there is no point in releasing the codex. They ignore that good faith goes a long way in this hobby.

So what if they create awesome characters for a World Eaters Codex, and never release any of those models! It's easy now that GW is into the CAD/CAM world, they can just crank out some bitz/emblems and release them with each codex. Or even something simple, like a shoulder pad.

Augie · 1 year ago

Ehhh...I guess I must be the only one that does not like the ironclad. It looks...wrong somehow.

NoSuchMethod · 1 year ago

Really they should have just constructed the Chaos Legion rules using the Inquisition-esque allying system. Just nine mini chaos lists (ten if you want to include post-heresy renegades like corsairs) with minimal options and selections, but the ability to cross ally them in two or three list combinations with various restrictions.

There were only a few options in the old dex that were really abusive; If any of the writers had cared to, they could have visited any large tourney and had a list of specific fixes inside a day or two.

And no, I don't really think we're likely to see a full run of CSM codices. We'll probably see one or two (World Eaters and Death Guard) and then it will go the way of the Inq Codex series, the WHF codex series, etc etc., at which point it will be 6th or 7th edition time and then we'll just get a new Codex CSM.

Savark · 1 year ago

by the look of size of da speeder do guys reckon it'll only be able to operate with crew INSIDE? it's probably be what i s any way if it is open topped. sniper rifles moving and snipen whatever they see (Drools...) shame they don't hit on 2s any more....

Savark · 1 year ago

Does anyone know if there is a Gms day in Aussie?

Neoraven · 1 year ago

There used to be........but apparently it became too much of a hassle to organise for GW Australia (thats coming from the mouth of a Red Shirt in a melbourne store).

So now all we get is the golden daemon competition hosted in each store, with the finals held in Sydney.

Savark · 1 year ago

that jerk...
GOLDEN DEMON ONLY?!?!?! i can't even paint!!!

RobK · 10 months ago

It may just be me, but I would be fine with WD articles outlining rules for the Traitor Legions lists. I just don't think lists that sepcific shoud merit their own Codicies.

Another approach would be to do what was done in the SM Codex, and have the "flavor" armies key off of the appropriate CSM character - each character having a different way of influencing the army list:

A Berserker Champion that Gives Khorn Berserkers Scout USR.

A Noise Marine Lord that allows Noise Marines to nullify psychic powers (like they used to).

A Night Lord Champion that allows his troop units to Infiltrate (USR).

...and so on. This could easily be tackled in a few months of WD articles and some conversion tips for painting them up. We pay $9 an issue for the thing - it's about time they make good on their promise to make it a Hobby Support Mag again (as opposed to $9 worth of ads).