DISQUS

Internet Hate Machine · 10 months ago

Let me be the first to say that you are a powergaming cheesemonkey and you should stick to painting and photoshop because you obviously suck as a tactition, you megalomaniac powergamer you

Just to get that out of the way for the other apes soon to follow.

<3

Azzy · 10 months ago

Wow. That was productive and mature.

intellectawe · 10 months ago

It's called SARCASM. We learn that in our teenage years. Although some never seem to grasp it.

See also; tact and humor.

Azzy · 10 months ago

Considering the vitriol that has been spewed around here lately, it's sometimes difficult to parse the sarcasm from the verbal diarrhea.

Next time you bring up tact, you might want to try it yourself.

intellectawe · 10 months ago

Why? I couldn't care less about being tact with you.

There. No tact here. Just so you know.

Azzy · 10 months ago

I think the word you're looking for is "tactful". And thank you for *your* maturity. :P

intellectawe · 10 months ago

He was being sarcastic. And funny to boot!

Internet Hate Machine · 10 months ago

guess you haven't read the comments on the last few articles he put up? go ahead and catch up, I'll wait...

Azzy · 10 months ago

Yeah, I have. That's why I mistook your humor for more of the same. Mea culpa.

intellectawe · 10 months ago

Yup, it is your fault. Agreed. :)

Azzy · 10 months ago

Oooh, burn!!! You sure told me!!! Yer sooo kewl, you should b king of yer own internets.

lol

sodcactus · 10 months ago

Well, for anyone that read the last Goatboy comment thread it's fairly obvious it was irony, but yes, irony can be hard to convey on da Int-er-net

intellectawe · 10 months ago

Seems like decent advice for new/clueless veteran players though. This article seems to have a bit more meat to it than the previous debacle he spewed out. Goat's new at this, so I'll lay off the head bashing for a few months until he learns the ropes of playing and dispensing advice.

Bigred · 10 months ago

A note to all; I run Goatboy's threads like a bar. You can have a good time, get in some good natured ribbing, and generally feel free to vigorously get your points across.

But throw a chair or hit a lady, and your posts go down the memory hole.

Internet Hate Machine · 10 months ago

Throwing a chair is how 95% of all fights are started, according to Huey on The Boondocks

Sathos · 10 months ago

Did all the people using flamers on this thread simply sc roll down to the list he put up? Its not so much a powergaming list as one that proves a point... He stated the entire point was to bait the enemy with the Nob Bikerz...he then went on to say its a list he WOULD NOT play!

Read the actual topic before flaming the guy, I have seen him throw a few of these lists as examples and each time its benn a "This is how you could do it....but I wouldnt as it isnt fun" He even RECOMMENDS that if you see this list in your LGS then you SHOULD NOT play against it.

really people if you had an ounce of sense you would read the article properly first, then perhaps your manners would improve.

Moj · 10 months ago

I liked this article much more then the previous ones as it seemed to concentrate more on the tatic then the possible lists that may accompany it. its just a shame that in your picture aliens have shot gunk into your eyes and are now sucking your brains out through some tubes, i hope this doesn't effect the quality of any future article you do.

soylent robot · 10 months ago

You cant give a Warboss more than one Power Klaw.

That is all

MarcusZ · 10 months ago

the "X 2" applies to the whole warboss, not only its powerclaw ;)

soylent robot · 10 months ago

oh, so there's two of them? fair enough, and owch

BrotherWIll · 10 months ago

I dunno, I mean, I can throw a 2k Daemonhunter list that would eat this Ork list for lunch. For example, you got 480 pts invested in the Nob Biker mob. I can counter that with a 7 man GK Termie Squad with 2x Incinerators, Holy Relic, and Holocaust and still have a few points to spare. The Nob mob wouldnt last one round against the GK Termies. Seeing as you can drop this squad in any Imperial list, its even more useful. I'm also willijng to bet you can do the same with most lists out there. I have to agree with the others, your suggestions and tactics do need some more experience IMHO. Not trying to be inflamitory, just saying.

MarcusZ · 10 months ago

What exactly is "wrong" with the tactics? It's about baiting your opponent with either a cheap cannon fodder unit or a really threatening one (to distract your enemy from the rest of the army).

That is a _very_ good advice for any inexperienced player.

Maybe Goatboy's example lists aren't the best ones (I don't have the experience to tell), but his general advices are great.

It was the same with his last article: the advice was good, only the example list was screaming "powergaming" a bit too loud. ;)

BrotherWIll · 10 months ago

Well, for one, its a one trick pony. Sure, bait the new guy who has only played a couple games, but anybody who has played a couple games wont take bait. Oldest trick in the book.

Now, to truely master baiting (no pun intended), you have to force your opponent to take the bait. And that involves tactics similar to chess. Your opponent sees the bait, knows its bait, but must take it otherwise suffer dire consequences. Now that would be an intersting article and useful.

MarcusZ · 10 months ago

That on the other hand would no longer qualify as a "bait", but rather as a trap ;)

But that's only me nitpicking.

RealGenius · 10 months ago

I'm pretty sure you're not going to be able to teach that in a 1000 word blog post. :)

Veahirin · 10 months ago

LOL, when I read this I couldn't stop laughing... I know you inteded that pun ;)

LEGION3000 · 10 months ago

I do this all the time with necrons and a lord with the veil of darkness. Your opponent knows its there but pretty much HAS to charge the unit of warriors or be blasted to pieces rapid fire style. But then *poof* unit ports out and they still get blasted by the unit of immortals/destroyers/warriors behind them. It creates a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Darkwynn · 10 months ago

ROFL .... Grey Knights the most under performing army and you think those guys can take out a Nob biker squad ....


Sorry man you haven't played against nob bikers but I think you are forgetting they have two wounds or something. Your knights will die in one round. Do the math and you won't get a chance to lay down on the incinerators likely.

BrotherWIll · 10 months ago

Collectively, your Nobs have 14 wounds. The two incinerators will in all likelyhood be able to hit all 7 bases each, for a total of 14 wounds on a 3+ with no save allowed. Factoring in the FnP, gives us a total of 9 unsaveable wounds just from the incinerators. Reveal the relic, for a total of 25 S6 WS5 PW attacks at I4, BEFORE the Nobs get to fight, or simultaneously if the Nobs charge. That results in 8 wounds after factoring in invulnerable saves. Eight wounds that cant be saved by FnP. So, if the GKT get to hit first (and im not even counting if they actually charged), 17 wounds on average BEFORE the Nobs can even attack. And I havent even figured in Holocaust yet which is sure to net prolly 2 more wounds. Seeing as you only have 14 wounds to start, 17 on average sounds like Nobs go bye bye. Said it before, I'll say it again. DH should of been Xenos Hunters, they perform much better vs. Xenos than Chaos. Now, all the mathehammer on the table, that was a very Noobish claim you made about DH. Vets know that DH are an excellent list PLAYED PROPERLY, which 99% of peeps never take the time to bother figuring out. Also, just to give you benefit of the doubt, taking out the incinerators will still result in an average of 8 wounds (unsaveable FnP already figured). Thats 4 Nobs out of 7. Its irrelevant anyways, as I get my incinerator shots about 90% of the time. Its all about timing and tactics and knowing your list. As I said before. One trick pony. NEXT!

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

You shoot the grey hunters. That is it. You can't fleet, bikers have a range of 18 for shooting, not counting everything else in the army. Most people forget the shooting that can accompany the list. And yes, if all of that happens you can kill the bikerz. But if an ork player assault that unit, then they have already lost. You are using the nobz superior movement, to out run the opponent. And if you put 20+ wounds via shooting, you are taking out at least 2 termies, and maybe more. We can all theory hammer, but until you play the list, it is hard to say it is always going to be this one way. I put the list up, to warm new players from playing against it as well as to show a "cheesed" out list that you might see in a tournament.

BrotherWIll · 10 months ago

That would be true, if we were talking about Grey Hunters. Were talking about Grey KNIGHT Terminators. Obviously you've never assaulted GKTs before. GKT are probably the most lethal assault unit in the game, save perhaps Genestealers, but you can shoot the crap out of Genestealers easier than GKTs.

But you guys are missing the entire point of my posts. What I am saying is, if you sink that many points into a single unit and try the lame bait maneuver suggested, it will get destroyed by anyone whose played. Did it ever occur to you how many Lascannons an IG or SM list can put in 2k? No FnP for those, a 48" range, and instakills bases. How about how many Railguns in a Tau list? Or how many Bright/Dark Lances in an Eldar/Dark Eldar? Go ahead, take the advice. Its novice advice. Thats all Im saying. One trick pony.

Bulwark · 10 months ago

don't forget their 3+ cover save for going flat out. For 8 models, that 24 wounds to kill them all. thats 48 guard lascannons shots.
You probably will not get that many shots in the 1 turn before the assault you. And if you do put your entire army at his 1 squad, I think you have been successfully baited.

Darkwynn · 10 months ago

I was going to type it out but Wolf already beat me to it.

Your tactics and ideas are about as great as the way of the water BS.

MarcusZ · 10 months ago

8 wounds (in case the incinerators can't fire) makes 6 nobs alive, every single one of them with 1 wound left as far as I understand it, because of how wound allocation works on units of models that are all different. (Thanks to lord kroll for the explanation below, I just looked it up in the book and this really seems to be possible)

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

Actually all 7 would be alive, since the warboss would have 1 wound on them too. :).

CT · 10 months ago

Does ordnance give your above list trouble? How do you handle an army with multiple large blast templates?

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

Go flat out and hope you roll alright. They have one turn to shoot you, and then you are all up in their business.

CT · 10 months ago

Thanks for the response. One more scenario:

How does it perform against mobile marines(Ravenwing, White Scars, Black Templars/Chaos in Land Raiders)? What are your tactics when you face another mobile assault force that could possibly out number your own?

(Side note: I wonder if anyone out there is playing Raven Guard Assault Terminators; Thunder Hammers with Fleet - wouldn't that be weird?)

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

We have thought about it and might test it out later. I keep thinking fleeting termies, while funny is a truly scaring thing. Pop out of an LR, and bam we are in your face doing the dance of death heh.

Most of the time, other bike armies are at a disadvantage due to the fact nobz have 2 wounds. Also, most shooting, nobz get two saves, while the other other armies only get 1 and a bad roll can be really bad for them.

jwolf_bols · 10 months ago

GK Terminators are an excellent way to kill Nob Bikers. They also only get to fight the Nob Bikers if the Nobs choose to have the fight, as they are a lot slower. While there are conceivable scenarios where the GK Termies get the charge, very few opponents will arrange 7 large bike models in such a way as to allow all of them to be hit by anything less than a 10" Apoc plate. Even so, your numbers are off. Incinerators wound Nob Bikers on a 4, and FnP reduces the wounds to 1/2 of that, so you would do 3.5 unsaved wounds on the Nobs, not 9. The 10 Storm Bolters hit 7, wound 3, and make a total of 4 unsaved wounds. Since the Nobs would have to be in charge range for you to Incinerate them, you would get 29 attacks with the relic. 14.5 hit (all combatants are WS5), 10 wound, 7 get through. 11 total unsaved wounds makes 4 dead and 3 remaining Nobs with PK and a wound each. 3 GK Terminators die to the Klaws, and the 3 Nobs almost certainly run, win for the Grey Knights.

Now, let's do this the more likely way, with the Nobs getting the charge. We'll crowd your Terminators up for templates, just as in our previous assumption. 2 Skorchas hit 14, wound 10. Dakkaguns hit 9, and wound 6. 3 Terminators die before the charge, and there is 3/7 chance that one of those has the Relic. Assuming you still have the Relic, you get 13 attacks, 6.5 hits, 4 wounds - no dead Nobs. The Nobs get 16 attacks, 8 hits, 5 wounds at I4 S5, and 12 attacks, 6 hits, 5 wounds at I1 S9. Letting Holcaust hit all 7 (again, almost inconceivable, but we'll pretend it happens) means 3.5 wounds, one of which gets through, for a total of 5 Nob wounds. With a little luck, you have killed one Nob and lost all your Terminators.

I know math is hard, but if you're going to pretend to do math, then do it right.

Claiming that you get your Incinerator shots 90% of the time (before charging) is an indictment of your opponents, not a demonstration of your skill.

Havik110 · 10 months ago

very simple way to beat a nob biker list, Learn to Dark Eldar raider list. you have an invuln save when you turbo boost? thats nice, hows 8 lances from raiders and then 3 more from ravagers in your face? Its funny everyone seems to think that the bike list is unstoppable but the horde boys and lootas is what scares me. as a DE player I can't put together an RTT take all players list that will compete with that horde list(although players much better than me say it can be done)

LEGION3000 · 10 months ago

I pretty much don't know a DE player that can handle a horde list AND a heavy list with one list. When all the players are of a similar skill I doubt it can be done. DE are one of those armies that needs to be tailored to the scenario to be really effective or pick the raider list and hope to at least tie a hoard.

One thing to keep in mind, Hoard lists are often foot sloggers. So if you can fake out your opponent and redeploy to one side of the board, it is going to take your opponent a long time to get back into contact. Hopefully you can take out half his army before that happens.

GK4EVA · 10 months ago

Your termies wouldn't stand a chance. Not in a million years. The Nob Bikerz are teh winn. TEH WINN!

Anything but a "one"...

SQUISH!

BrotherWIll · 10 months ago

See above. Save the Noob comments for after you got pwnt by them.

MarcusZ · 10 months ago

Would anybody be so kind to elaborate this "annoying wound allocation" thing to me?

I don't know much about Ork equipment/rules and do not have a lot of 5th Ed. experience yet (too slow at building/painting armies to play :p). I do have a 5th Ed. rulebook though and know how wound allocation works. I guess I'm just lacking the experience to tell right away what's so annoying about those nob bikers?

thanks in advance!

lord kroll · 10 months ago

This is the rather clever trick of having every model in your unit of multi wound models different so they are treated as individuals when you take the pain. works like this...

say you have taken 4 ounds on your unit (which you fail to save / are power weapons etc),when allocating wounds for saving throws all models that are the same roll saves together & then take the failed wounds removing the maxmimum number of models, so, if you take a unit of 4 nob bikers that are all equipped the same & after taking 4 wounds you would lose 2 models.
But if they are all equipped differently then each one is treated seperate & rolls for 1 wound against it., if you fail them you end up with 4 nobs left on 1 wound each instead of 2 nobs on max wounds.
This means your units effectiveness last twice as long / they fdont take break check as no casulties etc.

It is a tactic I first saw used with Tyranid warrior broods given different weapon options & now is common with chaos terminators, chosen, orc nobs, etc.

MarcusZ · 10 months ago

Thanks for this detailed explanation!

I somehow forgot to think about models with multiple wounds. Just looked it up a moment ago and this really looks like a very cheesy way to avoid casualties...

xbruthamanx · 10 months ago

Unless i read the rule incorrectly. You get to allocate wounds to models with varying equipment... but then the total number of unsaved wounds are removed according to the "models with multiple wounds" rule. Lets say you allocate 4 PW hits across the unit. at the end of the combat, you still have 4 unsaved wounds. that means 4 dead of they all have 1 wound each, but it means 2 dead if they have 2 wounds each, 1 dead and 1 wound on 1 if they have 3 wounds each, etc. You can not have more than one multiple wound creature "hurt" in a squad.

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

Yes you can. They are separate units, just like having a unit with two ind characters. All can have one wound floating on them due to being a completely separate unit when resolving wounds towards them. This makes the unit, very very annoying to deal with.

xbruthamanx · 10 months ago

IC's have separate rules, and you can attach them to a unit. Are nobs considered IC's? I will have to go check the ork codex for some rule that makes that true. If they are just a bunch of individual characters they have to join a unit, otherwise they count as multiple combatants when in HTH. IC's cant join IC's to form a single unit. Well, unless the Ork codex says they can of course... well... I guess you sell the miniatures however you need to.
Otherwise, in a single unit with multiple wounds, like tyranid warriors, with an attached IC (Broodlord), warriors are removed as a whole model before they are all wounded even with a difference of weaponry. Any hits alloted to the IC that go unsaved are taken on the IC.

sodcactus · 10 months ago

Sorry, IC's CAN join IC's to form a unit. Please refer to p. 48 in the rules. IC's can't join MC's or Vehicles but pretty much everything else (if they don't come with a retinue of course)

jwolf_bols · 10 months ago

You read the rule incorrectly. The rule prevents spreading wounds among indentically armed models, which is not the case for the Nobs.

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

Yup yup, it is annoying. I thought the nerf on FNP (AP 1, 2 etc) would have made the army less annoying, but with the wound allocation it has become a very gross list.

xbruthamanx · 10 months ago

I will have to re-read the rule, I was under the impression that the models with multiple wounds rule was for every unit with multiple wounds, even if they are not armed the same. It is possible i am mixing 4th and 5th rules though.

jwolf_bols · 10 months ago

In 4e the "identically armed models" language was not used, so we ended up with the floating wounds concept that you're running with (also in 3e, but that's archaeology at this point). The change is clearly spelled out, so you've just got a little 4e hangover, no worries.

AdmiralHalsey · 10 months ago

So as long as we don't throw a chair or hit a lady, it's all good? *readies a knife to stab a guy* So long as we're clear...

Anyway, to the point of the comments section, the article.

I think what Goat boy is probably lacking is the opposite to the cheese. After laying all the horrible Nob biker, storm shields, landraider monolith mayhem on us, it basically drops off.

What I'd like to see is a 'From the other side...' Section, which gives everyone facing such horribly unsporting lists nice ways to counter them. Particularly nice ways to counter them which arn't horrible powergamey lists.

In fact, what I'd really like to see is a series of articles dedicated to making competative fluffy lists! (Which is what I basically spend my time with the hobby doing).

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

Fluff is a hard word to really define in this game, since you can create evil armies the fit the "fluff". Nob bikerz, while deadly, can easily be written into the fluff with two mini gangs who ride the stars killin and maimin. All plague marine death guard also fits the fluff as well, as all is nurgle and works for the great plague father.

Send me a list and I can go through it. I like the fluff of the hobby, I just also like to play competitively too.

AdmiralHalsey · 10 months ago

Ah, but that's not how a real fluffy list works. A real fluffy list is where one writes the concept of the list, then builds the list. IE, Imperial Guard Recon detachment, and then goes and builds the list.
It's not the same thing if you make the most broken list ever, and then throw the fluff in to supportive.
That sort of behavour leads to things like my Local GW Staff desperately trying to explain to me why my craftworld Eldar would have a baneblade in their apocalypse force. *shakes head slightly*

Daniel · 10 months ago

That is your idea of how a "real fluffy list" works. Doesn't make it everyone's idea. Besides, you can start off with the concept of a Plague Marine detachment and end up with the PM armies mentioned elsewhere. You can, as GoatBoy demonstrated, come up with the concept of a crazy Hellz Angelz Ork army where every ork rides a bike and is equipped different from the others (just like in the movies) with an appropriate name on the back of thier jackets.

Just because you put the egg before the chicken doesn't mean that you can't still hatch Birdzilla.

Veahirin · 10 months ago

Nice, Ork hellz angelz! If I didn't dislike orks so much I would probably do this list... Maybe Ill convert a few models just for a fun diorama!

-V

Easy_the_killer · 10 months ago

The last game I played was against the emperors finest. In that match I used my Great Unclean One as a bait. It worked very well. It droped down right in front of a Predator tank. The tank and 3 squads of marines used 2 rounds to get it down and only beacuse the command squad charged it.
I think it is a really good idea to juse a really threatening unit to get the eyes of your normal troops.

denzark · 10 months ago

Goatboy proves artistic minds can't be scientific at the same time. As someone once said, only steers and queers come from texas...

AdamHarry · 10 months ago

ya, and in the pic he's got horns...

GoadtheGoat · 10 months ago

Once again, the Goatman puts up the "I rode the little schoolbus" and "wore a hockey helmet, never played the sport" picture. Nice!

kahn265 · 10 months ago

Kudos on this article.

I'm interested in dissecting the psychological/tactical aspect of the game, as opposed to just creating the 'killer list' (I usually prefer to pick models based on how cool they look), and this is a nice foundation. I'd be interested in more articles along these lines.

Al · 10 months ago

This is a good article. The Ork Nobz biker list is one of the top tier lists on the tournament circuit. Do you use it in friendly FLGS games? That's a maybe. But if you are wanting to go to tournaments and be competitive - you probably need to know how to deal with it.

I like the idea of a series of articles reviewing the top tier army lists - along with a series of tactica on how to deal with them. At the end of it - maybe discuss an army that can deal with all of the armies you may face. That's the real trick. You can make an army to beat the Nobz bikers (the DH army is a good example above) but can that same army also deal with Mech Eldar? twin-lash Chaos? Space Marine Land Raider Spam? etc?

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

Right now I feel a lash chaos list is probably the best all around choice. It gives you some nice anti infantry in either noise marines or just in the basic tough to deal with marine. You have some nice tricks to pull units off objectives, as well as get the most out of our blast templates. The army can put a nice dent in nob bikerz, and depending on how the biker player plays, you can pretty much cut the ballz off before they get to you. Plus you can have lots and lots of melta too help versus LR spam.

lord kroll · 10 months ago

yesterday I watched a game between my youngest son with his new Orc army that he started at xmas against a friend of mine with his world eater army. My boy threw his warboss & 3 Nobs unit (was 5 to start with) at a Vindictor to detroy it with the warboss powerklaw & nob big choppas combo. This left my mates rhino containing Kharn & 7 beserkers the next in line for them & only thing left that could stop these from taking an objective. He therefore had to take the plunge & assault out of the rhino (as stationary).

needless to say the warboss & nobs were toast with the loss of 1 beserker only ( to Kharn), however on my sons next turn he shot at them with 2 20 strong boy units ( 3 bigg shootas & 1 rocket between them) the remains of a hard boy unit ( 5 + rockit) & 8 lootas getting 16 shots from their deffguns. after the smoke cleared just Kharn down to 2 wounds & 2 beserkers were left. he then assaulted them with the closest 20 strong boy unit & despite losing 3 to kharn hitting first & 3 not being in range, he wiped them out ( 52 attacks hitting & wounding on 4s, no problem) then went on to win the game.

i wouldn't say me boy intentionally set this up, he is only 10 & was actually just after the vindicator at first, but it goes to show even experienced players have no option but to take a big bait sometimes.
.

Chumbalaya · 10 months ago

Another good article Goatboy, any help people can get fighting the dreaded uber units is always appreciated.

One niggling issue regarding your Ork list, cybork bodies have to be bought for the whole unit or not at all as the wording leads me to believe.

These uber units are scary because people don't know how to fight them. They will usually run right over your typical assault or counter-assault unit and dominate the game. You have to have an uber unit all your own or a method of dealing with them.

Against Nob Bikers, S8+ templates are the way to go here. Vindicators and Demolishers are the best. 4+ or 3+ cover will be gotten, but every failed save removes a model wholesale. 1-2 Salvos and that unit is crippled.

Another way is to get lots of high S attacks in there that either swing first or last a while. TH/SS Termies spring to mind, as do tag-team Carnifexes. Sure the Bikers will maul your unit, but since the whole squad costs around 700 points it doesn't seem as bad.

For Termies, it's all about the volume of fire. 3+ invul or not, take enough saves and you will fail them.

GUO and Plague Marines go down to AP2 and lower weaponry to negate FNP.

It doesn't take a similary harsh list, it just takes a level head and sound tactics.

Parcival · 10 months ago

The Death Company is excellent for baiting opponents. =)

Nicholas_S · 10 months ago

Firstly; how many points is an average Nob Biker?

Secondly; I think the kings/queens/genderless-monarchs of the baiting tactic are the Tyranids.On one hand, you have swarms of bugs coming to overrun your position and crush you with sheer weight of numbers. On the other hand, you have huge monsters that can shrug off most anything you can throw at them before tearing through your battle lines. Too many things to focus on, but you can't afford to ignore any of them.

duder · 10 months ago

Immolator spam

Lots of wounds, no cover saves

bye bye nobz

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

They still have FNP as well as cybork armor. Unless it is AP2, they still get 2 saves.

Darkwynn · 10 months ago

better off just taking 20 sisters and just drop them with exorist and faith points.

rev · 10 months ago

It's true, 40k it's not about 'kill everyone' anymore. It's about to get know your objective and know whot to deal with it.
And yes, that NOBZ are definitely annoying (but I can certainly deal with my incubi squad with ease, bye bye nobz!)

Havik110 · 10 months ago

How big of a squad of incubi are you taking to go through that toughness...30 str 4 power weapon attacks is fun vs low toughness but they dont do as well with the boys (odds are that you will put down some of them if you got the charge)

I prefer to use 10 man wych squads with blasters and lances (generally the turn after they overboost) and raider squads kill nobs dead

rev · 10 months ago

9 Incubi + lord in raider (so yes it's max)
you forgot the rules for fearless unit (see morale section on 5th ed, subsection NO RETREAT!) , they get extra damage if they ever lose combat. I killed with average 24 boyz on charge in single combat. For nobz, I could kill all of them on single charge. And also incubi has WS 5 and 3+ armor saves.

docrailgun · 10 months ago

My opponents always, always, always shoot at my Death Company until they are dead... even though there are never more then 3-4 of them, and they are moving in front of 2 much more dangerous Furioso dreadnoughts.

duder · 10 months ago

they shoot your death company because they still have nightmares about the last time they got into assault (and could sweeping advance into another squad) lol

docrailgun · 10 months ago

Absolutely, and I'm very happy about this.

oldshatterhands · 10 months ago

Ugh, another post about powergaming accompanied by a powegaming list....still I have to say it's a step up from the last post about "redundancy" aka uber-unit spam.

mozza · 10 months ago

Engage your brain before spewing bollocks onto the site mate.
Goatboy clearly stated the list was something you might encounter in a highly competitive tourny. He specifically said he would'nt use it in friendly games.

There are some fluffy lists that are hard as nails, get over it. No list is invincible. I suggest you concentrate your peanut sized cranium on trying to come up with a list that is fluffy and reasonably competitive and sending it to Goatboy for some feedback. Show some respect to someone who posts useful stuff, instead of over critical verbal poo like yourself.

Al · 10 months ago

Absolutely - Nobz bikers won the Baltimore GT this year - as well as Chicago I believe. It's a top tier list that is played. You either know about it and come up with ways to deal with it - or you face it and get schooled by it. I'm personally enjoying these articles - as a tournament player myself. Maybe GB just needs to state - this is for tournament players.

Sheesh · 10 months ago

Abuse like this should be removed. "peanut sized cranium" "verbal poo"

Al · 10 months ago

Either learn how to deal with it - or it'll eat your lunch....

It's a legal list, powerful, and effective - people will play it.

I think it's beatable though...once a few of them drop - the leadership issues start popping up.....

Nothing funnier than the look on a Ork players face when his Nobs break and get run down in HTH - did that once - was hilarious!

bushidoredpanda · 10 months ago

In a couple years, when nob bikers have spread further than Austin and a couple of other places, people will see. The number of things that can "deal" with nob bikers I could count on one hand. Gray Knights, immolators, and incubi are not on the list. When the weaker environments catch up, we will see.

fade_74 · 10 months ago

I play infantry heavy IG.....why fight the nobs...when you can just delay em permanently. oh look...you killed a squad....oh look you killed a squad....oh look you killed a squad....oh look you killed a squad....blah blah blah yakety shmackety.....you had better love those nobs....cause they will be the only thing you have left on the table.

Al · 10 months ago

Good idea - but doesn't this hurt bad in a kill point mission?

Xas · 10 months ago

@nobbikers:

can someone tell me what is SO bad about it? half of the armies have good overall units that basically reduce each of this nobs to one wound that is wound on 2+ and has a 4+cover save (I'm talking vindicators, leman russ, carnifex barbed strangler, exorzist, krak missiles/lascanons.

yeah its allmost invincible against small arms (4+cover, 4+ FNP, t5 2wounds each,...) but its not like everyone is a noob and shoots bolters at landraiders...


the topic itself is good, easy to explain but hard to master. once you mastered bait, trap and counterbait you are god basically :D

biztheclown · 10 months ago

I really like the advice columns, but the list is crap. The Nob biker thing is so lame. Don't do it. There are ways to build non abusive nob biker units. People who field the "every model is different" crap should be drummed out of polite society.

mozza · 10 months ago

In the last c(K)odex? A Meks retinue HAD to ALL have a different weapon loadout, as it was decreed no self respecting mek would have the same wargear as his mate.

The fluff says all Nobs steal all the best wargear of smaller boyz. And are armed to the teeth with a wide variety of weird and wonderful weapons. The designers clearly knew what they were doing. Nobs are meant to be as tough as Terminators. In the fluff even normal boyz can rip a marine limb from limb if they get close enough.

Nobs are and should be hard as nails and armed with a wide variety of weapons, just as the designers intended. Dont like it? Tough, buy some Vindicators/plasmacannons/obital strikes/multimeltas/ccw termies/conversion beamers/thunderfire cannons/etc etc etc.

Just please, whatever you do, please STOP WHINGING YOU SOFT MINCEY 'UMIES!!!

squighound · 10 months ago

Every model being different in a unit is fine by me so long as the person I'm playing against actually knows their own unit, and can play at a suitable speed. None of this "Oh, hang on, which ones are left?... Oh I see, now let me roll for, oh no I forgot to.... Did I mention that the melted bit deformed birdpoo counts as an attack squig?... Did I fire the rokkit from kombi already?... no, hang on, I allocated wounds to the wrong guy..."

That sucks.

Diversity rocks.

ymmot · 10 months ago

battlecannons and earth shakers, thats how I would plan to counter this list.

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

It really depends on if they can get a turbo boost and get the 3+ cover save. Also, battle cannon wounds can always be thrown on the Warboss, thus they cant still roll a FNP since they are based toughness 5. But you are correct in that they can do a number on a ork list, if they are rolling bad, but hell everyone can lose if they roll bad right :).

Veahirin · 10 months ago

OK, so enough about the list... Lets talk abut the topic... bait and switch.

As an Eldar player you have to master this tactic. I have found through experience that there is one/two unit(s) that is (are) master (s) of bait and switch

Dire Avengers: Defend and Shimmer shield. Last night I played a buddy who ran a full squad of possesed and the DA took it on the chin. He couldn't ignore them because of the fear bladestorm brings. (Note: Turn one he killed one DA and I killed two possesed plus one for being fearless, not bad for a 'non-assaulty unit')

Warp Spiders: Withdraw,Same reason as DA, but less tough (though have better save) most opponents won't want to get hit by 22 st 6 shots even if it allows all saves. When you get charged withdraw to leave the enemy sitting with their $%& in their hands only to get shot to pieces. Be ready to sacrifice a few spiders to the cause.

With These two units most people (even veteran gamers) will charge them because they aren't 'close combat units.'

These units won't kill off an enemy though in CC just due to # of attacks, however I like to use Scorpions or an Avatar to come in a support the D.A. once they bog down the enemy...Then its just squishy.

With this tactic my Dire Avengers killed
- 10 possesed
- Daemon Prince
- 10 Marines with Khorne Icon

Not bad bait and switch I would say.

-V

P.S.- Please go easy on the theory hammer... I know you can kill then unit with other units, and I know it isn't a 'perfect' tactic... But I have won several tournaments on the back of these units with this strategy.
C&C welcome

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

I agree, both units have the chance to bait and switch with their superior movement, as well as abilities to hit and run and put out a punishing amount of shooting.

Veahirin · 10 months ago

The trick here was that they are too shooty to simply ignore and most people think they are soft in CC (Which is half true). But charging them is not the best of ideas, which works for me being so squishy and all

Eldar encourage trickiness, were too squishy to fight fair!

-V

jmanj · 10 months ago

One thing I would like commented on as someone else already asked, can some nobs be given cybork bodies while other don't? I think it is kind of up in the air based on the wording; however, Army Builder for example makes you take all or none for cybork bodies.

jwolf_bols · 10 months ago

Cybork is all or none. If Bigred would get around to giving me edit on GBs posts, I'd edit the list in the article to add Cybork where it is missing.

Darkwynn · 10 months ago

but if he did that John All hell would break loose !!

Sixsystems · 10 months ago

So much hostility... and to think that I was not any part of it! *sigh*

Reecius · 10 months ago

As usual I enjoyed the article, Goatboy, thanks for taking the time to write it up.

Its crazy to see the reactions on here, but let me stick some flowers in the guns everyone around here likes to wave around.

CHILL OUT. Its a game, everyone can play it however they want to. No one is wrong, its all a matter of perspective.

Some people, like me for one, enjoy a game against the hardest lists and the best players. Its more engaging that way. Some people don't and that is fine. I like fun thematic games too. Its just different ways to paly the game.

So, if you don't agree with the way people play or the opinions expressed in this article that is fine, but be civil about it. A "tough guy" on the internet is obviously a man with a small wee-wee in real life, and no one wants to make themself look like an angry, tiny wee-wee guy, right? Right!

Keep it up Goatboy, the articles are fun to read and can help people who like to play the game more competitively,

Reecius

Old Shatter Hands · 10 months ago

The voice of reason....please read the above comment.

mozza · 10 months ago

Terribly sorry, I made the mistake of thinking Goatboy stated precisely the above in the main article, how foolish of me.

People came on here berating the cheesy powergaming list when it wasnt the point. Read the article before you post, not hard is it?

OT- Baiting can be enhanced with certain armies by making particular units (works well with orks) stand out and look more nasty. I.e. converting your barebones warboss on bike to look like an absolute monster that cost a shed load of points because he's so huge. Likewise a Captain could be converted to be truescale and look far more dangerous than he really is. Easier to achieve with xenos but worth a try with most armies.

If something looks big and scary it makes people want to shoot it, if even at a subconsious level.

lukerev · 10 months ago

Personally, I have found nobs with gaz beat Nob bikers.

wkz · 10 months ago

"Shoot me because I am big" method of baiting?
...
How about "shoot me because I am Pretty (and impressive)"? There you go fluff/modelers! Make a <leader> who'd rival Forgeworld's Warboss on Bike model, and you instantly get your bait

bullymike · 10 months ago

one way to make your sentences flow better, is to stop putting commas in the middle of simple statements that don't need them. >:P

good article TP

GoatboyBBMA aka Thomas · 10 months ago

List is fixed. All have cybork armor as you can just have one guy with it etc. I also fixed the goof in the email address. Hooray copy and paste!

Hatchett · 10 months ago

You are such great fun. It's good to see lists like this, and makes me feel better about the way I structure my own: To Kill.
Why can't there be dudes like you within a thousand miles, gawwwwdammit?

Jakes · 10 months ago

You left out a Dark Eldar Archon with his Incubi