Bell of Lost Souls - Latest Comments in Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Lerra — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:34:46 -0000

I would argue that the balance in 40k isn't actually that bad. Even the worst codices do okay in tournaments - they don't take 1st place very often, but they will still win games against tournament lists at a pretty decent rate. At the last stage of the GT, I saw a Necron player get 27th out of 100 (the top Necron player), and people were using that as an example of how Necrons are terrible. I see it a bit differently. If a player using the worst codex manages to get into the last stage of the GT and also do pretty well (think of how many people he had to beat to get that far) the balance can't be THAT bad.

I play Dark Angels, which some people consider to be one of the underpowered codices right now (and I would agree), but it's still playable in a competitive setting, which is better than a lot of games.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Firaya — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:18:52 -0000

Wow, that's really lame. Even though I insist on playing to the best in any game, against players who are just learning or relearning the rules after a long break, I'd ask questions to help them.

"Do you know you can't assault after rapid firing?" Especially when it's obvious he wants to charge. "Why do you roll only one dice moving across terrain?" This would be a simple question in your case.

I won't point out strategies and such during a game, only rules reminders and such. After the game however, depending on the time I insist on discussing strategies or pointing out good/bad moves throughout the game. This is where I believe a newer player truly learns, as he will remember his strategic mistakes clearly and how to avoid them.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

lol — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:31:20 -0000

Do you know someone called Duncan by any chance? :P

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Norsehawk — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:57:49 -0000

Who do you think is driving that Vindicator?

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

DeathJester — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:51:46 -0000

Really? Say that too Dark Eldar players or Orks!

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

faultie — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:35:12 -0000

What do you mean you haven't got anything cheesy? You're playing Tau. You have Vespid! :P

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Fabio Bile — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:14:05 -0000

"sit back and shoot" apart from army building that's all what 40k really is.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

SinSynn — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:48:47 -0000

I play lots of pickup games, too. But even then, it's very rarely against a total stranger. Our community isn't so big that you'll end up playing against someone you've never seen before, ever. Even if you don't know the person, it's funny how you'll recognize his army!
I guess since I play Tau, no one ever calls my list 'cheesy' during a pickup game. It's not like I'm bringing a dual lash chaos list, y'know?

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Chaosgerbil — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:39:36 -0000

Good post, Goatboy. Here's a brief story about the least fun 40k game I have ever had, highlighting how important your points are.

He was playing a min-maxed, beardy three falcon holofield list during a 4th edition tournament. You should have heard the complaining when I finally managed to immobilize one falcon.

He was argumentative and bullying about rules, including changing what terrain counted as depending on the situation.

At the end of the game my opponent was still bitching about how lucky I was with my saves, because I still had one model left and he hadn't tabled me.

For him, winning was everything. For me, I was hating life and wondering why I had invested so much time and money in 40k. Fortunately my next two games were lots of fun since my opponents had heard of sportsmanship.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Bishop — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:04:38 -0000

I have to agree with Goatboy on this one. I am primarily an individual who got into the game 20 years ago because I enjoy the visual dynamics of the game, and the playing of the game is secondary. I will often play a less powerful list because it is more visually captivating.

At Adepticon this year, I had two polarly opposing incidents, back to back. I was playing in the Patrol mission, and came up against a Grey Knight player with my Necrons. First turn, he wiped out all but one of my Immortals in his first volley. He then was about to direct his fire against another group. I informed him of the Necron rules, and told him it would be smarter to wipe out the last Immortal, otherwise there was a 50% chance of each model returning next turn (it was my most expensive and premier unit). I did this in order to both teach him, and because he was a fun opponent and it was a fun game.

Next game I came across an Ork player who had a large squad of Nobs on bikes, with a Painboy with Feel No Pain and each figure had different gear so he could allocate hits as he saw fit. He tabled me by turn three. He then proceeded to tell me I was the best opponent he had played all day (this was the last game of the day) as I "almost" killed ONE of his Nobs (no one else had come close to killing any of the Nobs). Well, this just wasn't fun at all, heck, it wasn't even challenging for him.

This is a GAME!!! If it isn't fun for both participants, we might as well spend our hard earned money elsewhere.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Rich — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:54:37 -0000

Someday Goatboy I think I would like to play a game against you. I always thought from your post-article comments in previous articles that this was how you played the game. Nice to see I was right.

I think the best games of 40k I have played are where every gain is paid for in blood and win or lose your opponent and you feel like you've both been wrung through the mill getting there.

Any monkey can engineer or copy a "killer list" and crush their opponent without mercy. Knowing when and how much to "turn it on" and your opponent always feeling like they have had a good game no matter what happens, that is the mark of a great player!

Hat off to you sir, a good article!

Rich

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Black — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:02:03 -0000

This has to be the first post you've ever written that doesn't suck. Tournaments are one thing (As you point out), and playing a game is just that - playing a game.

If more people figured this out, the world would be a better place.

Good post GB.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

mexican — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:18:35 -0000

Great article! Always getting better too.

It reminded me of my first game. I had built my IG to 1200 points and had a a foot slogging Catachan Army that was backed by a vindicare assassin. I bought all the models that looked cool at the time to me. I was playing on a 6x4 board against an Iron Warriors player who had a basilsk and insisted we play long ways. It was 6 turns of being blasted away. lucky for me anything I did finally get in range of died to his horrible armour saving rolls. I'm convinced it was karma for being such a jerk to a new player.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Dr Henry Killinger — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:52:47 -0000

In every battle I play, I try my best to get my Chaos Lord into combat with my opponents leader. This isn't always a smart thing to do. I play Khorne, which I feel is more suited to carving through infantry than taking on characters, so I tend to be worse-off going up against some of the more hardcore leader models around (two that come to mind being a jetbike-borne Archon and a Canoness with a Jump Pack and 2+ Invulnerable save). Still, the idea of my Lord facing off against his opposite number is too good to resist. One game recently, my opponant and I made some questionable movements to ensure that our leaders made it into combat with eachother for the final turn of the game.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

B_Steele — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:46:18 -0000

Goatboy, this article single-handedly changed my otherwise negative views upon the guys behind the scenes at BoLS.

I tip my hat to you, sir.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Gringo — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:33:40 -0000

One of my regular opponents and I regularly play power armies to try and out-beard each other.

Our battles have seen all sorts of attrocities commited against 'The Spirit of the Game', but i wouldn't dare field one of those armies against an unwitting opponent. It just wouldn't be fun.

Against anyone other than this guy and i'd take a sensible, fairly balanced list and be happy to take on all-comers with the assumption that whoever they are, they're going into the game with the same mindset.

I don't see anything wrong with power gaming as long as your opponent is planning the same. If someone sneaks up on me with an uber-list and doesn't see anything wrong with it, they're only going to play me the once.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

jon — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:27:37 -0000

I'm a bit of noob to 40k,(about 8 months) but a fantasy vet, competative play has completely ruined fantasy if you don't have one of the lastest four books (DoC, VC, LM, DE) -(WoC aren't that bad) - you just can't compete! It has really taken fun out of the game.

I play IG and I love my troops!
I've only had one boring 40k game to-date, and the opponent did the silly blood angels drop pod thing. It was just a boring game. However I believe that 40k is a much more balanced game, and much more fun then fantasy (atm)

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

jon — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:20:59 -0000

Not to down play your victory

You played against greenskins- they have one of the worst fantasy book at the moment!

The newer book are much, much easier to win with.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

Dr Henry Killinger — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:19:58 -0000

I did a similar thing once. I had my Chaos Marines in store and went up against a kid who wanted to try out his new Tyranids. It was a six hundred point battle. I purposefully deployed badly (squads far appart) and sent my Chaos Lord off on his own down the middle of the table. Despite this, I still wiped out his army for the loss of only a single marine. I felt terrible, but we all agreed afterward that his army composition made it difficult for him to win.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

TheDude — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:13:01 -0000

Epic is designed for 'soft' or scenario play too, the rulebook makes it clear that the 'tournament' style is only one of many ways to play the game.

But the 'tournament' style game is indeed really balanced across all the army lists and list styles available, unlike Warhammer 40,000 which is only really balanced when played 'soft'.

*playing the game well* is the most important factor in winning in a competative game of Epic, not *writing your army list well*.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

RexScarlet — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:10:04 -0000

Exactly, see my "cold war" comparison above...

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

TheDude — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:08:40 -0000

Yeah, and real fun for the fish (you opponent).

TheRealChris' comment below makes a lot of sense.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

TheDude — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:04:12 -0000

Oops I meant to reply to TheRealChris above, not post a new comment.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

RealGenius — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:02:56 -0000

Douche of the Year nominee?

Oh, here, use these Land Raiders. But I'm not going to help you learn or play better or anything like that.

Well, good for him-- now you know who to avoid next time. Picking the right opponent is a very important part of the hobby when you are playing pick-up/friendly games.

Re: Goatboy's 40k Thoughts: Lets have Fun Dangit!

TheDude — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:01:43 -0000

Agreed, Epic does actually stand up to a competative / tournament-style approach (although it can be played 'soft' too) in a way that makes Warhammer 40,000 look like a complete mess.

Warhammer 40,000 isn't designed to withstand competative play, it's designed to be loosely balanced at best, and played by kids 11-14.