1 - Iyanden Eldar - 3 Massacres. 2 - Mech Orcs - 2 Massacres,1 Minor Loss. 2 - Mech SM - 2 Massacres, 1 Massacre Loss.
The Orcs had Ghaz, 2 BW, Nobs, KFF, Lootas, Kill Kans and lotsa boys. Typical Orc Lists.
The SM player had 3 LR, 2 Terminator units, 1 SS/TH, 1 Shooty, + Lysander.
The Iyanden (Me), has Eldrad, Yriel, 2 Full Size Wraithguard units with Conceal, 10 Pathfinders, 10 DA with Bladestorm in a Wave-Serpent, 5 Warp SPyders, 2 Wraithlords with EML and Bright Lance, 3 Dark Reaper with Tempest Launcher + Crack Shot.
Greg
· 4 months ago
"...and making jokes about the name of the tournament for me."
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one. :D
Kirasu
· 4 months ago
Yeah mech is what is powerful at the moment.. Thats why I firmly believe eldar are still pretty top tier because they can dominate mech armies pretty well if they build for it
Seer councils can spread out and assault 3 tanks at once and only need 2 hits to kill it most likely.. Or surround the vehicle and then blow it up
RealGenius
· 4 months ago
Yeah, nothing like 30+ S9 attacks on the charge hitting rear armor for dealing with squadrons of tanks.
KellyJ
· 4 months ago
Our top player ran Orks...litteraly. 225+ Orks on foot slogging across the table. He pulled 2 massacres and a minor victory (against me). We played the second mission and I won the roll for deployment. Put a small squad of Marines in the center to force him on the back board edge. My error was I should have combat squaded 10 marines and put 5 Marines at each of the 2x2 points of the table and an HQ dead center. This would have forced him to put everything but the Kommandos (who came in later on the flanks) and the Storm Boys on that 6" edge. He either bunches everything into template-hell or he loses units since they have no room to come on. Anyways you just can't kill enough before hidden Klaws start shredding RA10 vehicles and the kill points start racking up. Thats the problem with sacrificing you vehicles as speed bumps in this particular tourney...The kill point your giving away counts towards the level of victory.
Myu
· 4 months ago
Hooray for orks! Nice to see a non-mech army winning out there, variety is always good.
The main reason I play mech myself though, is almost purely because of ordinance.
BuFFo
· 4 months ago
Mission 1 - Versus Space Marines. Tabled on turn 6. Massacred, 24 points.
Mission 2 - Versus Space Marines. Massacred, 23 points.
totally agree when you said "bullshit" in the same sentence with lash - unless you're Slaaneshi themed, lash just makes you 'one of those' chaos players…
bebibejita
· 4 months ago
complaining about lash at hard boys? "one of those" chaos players?
So were you free points to anyone you played or did you not even bother showing up?
KINGS
· 4 months ago
I don’t know who you were talking to bedjita but I was not complaining about lash and oblits, I just get tired of seeing “that” army. I have played against that same army build multiple times, played by multiple different people in my gaming group.
This subject has been exhausted on this Blog but there are just some armies that keep coming up that I am just tired of playing against. These army lists are very obviously good on paper but don’t require much skill to dream up or use. Ard Boyz is an opportunity to abuse all the different army lists, and for that reason I am not a fan of the tournament (even though I placed this year).
Personally I took a fairly hard army, but one I knew would be fun to play with, and since I do not have fun playing against Lash and Oblits I figured I would not have fun playing with them either.
~kings
bebibejita
· 4 months ago
talking to Ahriman
RealGenius
· 4 months ago
I played against two CSM armies and neither had Lash. I was surprised. Of course I did face 18 Obiliterators, but it is Ard Boyz.
BuFFo
· 4 months ago
18 oblits? Thats not even possible.
KINGS
· 4 months ago
18 oblits between 2 games...
At our FLAGS (battle forge games in Austin) we do “hobby and heavy” tournaments. At one tournament, in three games, I faced 21 Oblits 5 Lash Princes Abodon Ouch!
~kings
RealGenius
· 4 months ago
Right, Kings, over 2 games-- obviously 18 is too many for one army.
LOL
· 4 months ago
Nicely done Goatboy!
You know who this is. ;)
Brent
· 4 months ago
I suspect we all do...
Fixer
· 4 months ago
You forgot another reason to go Mech.
Lash of Submission. 90% of chaos armies you face in tournaments will have twin lash princes. A single lash against one of your units can lose you the game, be it having an elite unit pulled out of cover to be plasma cannoned, vindicatored or assaulted, or having your scoring units pulled off of objectives in the closing turns.
You can lash an assault marine unit but not a squad of scouts in a storm. You can lash a combat squad off a loot counter, but not a combat squad hiding in a metal box.
sodcactus
· 4 months ago
"Anything that lets you reroll your misses is great. As we all know, when hitting a moving vehicle, you are basically hitting like a blind ork (terribly), so we need to find ways to either help get the most chances to win with a 6"
What ability gives you a reroll in CC vs vehicles? It's not preferred enemy at least :-) Is that some army-specific ability 'cause I've never heard of it?
Sathos
· 4 months ago
Lost of independant characters have either wargear or simple abilities that allow you to reroll in melee (or shooting, depends what character) given that many such characters carry or can carry vehicle splitting gear they can often be your best anti vehicle unit in combat.
Its a common use for my various Ork warbosses, often with a meganob retinue if I take a megaboss. Thats a lotta power klaws (read powerfists if you dont know orks).
sodcactus
· 4 months ago
Ahhh, wargear... Means my Nids are screwed anyway.
I've seen quite a few abilities to allow rerolls for shooting but not vey many for rerolling hits in CC. Also, since CC against vehicles uses it's own table I would take that discussion before I claim a reroll against a vehicle.
Goatboy
· 4 months ago
Feeder Tendrils allow you to reroll misses too I thought. Can't find my codex.
Dave
· 4 months ago
Only against opponents with a WS if i recall correctly, either that or it's not against anything with an AV, either way it's a no against tanks
sodcactus
· 4 months ago
Only against opponents with WS. It's explicitly stated in the BRB p.75 (Preferred Enemy USR). But i'ts nice for my Templars when they get stuck in combat against Dreads. Their Krak-attacks I can reroll :-)
RealGenius
· 4 months ago
If you bought Krak grenades. They don't get them as standard equipment like their Vanilla Brethren. (sad panda face)
Sathos
· 4 months ago
Uusally the wording on the reroll is "May reroll any failed to hit rolls in close combat" or similar so there isnt any discussion...its only "reroll failed to wound" rolls I could see even coming close to debate :)
Drew_Da_Destroya
· 4 months ago
What Warboss gear allows for rerolls? Are you playing with some Kustom rulez?
Sathos
· 4 months ago
I didnt mention a reroll, I added the attack squig off the top of my head as an example instead ;) as an extra dice can be just as good as getting an extra hit on a reroll :)
shelor007
· 4 months ago
I realize this is off topic, but as I was looking at the picture of the Valkyrie you attached to the article, I had a vision of it falling over.
That is a really small base, and a very tall post the model is resting on. Isn't that model *way* too unstable to use in a gaming environment? (clumsy arms, unsupervised game store kids, etc.) That model is coming down to earth in a bad way all too soon.
Anyone have any ideas about how to keep their Valkyries safe? I was planning to leave the base and post unused, but I expect to run into the "gotta use the base it came with" crowd.
Kalel
· 4 months ago
When i first built and started playing with my shiny new Valkyrie I had problems with the stand being knocked over i ended up taking a clay mold of the base and then filling the mold full of molten lead then pinning and gluing the lead to the base so that it is less top heavy
it has actually helped as I have not had anyone knock it over even though I have had a few people hit it by accident...that and it makes a great weapon against zombies
Goatboy
· 4 months ago
If you put it slightly to the back in the middile, it fits pretty well. Luckily the actual model isn't too heavy, so it sits pretty well. Of course if you hit the damned thing it will fall over haha, but just normal movement and playing will keep it on its base.
A few washers at the bottom will help too if you are worried.
crazyredpraetorian
· 4 months ago
I have repaired my Valkyrie 7 times now. Repairs are a fact of life with that model. It's hard to transport and hard to play around. But, I love the model and it's rules. I glued mine with super glue so that breaks are fairly clean when they happen.....and they will happen.
Tariq_Jakobsen
· 4 months ago
Hi Goatboy, Congratulations with your marriage!
vutall
· 4 months ago
We had speed freak orks come in third,, Wytches Dark Eldar come in second (It was bad, his entire army was in transports. 20+ dark lances and just blah), and Tyranids in first..
I played both the orks and the Dark Eldar. Both were great fun, though the ork game upset me a bit since 1 troop choice took 3 objectives. (Darn 30 man squad being about to spread out on the board and still be in cohesion.)
Vampire Harlequin
· 4 months ago
From the comments it sounds like the mech build is becoming more common, but isn't by any means the be all and end all of meta-gaming by any stretch. Sounds like a lot of armies can be tailored to eat mech for breakfast and poop out scrap iron (On second thoughts, that sounds more harmful and embarrasing for the player doing the eating...) Anyhoo, It doesn't seem like that many people consider it cheesy power-gaming, soI think I can run my fully mechanised, transport-heavy IG without being considered too beardy I hope. And my three hydras should really help me tip the scales against any other player who has the same ideas! But just a thought...could we see a back-lash against the transporter-spam? Maybe a rise in pure-foot slogging hordes, or armies composed of really tough-ass elites and mega-tooled up troops?
The Daemons guy got lucky as the top players were pairing against each other and getting decisive victories rather than the usual ties or minor victories. Outside of 1 Tyranid and 2 foot Eldar, everything there was mech... it was a field day for my Fire Dragons.
Russ
· 4 months ago
At our store it was:
1. Chaos SM 2. Chaos SM 3. Nids (Me. Massacre, Tie, Minor)
There wasn't a single IG army at the tourney. The Chaos SM's I played were either Plague Marines, or Plagues with Khorne Marines. There were a total of 4 Nid players, 3 of which were in the top 6 finishers. I agree that dealing with lots of tanks is a definate problem for the Nid players, I did manage to pick up a fair number of kill points by killing off rhinos though.
Grotmaster
· 4 months ago
Our LGS had about a dozen or so, mostly Mech, a lot of triple Land Raiders. I was the only crazy mate to bring three Battlewagons. With Deffrollas. Did pretty well and placed third!
1. Orks (Walker Heavy/Hordy with a side of Battlewagon) 2. SM (Drop Poddy/Land Raider flavored) 3. Orks (Triple Battlewagon/Triple Nobs)
Yes, "Hard Boys" just makes me think of an adult film with an all male cast.
I didn't get to play this weekend, but I did observe a bit (I think that makes me unbiased, since I'm not bitter about losing, etc). What I saw discouraged me. The tournament scene is all too reminiscent of something that you Austinites are probably familiar with. It's the GW equivalent of the BCS in college football. It's a "win pretty" competition, and there's no strength of schedule calculation.
Our local store winner was a Dark Eldar player, who benefitted tremendously by playing two opponents in his first games who didn't know anything about the army. He racked up every possible point, and by then was so far ahead of everyone that it was nearly mathematically impossible to lose, no matter what happened in the third game. Running up the score counts, ladies and gentlemen.
The problem is, while that DE player is good, he's not head and shoulders above the other players in the tournament. His score does not reflect that. Unfortunately, there's not a head-to-head battle at the end to determine the winner. It's all score based. It's not enough to win, you've got to win big. That means that there's a huge advantage to getting paired up opposite a newb who doesn't know what he's doing. Many of the local veterans can beat the Dark Eldar player, but he never had to play any of them.
Unfortunately, this tournament method leads to building all-or-nothing armies. It makes a game environment where a comfortable win is the same as a loss. Anything short of a massacre means that you're falling behind the guy who got the easy draw. This pushes us towards armies that can achieve those massive victories, at the expense of perhaps not being able to beat certain armies. It leads to 7 Land Raider lists and other super-specialized armies. Those armies don't win consistently in week-to-week play, because they are too easy to counter. But with Ard Boyz, all you have to do is get two opponents who aren't prepared for it, and you can get a huge score advantage.
So, the lesson is, bring an army that can beat Baylor 900 to 0. Those points count the exact same as the points you'll score later against UT. In the end, we just add up the number of points someone scores and declare the one with the most the winner.
What they should do, play winners versus winners, and weight the points earned in the later games more heavily than the ones scored in the first games. So points earned in a game against a scrub in round one will only count for half as much as points earned in round two (against someone who won their round one game). Then, those points would only be worth half as much as the ponits you earn in round three, against someone who has won their previous two games. Match people up that way, and you should be able to avoid having someone who annihilates his first opponents and then has too big a lead to overcome.
joshuadearth
· 4 months ago
If you don't mind where did you observe your games? I am curious as I rather saw the same situation in WA. Thanks.
RealGenius
· 4 months ago
At BFG in Austin I think all but a handful of games in the first and second round were lopsided massacres and that was with a random first round and then pairing highest scorers for the following rounds.
SoonerBrian
· 4 months ago
I play in Oklahoma City. I figure it's the same at a lot of stores.
SoonerBrian
· 4 months ago
Oh, our top three were #1) Dark Eldar, #2) Doublewing, #3) Mech Eldar w/ Eldrad and Yriel
Russ
· 4 months ago
I will admit I've seen the same thing happen. I'm also curious where you were observing.
At the tournament I was at, this wasn't quite the case. The first round seemed to be a random draw. the second round the top scores were playing against the top scores. In the second round it was 1 v 2, 3 v 4, and so on. The thrid round was a bit different, it was 1 v 4, 2 v 3, 5 v 6. The theory that was stated was that it gives a better chance of getting into the top 3 if you were 4, 5, or 6. Not too sure about that. However, the net result of this was that no one scored over 60 points. I took 3rd with 46 points, which from the scores I've seen posted, I wouldn't have enough points to qualify. I believe that 2 massacres was the best that anyone posted on the day. I played the #1 player in the 3rd round, (Nid vs. CSM) and barely managed a minor victory. However, it was just enough to move me up one place, and moved him down to #2.
I'm not sure about weighting the points in the later rounds, but I completely agree that the players witht he better scores should be playing in the later rounds.
demosthenes
· 4 months ago
In Austin we always have random draws for round 1, and then pair 1v2, 3v4, 5v6, etc for both round 2 and 3, so you always have top players up against top players (aside from round one when we don't know).
BuFFo
· 4 months ago
First off, this is 'Ard Boyz, and its a win at all cost tourney. If you are a soft hearted player, you don't belong in the tourney at all.
At my lgs, winners did fight winners. For the third game I was in 1st while my opponent was in 2nd. The judge advised my opponent to play to win because he announced that he was going to just get lazy for his easy 2nd place finish.
I got 22 points and he got 0.
He got bumped down to 4th place.
Second, don't blame the tournament. It is just a collection of ink on paper. If your local game store didn't pit winners versus winners, then blame the organizer. That is squarely his fault for faulty pairings.
I play dark eldar, and the guy I played in my first game got tabled. He was so pissed he dropped out of the tourney, declared he was leaving 40k (I doubt it) and cried about how over powered my 11 year old codex was. Whatever lol. Cry to your mother. Next time join a tourney with sportsmanship and comp scores you can abuse to make yourself feel better. lol.
SoonerBrian
· 4 months ago
To be clear, our organizer DID group winners versus winners. I just wanted to include that because I wasn't sure how they grouped at other locations.
I have no problems with people bringing killer lists -- I can say that I've never been accused of being a soft hearted player. :) My concern is that in the last two Ard Boyz tournaments we've seen a player take first and somehow manage to avoid playing anyone decent until the last game. And I've seen frustrated players (who managed to win every game they played) sit and say "But I would stomp this guy's list..."
So, seeing this two years in a row, I think there's an inherent flaw in the way they calculate points. It's too easy to build a huge lead early against a player who might play one game every six months. And that's a problem.
Daniel
· 4 months ago
The problem is 3 rounds is not enough to get a true result based on swiss style pairings. If they made it a 2 day 6 round event then I think you'd see vindication for the guy who consistently majors-but-never-massacres people. And it would minimize the impact of a player massacring his first round scrub opponent and being able to coast his later rounds and still get top 3.
BuFFo
· 4 months ago
Cool, I understand you know.
Lerra
· 4 months ago
My area is very heavy on mech marines and we have a lot of old school IG players who have returned to their armies since the new codex. Everyone was running a TON of anti-tank.
The winner in our area was playing a chaos daemons list (Khorne with a splash of Nurgle and Fateweaver). All of that anti-tank meant nothing to him - everything was immune to instant death and low AP meant nothing. All those lascannons were just wasted points, for the most part.
I can see Daemons becoming a stronger option as more people gear heavily towards anti-mech.
lordazaneal
· 4 months ago
In clarksville TN 1st Necron airforce 2nd eldar warwalker with scatter laser horde 3 tyranid nidzilla 24 entrants i got 9th useing worldeater chaos marines got butchered by the 2nd place eldar guy in 3rd game
(
zenpaladin
· 4 months ago
Necron Airforce?
What the guy had 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy D's?
I'm blown away a Necron force made 1 in any tourny.
Ej
· 4 months ago
Last year's grand champion was a Necron player.
BuFFo
· 4 months ago
No, it was a Deamon Player. Its even up on the page where you find the 'Ard Boyz rules on GW's site.
lordazaneal
· 4 months ago
C tan as hq max destroyers and hvy destroyers rest points in warior squads
Sergent Zimm
· 4 months ago
I placed second with a fateweaver build. I played two Vulcan lists and a IG mech list. I tabled the IG mech list. the mech lists are great and damn they can put out a lot of firepower. The problem for him was that my drops on turn one went fantastic and my whole 1st wave was within 6" of fateweaver.
One thing with all the mech lists is that the craters are hard to deal with. Very few people actually have the amount of craters required. By the end of the game we were so confused about where the craters were cause he didnt have any with him.
Mech is definitely the way of the future, but luckily its not the end all be all, as there are ways to deal with it.
sodcactus
· 4 months ago
Hehe, that was fun, your comment about needing enough craters. If Mech IG gets hold at the club maybe I should try to tip them off to buy more craters.... :-)
BuFFo
· 4 months ago
Or tell your club to get more craters.
You know you can just leave the vehicle there, and use it as a crater right?
It doesn't block line of sight and then you'll be fine.
Sergent Zimm
· 4 months ago
Yeah at the end of the game there were like 8 or 9 vehicles that I had killed on a 6. It was crazy.
luculluslegio
· 4 months ago
Yeah I think I am going to make a bunch of rhino and drop pod shaped craters to take with me from now on.
nojinx
· 4 months ago
In the San Francisco Bay Area: full house of twenty-four players 1. mech eldar (fire prisms/wave serpents) 2. orks w/ nob bikers, deffkoptas and Ghazgull 3. chaos w/ two DPs
Fuegan17
· 4 months ago
hey, I think those orks were me. Game Kastle location right?
nojinx
· 4 months ago
Yup, that's the one. You tabled a good friend of mine in the first round (SM player). Nice work, and good luck in Sacramento!
Vince
· 4 months ago
I took basically the cheese chaos list. 1 lash prince, 1 lash sorc, 3 terminators, squad of chosen, 1 berserker, 3 plague, 1 landraider, 9 obliterators.
BuFFo
· 4 months ago
That isn't so bad.
Charles Magurean
· 4 months ago
Our three from Myth Adventures will be heading to Battle Forge.
Spacelizard
· 4 months ago
San Angelo, Tx Results:
out of 16 players 1st Marines - Gunline /Ultramarines 2nd Marines - Mech/ Vulkan (myself) 3rd IG - Mech/*not sure of the makup other than i saw lots of tanks
My day: Round1 - vs Thousand Sons He had Ahirman and 4 TS squads, Raptors w/ MoT, and 2 Havoc squads w/MoT. This was a Minor Victory for me and would have been a Massacre if one of my tactical squads had been 1" closer to the objective when the game ended. Rhinos protected my scoring units from AP3 bolters, in fact I think there was only one time that one of my scoring units got shot with inferno bolts and that was my tac squad without a transport that was camping one of my own objectives in cover so losses were minimal. Secondly, I got lucky and the psychic hood from my librarian prevented all but 1 of Ahirman's psychic powers from hurting me the entire game. Continuing with the Librarian, Null zone + Melta weapons made short work of TS since they had to reroll their invuln saves.
Round2 - Eldar Eldrad+Avatar list w/ 3 War Walkers, 2 ranger quads, 1 guardian squad, 2 dire avenger squads, 2 dark reaper squads, 1 unit of harlequins, possibly another squad of something .. cant remember. My first thinking was both of my HQs need to be up close to be effective, but eldrad can be 100% effective just sitting in the back, and his avatar is immune to all my flamers and meltas. I actually deployed my librarian with a tac squad in cover that had no line of sight at all and left them there the entire game, they literally did nothing the entire game. I made the mistake of disembarking vulkan and his terminators to assault a dire avenger squad that were blade storming my tactical squad. The reason I did this was that I was going for the battle point for having more troops in his deployment zone. The Dire Avengers failed their Ldr ship test from shooting from the tactical squad and thus Vulkan and the terminators had nothing to assault. The following turn I lose two Terminators to shooting and then the squad gets assaulted by harlequins. The combat begins with 5 close combat terminators and vulkan against a full squad of harlequins. At the end of 4 rounds of combat all that stands is Vulkan with 1 wound left, this meant that in the following turn vulkan would be out in the open against 2 star cannons from war walkers, a bright lance from the guardians and a dark reaper squad. I managed to roll a 6 for my consolidation move which was just enough to move vulkan behind my land raider and out of LOS of his entire army. Luckily his avatar got stuck in close combat with one of my drop podded dreads for the majority of the game and was not a major threat. In the end we came to a Tie with 8 Kill points each but I was able to score 1 extra point for having more troops in his deployment zone.
Round 3 - Imperial Guard I was facing 2 30 strong platoons w/ command squads, 4 chimeras full of hardened vets, a quad of 2 leman russes w/ battle cannons, one leman rus with a demolisher, a basilisk, Col. Straken & command squad, and 2 heavy weapons teams. He went first and first turn first shot wiped out my entire bike squad with his basilisk. In my first turn my Dread with MM and heavy flamer droppodded in right behind his basilisk and scored an immobilized with the Multi Melta and a Vehicle explodes with the heavy flamer. During his first turn he sent one of his platoons and one of the hardened vet squads after one objective and 3 of his hardened vet squads and a platoon after the other. I took minor losses throughout the game only losing the bike squad and two rhinos. On the objective that he sent less troops at. I was able to make his chimera explode from a krak missle and he lost half his squad from the explosion. the platoon that was camping on the objective lost half of its men from flamer and combi flamer from one squad in one round of shooting plus a few more from bolter fire where he had a cover save. My tac squad wiped out his entire platoon with just 3 flamer shots due to the way the terrain was modeled. On the other side of the board I was able to pop all but one of his transports with my Land raider and he took massive losses from Vehicle explodes results. The guys that were left were quickly wiped up from flamers out of the top hatch of a rhino. In the end I walked away with an easy Massacre, however I would have to say that Vulkan's twin linking of melta and flamer weapons 100% won me the game.
A Little Perspective
· 4 months ago
Do you know the rough make-up of the gunline marine list that came first?
Spacelizard
· 4 months ago
I know he ran Calgar, an Ironclad, 1-2 quad PC Dev Squads, squadron of 3 land speeder Typhoons, the rest Tac squads. Not too sure about the rest of the makeup as I did not play him thats just what I saw from glancing at the table.
FreemanAIT
· 4 months ago
At a local tournament on the weekend and codex marines may be the new king of the hill. A guy brought a sallies army with Vulcan, 9 land speeders (6 melta-flame, 3 missile-bolt), 2 predator auto-bolt, dreadnought twin auto and 2 ten man tac squads with basic razorbacks. It was unstoppable. Twin linked flamer/meltas on speeders gave guaranteed kill on any target. Other vehicles gave an unyielding deluge of fire. Anything not blown or burn to bits finished by tac squads and Vulcan. 14 armour, high toughness, holofields, overwhelming numbers all easily countered. Vs daemons, 2 land raider marines, mech Eldar, mech dark Eldar, Armoured guard. It massacred without breaking a sweat. If this list takes off, you heard it here first and it was created by a guy called Frank. Be afraid of codex marines, very afraid.
joshuadearth
· 4 months ago
How did this guy claim objectives? Half the bonus points on most of the scenarios would be denied this guy if his two tac squads go down. While it sounds like a nice list I don't think it could handle being pinned down while the speeders recieved focus fire! If the speeders go and the tac squads dissapear I don't see this list doing a whole lot of anything really. I mean no offense by this, I just don't think it is as powerful as it is being made out to be. I say this because I faced a similar list with Calgar instead of Vulcan and a 10 man gun line termie squad instead of the predators. Other than that it was pretty much the same list and was tabled by turn 5 with minimal losses returned. THe terminators were pinned for all but the first turn of the game and never did anything. The speeders went down early and then it was just focus fire on the squads. That is my thoughts for what it is worth. Again I mean no offense by this.
FreemanAIT
· 4 months ago
Combat squads, that's four scoring. Razorbacks allow for a 4+ turn rush. Was it against 9 speeders? That many are hard to put down. You only get one/two turns to put them down before they cause serious damage. The missile squad offer great stand off fire power while the other speeders can move 12'' and still be effective with one weapons because its twin linked. Also the speeders can be held and deep striked to let them get first licks on a gun line. 2 twin auto on a dread sounds crappy but as I learned twice it gives on average 3-4 str 7 a turn so the gun line can't be ignored. The tacs keep there head down and contribute with heavy weapons and razor twin bolters. Calgar, god bless him doesn't give the same weapons boost. The army has 6 twin Hv flamers and Multi-melta and enough missile, auto and hv bolter flank to turn your stomach. It has 8 auto, 6 missile and 27 Hv bolter shoots per turn before you count Vulcan and the squads. The auto/bolter pred cost 85pts and take a dogs beating to knockout/silence or stopped from being a shield. A termi squad costs 200 before upgrades and will be evaporated by ap2 weapons or if called to make enough saves. Termi gun lines are like a gold handle on a glass hammer. Pretty but not cost effective. It's not my list so I wouldn't take offense but I think its a sleeping giant. You need luck to beat this army because he doesn't. I say this while playing full mech eldar lead by Eldrad.
FreemanAIT
· 4 months ago
Whoops forgot there is a whirlwind in there as well.
moonreaper
· 4 months ago
Anyone seen any necrons ? I read Tau got second at one tour But I havent seen any necrons .
Were there anyone playing them at least?
zenpaladin
· 4 months ago
Yeah read up a bit. Aparently a guy with max destroyers took first at some location.
All Comments
1 - Iyanden Eldar - 3 Massacres.
2 - Mech Orcs - 2 Massacres,1 Minor Loss.
2 - Mech SM - 2 Massacres, 1 Massacre Loss.
The Orcs had Ghaz, 2 BW, Nobs, KFF, Lootas, Kill Kans and lotsa boys. Typical Orc Lists.
The SM player had 3 LR, 2 Terminator units, 1 SS/TH, 1 Shooty, + Lysander.
The Iyanden (Me), has Eldrad, Yriel, 2 Full Size Wraithguard units with Conceal, 10 Pathfinders, 10 DA with Bladestorm in a Wave-Serpent, 5 Warp SPyders, 2 Wraithlords with EML and Bright Lance, 3 Dark Reaper with Tempest Launcher + Crack Shot.
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one. :D
Seer councils can spread out and assault 3 tanks at once and only need 2 hits to kill it most likely.. Or surround the vehicle and then blow it up
Anyways you just can't kill enough before hidden Klaws start shredding RA10 vehicles and the kill points start racking up.
Thats the problem with sacrificing you vehicles as speed bumps in this particular tourney...The kill point your giving away counts towards the level of victory.
The main reason I play mech myself though, is almost purely because of ordinance.
Mission 2 - Versus Space Marines. Massacred, 23 points.
Mission 3 - Versus Double Lash Plague Marine list. Massacred, 22 points.
69 points total.
Top 3 in the Melbourne, Florida area....
1 - Dark Eldar
2 - Orks
3 - Orks
The Mech heavy metagame is a DREAM for my 41 Dark Lance type weapons.... This is going to be a cake walk.
congrats, dude.
always so humble...............
You are too much ha!
1. Chaos Kingsly
2. SM Vulkan Mike M
3. Chaos - Me
Nurgle Prince; wings & warptime
Nurgle Prince; wings & warptime
10Nurgle Possessed; Rhino
10Nurgle Raptors; Rhino
7Plague Marines; 2melta, Rhino
7Plague Marines; 2melta, Rhino
7Plague Marines; 2plasma, Rhino
5Lesser Daemons
5Lesser Daemons
5Lesser Daemons
Defiler
Defiler
Defiler
~kings
So were you free points to anyone you played or did you not even bother showing up?
This subject has been exhausted on this Blog but there are just some armies that keep coming up that I am just tired of playing against. These army lists are very obviously good on paper but don’t require much skill to dream up or use. Ard Boyz is an opportunity to abuse all the different army lists, and for that reason I am not a fan of the tournament (even though I placed this year).
Personally I took a fairly hard army, but one I knew would be fun to play with, and since I do not have fun playing against Lash and Oblits I figured I would not have fun playing with them either.
~kings
At our FLAGS (battle forge games in Austin) we do “hobby and heavy” tournaments. At one tournament, in three games, I faced
21 Oblits
5 Lash Princes
Abodon
Ouch!
~kings
You know who this is. ;)
Lash of Submission.
90% of chaos armies you face in tournaments will have twin lash princes. A single lash against one of your units can lose you the game, be it having an elite unit pulled out of cover to be plasma cannoned, vindicatored or assaulted, or having your scoring units pulled off of objectives in the closing turns.
You can lash an assault marine unit but not a squad of scouts in a storm. You can lash a combat squad off a loot counter, but not a combat squad hiding in a metal box.
What ability gives you a reroll in CC vs vehicles? It's not preferred enemy at least :-) Is that some army-specific ability 'cause I've never heard of it?
Its a common use for my various Ork warbosses, often with a meganob retinue if I take a megaboss. Thats a lotta power klaws (read powerfists if you dont know orks).
I've seen quite a few abilities to allow rerolls for shooting but not vey many for rerolling hits in CC. Also, since CC against vehicles uses it's own table I would take that discussion before I claim a reroll against a vehicle.
so there isnt any discussion...its only "reroll failed to wound" rolls I could see even coming close
to debate :)
as an extra dice can be just as good as getting an extra hit on a reroll :)
That is a really small base, and a very tall post the model is resting on. Isn't that model *way* too unstable to use in a gaming environment? (clumsy arms, unsupervised game store kids, etc.) That model is coming down to earth in a bad way all too soon.
Anyone have any ideas about how to keep their Valkyries safe? I was planning to leave the base and post unused, but I expect to run into the "gotta use the base it came with" crowd.
it has actually helped as I have not had anyone knock it over even though I have had a few people hit it by accident...that and it makes a great weapon against zombies
A few washers at the bottom will help too if you are worried.
I played both the orks and the Dark Eldar. Both were great fun, though the ork game upset me a bit since 1 troop choice took 3 objectives. (Darn 30 man squad being about to spread out on the board and still be in cohesion.)
Anyhoo, It doesn't seem like that many people consider it cheesy power-gaming, soI think I can run my fully mechanised, transport-heavy IG without being considered too beardy I hope. And my three hydras should really help me tip the scales against any other player who has the same ideas!
But just a thought...could we see a back-lash against the transporter-spam? Maybe a rise in pure-foot slogging hordes, or armies composed of really tough-ass elites and mega-tooled up troops?
1st. Mixed-Mech Iyanden (Me. 3 Massacres)
2nd. Mech Sisters (3 Massacres)
3rd. Chaos Daemons (1 Massacre, 1 Draw, 1 Major Victory)
The Daemons guy got lucky as the top players were pairing against each other and getting decisive victories rather than the usual ties or minor victories. Outside of 1 Tyranid and 2 foot Eldar, everything there was mech... it was a field day for my Fire Dragons.
1. Chaos SM
2. Chaos SM
3. Nids (Me. Massacre, Tie, Minor)
There wasn't a single IG army at the tourney. The Chaos SM's I played were either Plague Marines, or Plagues with Khorne Marines. There were a total of 4 Nid players, 3 of which were in the top 6 finishers. I agree that dealing with lots of tanks is a definate problem for the Nid players, I did manage to pick up a fair number of kill points by killing off rhinos though.
I was the only crazy mate to bring three Battlewagons. With Deffrollas.
Did pretty well and placed third!
1. Orks (Walker Heavy/Hordy with a side of Battlewagon)
2. SM (Drop Poddy/Land Raider flavored)
3. Orks (Triple Battlewagon/Triple Nobs)
1) Dark Eldar 72 points (Wych Cult)
2) Imperial Guard 58 points (Mega Mech)
3) Orks 54 points (Flash Gits/Mega Nobz)
I didn't get to play this weekend, but I did observe a bit (I think that makes me unbiased, since I'm not bitter about losing, etc). What I saw discouraged me. The tournament scene is all too reminiscent of something that you Austinites are probably familiar with. It's the GW equivalent of the BCS in college football. It's a "win pretty" competition, and there's no strength of schedule calculation.
Our local store winner was a Dark Eldar player, who benefitted tremendously by playing two opponents in his first games who didn't know anything about the army. He racked up every possible point, and by then was so far ahead of everyone that it was nearly mathematically impossible to lose, no matter what happened in the third game. Running up the score counts, ladies and gentlemen.
The problem is, while that DE player is good, he's not head and shoulders above the other players in the tournament. His score does not reflect that. Unfortunately, there's not a head-to-head battle at the end to determine the winner. It's all score based. It's not enough to win, you've got to win big. That means that there's a huge advantage to getting paired up opposite a newb who doesn't know what he's doing. Many of the local veterans can beat the Dark Eldar player, but he never had to play any of them.
Unfortunately, this tournament method leads to building all-or-nothing armies. It makes a game environment where a comfortable win is the same as a loss. Anything short of a massacre means that you're falling behind the guy who got the easy draw. This pushes us towards armies that can achieve those massive victories, at the expense of perhaps not being able to beat certain armies. It leads to 7 Land Raider lists and other super-specialized armies. Those armies don't win consistently in week-to-week play, because they are too easy to counter. But with Ard Boyz, all you have to do is get two opponents who aren't prepared for it, and you can get a huge score advantage.
So, the lesson is, bring an army that can beat Baylor 900 to 0. Those points count the exact same as the points you'll score later against UT. In the end, we just add up the number of points someone scores and declare the one with the most the winner.
What they should do, play winners versus winners, and weight the points earned in the later games more heavily than the ones scored in the first games. So points earned in a game against a scrub in round one will only count for half as much as points earned in round two (against someone who won their round one game). Then, those points would only be worth half as much as the ponits you earn in round three, against someone who has won their previous two games. Match people up that way, and you should be able to avoid having someone who annihilates his first opponents and then has too big a lead to overcome.
At the tournament I was at, this wasn't quite the case. The first round seemed to be a random draw. the second round the top scores were playing against the top scores. In the second round it was 1 v 2, 3 v 4, and so on. The thrid round was a bit different, it was 1 v 4, 2 v 3, 5 v 6. The theory that was stated was that it gives a better chance of getting into the top 3 if you were 4, 5, or 6. Not too sure about that. However, the net result of this was that no one scored over 60 points. I took 3rd with 46 points, which from the scores I've seen posted, I wouldn't have enough points to qualify. I believe that 2 massacres was the best that anyone posted on the day. I played the #1 player in the 3rd round, (Nid vs. CSM) and barely managed a minor victory. However, it was just enough to move me up one place, and moved him down to #2.
I'm not sure about weighting the points in the later rounds, but I completely agree that the players witht he better scores should be playing in the later rounds.
At my lgs, winners did fight winners. For the third game I was in 1st while my opponent was in 2nd. The judge advised my opponent to play to win because he announced that he was going to just get lazy for his easy 2nd place finish.
I got 22 points and he got 0.
He got bumped down to 4th place.
Second, don't blame the tournament. It is just a collection of ink on paper. If your local game store didn't pit winners versus winners, then blame the organizer. That is squarely his fault for faulty pairings.
I play dark eldar, and the guy I played in my first game got tabled. He was so pissed he dropped out of the tourney, declared he was leaving 40k (I doubt it) and cried about how over powered my 11 year old codex was. Whatever lol. Cry to your mother. Next time join a tourney with sportsmanship and comp scores you can abuse to make yourself feel better. lol.
I have no problems with people bringing killer lists -- I can say that I've never been accused of being a soft hearted player. :) My concern is that in the last two Ard Boyz tournaments we've seen a player take first and somehow manage to avoid playing anyone decent until the last game. And I've seen frustrated players (who managed to win every game they played) sit and say "But I would stomp this guy's list..."
So, seeing this two years in a row, I think there's an inherent flaw in the way they calculate points. It's too easy to build a huge lead early against a player who might play one game every six months. And that's a problem.
The winner in our area was playing a chaos daemons list (Khorne with a splash of Nurgle and Fateweaver). All of that anti-tank meant nothing to him - everything was immune to instant death and low AP meant nothing. All those lascannons were just wasted points, for the most part.
I can see Daemons becoming a stronger option as more people gear heavily towards anti-mech.
1st Necron airforce
2nd eldar warwalker with scatter laser horde
3 tyranid nidzilla
24 entrants i got 9th useing worldeater chaos marines got butchered by the 2nd place eldar guy in 3rd game
(
What the guy had 15 Destroyers and 9 Heavy D's?
I'm blown away a Necron force made 1 in any tourny.
One thing with all the mech lists is that the craters are hard to deal with. Very few people actually have the amount of craters required. By the end of the game we were so confused about where the craters were cause he didnt have any with him.
Mech is definitely the way of the future, but luckily its not the end all be all, as there are ways to deal with it.
You know you can just leave the vehicle there, and use it as a crater right?
It doesn't block line of sight and then you'll be fine.
1. mech eldar (fire prisms/wave serpents)
2. orks w/ nob bikers, deffkoptas and Ghazgull
3. chaos w/ two DPs
out of 16 players
1st Marines - Gunline /Ultramarines
2nd Marines - Mech/ Vulkan (myself)
3rd IG - Mech/*not sure of the makup other than i saw lots of tanks
My day:
Round1 - vs Thousand Sons
He had Ahirman and 4 TS squads, Raptors w/ MoT, and 2 Havoc squads w/MoT. This was a Minor Victory for me and would have been a Massacre if one of my tactical squads had been 1" closer to the objective when the game ended. Rhinos protected my scoring units from AP3 bolters, in fact I think there was only one time that one of my scoring units got shot with inferno bolts and that was my tac squad without a transport that was camping one of my own objectives in cover so losses were minimal. Secondly, I got lucky and the psychic hood from my librarian prevented all but 1 of Ahirman's psychic powers from hurting me the entire game. Continuing with the Librarian, Null zone + Melta weapons made short work of TS since they had to reroll their invuln saves.
Round2 - Eldar
Eldrad+Avatar list w/ 3 War Walkers, 2 ranger quads, 1 guardian squad, 2 dire avenger squads, 2 dark reaper squads, 1 unit of harlequins, possibly another squad of something .. cant remember. My first thinking was both of my HQs need to be up close to be effective, but eldrad can be 100% effective just sitting in the back, and his avatar is immune to all my flamers and meltas. I actually deployed my librarian with a tac squad in cover that had no line of sight at all and left them there the entire game, they literally did nothing the entire game. I made the mistake of disembarking vulkan and his terminators to assault a dire avenger squad that were blade storming my tactical squad. The reason I did this was that I was going for the battle point for having more troops in his deployment zone. The Dire Avengers failed their Ldr ship test from shooting from the tactical squad and thus Vulkan and the terminators had nothing to assault. The following turn I lose two Terminators to shooting and then the squad gets assaulted by harlequins. The combat begins with 5 close combat terminators and vulkan against a full squad of harlequins. At the end of 4 rounds of combat all that stands is Vulkan with 1 wound left, this meant that in the following turn vulkan would be out in the open against 2 star cannons from war walkers, a bright lance from the guardians and a dark reaper squad. I managed to roll a 6 for my consolidation move which was just enough to move vulkan behind my land raider and out of LOS of his entire army. Luckily his avatar got stuck in close combat with one of my drop podded dreads for the majority of the game and was not a major threat. In the end we came to a Tie with 8 Kill points each but I was able to score 1 extra point for having more troops in his deployment zone.
Round 3 - Imperial Guard
I was facing 2 30 strong platoons w/ command squads, 4 chimeras full of hardened vets, a quad of 2 leman russes w/ battle cannons, one leman rus with a demolisher, a basilisk, Col. Straken & command squad, and 2 heavy weapons teams. He went first and first turn first shot wiped out my entire bike squad with his basilisk. In my first turn my Dread with MM and heavy flamer droppodded in right behind his basilisk and scored an immobilized with the Multi Melta and a Vehicle explodes with the heavy flamer. During his first turn he sent one of his platoons and one of the hardened vet squads after one objective and 3 of his hardened vet squads and a platoon after the other. I took minor losses throughout the game only losing the bike squad and two rhinos. On the objective that he sent less troops at. I was able to make his chimera explode from a krak missle and he lost half his squad from the explosion. the platoon that was camping on the objective lost half of its men from flamer and combi flamer from one squad in one round of shooting plus a few more from bolter fire where he had a cover save. My tac squad wiped out his entire platoon with just 3 flamer shots due to the way the terrain was modeled. On the other side of the board I was able to pop all but one of his transports with my Land raider and he took massive losses from Vehicle explodes results. The guys that were left were quickly wiped up from flamers out of the top hatch of a rhino. In the end I walked away with an easy Massacre, however I would have to say that Vulkan's twin linking of melta and flamer weapons 100% won me the game.
I read Tau got second at one tour But I havent seen any necrons .
Were there anyone playing them at least?