A lone Scout Sergeant once defended his wounded squad mates after their storm got shot down and a massive horde of Guardians opened up on them with their catapults. The guardians assaulted. Armed with a power sword and combi-flamer he destroyed the Guardian unit in a sweeping advance. He then followed up that act of improbability with another by melta-bombing a nearby fast-moving Wave Serpent and pinning the surviving Banshees (two or three died) with the ensuing explosion. Then he fired his combi-flamer and savaged the Banshees, burning over half of them. Then, adding insult to injury, he ran back and claimed an objective.
He then went on to write a best-selling novel which was later turned into a motion picture staring John Wayne, who made a rare resurrection appearance, just to play the role.
But seriously I have a hard time ever using this model after that. That should never happen, and will never happen again.
mormok
· 5 months ago
I need to strongly disagree with calling Lesser Daemons "crap". They are awesome. They can deepstrike and assault! and are a 13pt. model with 3 attacks on the charge with marine stats. Yes that is all they do, but that is all they need to do. Also they are a scoring unit. They have won me more games than any other unit in the CSM codex. yes more than Oblits and Lash princes.
Also I think there are 2 types of "crap units". 1 too expensive but good, and 2 does nothing units. Example 1 Possessed, example 2 conscripts. I think type 2's fit Goatboy's ideas well (and maybe some more tricks), but type 1's just put you at a numerical advantage. 1's can still kill stuff but they eat up a ton of points to do so.
FiscalHermitCrab
· 5 months ago
Mine is somewhat embarrassing in that I charged a six man fire warrior squad with a six man tactical squad thinking I was gonna clean house, anyway I fail to hit just about anything and what does hit only passes a single wound, which is promptly saved. All six of his strikes back hit and all six wound. I continue my suckitude by not getting above a two on my armour saves, thus having some of the Emperor's Finest (praise His name!) die at the hands of the worst close combateers in the game all because I went in there like a cocky sum'bitch.
FiscalHermitCrab
· 5 months ago
Oh but I've also taken out an avatar with the two storm bolters on a vindicator after it got its cannon taken out, so I guess that makes up for it...sort of.
Skragger
· 5 months ago
I've seen Black Templar drop pod in, get charged BY, and wiped silly by firewarriors.. now *that* was a game...
KNW
· 5 months ago
Friend of mine charged a biker Chaplain worth far too many points into a squad of Fire Warriors and rolled a storm of 1's. Those same fish'eads then beat him down with the buttstocks of thier rifles. For some reason, he hasn't taken the Chaplain again....
Selerox
· 5 months ago
I've seen worse.
Ghazghkull Thraka being taken down in CC by an XV8 and 4 stealth suits.
Skorsson
· 5 months ago
My funniest moment with suck-unit happened back in fourth ed:
I played Tyranids against Chaos Khorne-based army (Lord, Blodthrister, Dreadnaught, squads of Berzerkers, Oblits, Defiler) at 1500 pts. I had a a two-biovore brood armed with bio-acid mines. On 1st turn I fired them at the dreadnaught but missed, and instead hit the lord, miraculously inflicting 1 wound. On 2nd turn I missed the dread again, and the mines landed somewhere behind it, while the lord was finished off by a lone genestealer. The fun part is, on his turn the Chaos player rolled for Drednaught frenzy, and had to charge those spore mines, while one of his berzerker squads that was preparing to hit my carnifex, also had to charge the mines. The mines were killed, they exploded and destroyed the dreadnought, also taking some berzerkers with them :-)
Too bad, that in the new csm codex berzerkers no longer have this funny rule.
khanaris
· 5 months ago
I guess I would also divide it into units that "suck" but are fun to use, and those that are almost invariably frustrating to field.
There are a lot of weak units in the game that an enemy will generally ignore. But this means that they may not be crap at all. If they are effective because they can slip in under the radar, they are worth including in the list for that reason alone.
But units that "suck" because they are too expensive and relatively ineffective may not function very well in this capacity, either. These units often ARE a threat, and so they won't generally be ignored. They "suck" because having them there means the rest of your army is smaller.
Tau Vespids are like this. A Space Marine player can't ignore them, because they really are a threat to 3+ armies. The reason Vespids are not common is because dealing with that threat is fairly easy.
So I guess I wouldn't call a unit "crap" just because it falls low on the target priority lists. Even Grots can fill a few roles pretty well. You really have to go back to the older books, because GW has gotten a lot better at internal balancing.
faultie
· 5 months ago
I agree. I think cheap, poor abilities, and generally ill-performing doesn't necessarily make a unit/model "suck" (see: Grots).
The units I would say "suck" are those that are expensive, easily handled, and generally just lots of free KP for the enemy. In other words, those whose "opportunity cost" is too high to justify what you *aren't* taking instead.
You're not giving up a lot of points to take a Grot mob. Think of all else you could take for a Vespid swarm!
WES
· 5 months ago
Chaos spawn. Yes, they suck (especially since they took away the 3+ armor save and they cost so much now). I just use sorcerers with gift of chaos & turn my enemies into chaos spawn.
In a single game, I charged 2 wraithlords and the avatar with a chaos sorcerer, and actually turned one of the wraithlords and the avatar into spawn. The 2 newly minted chaos spawn tied up the other wraithlord for a turn and... yeah... you guessed it... I turned the other wraithlord into a spawn too. Man, it was good I was playing against a really good friend, and he was laughing so hard he nearly fell over. This single chaos sorc wiped out several squads of eldar, marines and orks over the course of the game (it was an apocalypse style game, before apocalypse came out). And people kept wondering why I owned so many chaos spawn models. Everytime someone shot at the sorc, I allocated the wounds to the spawn... then I just converted enemies into more spawn to replace any that fell.
Ah, good time, good times.
Rich
· 5 months ago
Hey, don't go slating Spawn, mine are great! Very first game I fielded three under the new Codex they wiped out a maxed squad of Banshees, 5 Dragons, maxed Avengers and a Guardian squad with Warlock!
My opponents always seem to listen to the "internet wisdom" until they have met them a few times and ignore them so they always do something useful, even if its just to tie up squadrons of War Walkers or give the stuff advancing behind them a cover save!
The only bad thing about them is that most of my opponents are starting to gain a healthy respect for what they are capable of...
WES
· 5 months ago
Oh, I still love my spawn... I just liked the excuse to go nuts converting them. I'm just a little ticked about the cost (40pts!! more expensive then a terminator), and lack of an armor save.... tho, even I'll admit the 3+ armor save was a bit high in the last version of the codex.
They needed some combination of a slightly higher toughness, and like a 5+ save.
Chaosgerbil
· 5 months ago
I have somewhere about 40 chaos spawn... mostly converted from other models at their base. In a 4th edition tournament taking about 12 of them I got wiped once, had a draw, and won soundly in my three games. I had to resort to two lashes to do it though, I figured if I can't control Spawn movement then I will control the enemies moves. They are really overpriced though... and with no save.... qq
Awesome job turning three big models into spawns, I can't wait to do something like that.
rotaser
· 5 months ago
Lord of Change right in Front of my Falcon, Pulse Laser: Failed to wound, hmm, bad situation, he could have rushed my entire army...
but wait! This tiny twin-linked catapults only have S4... defensive weapon. 2 Hits 2 Wounds by 6's 2 failed Saves LoC send back to Warp ^.^
(*ಠ益ಠ)
· 5 months ago
Who gave you posting access and what have you done with Goatboy? Taking LESS THAN OPTIMAL UNITS TO A GAME!?
papasmurf
· 5 months ago
8 hormaguants of mine charged a squad of like 10-12 bloodletters, they had the initiative, and i slaughtered them to the last man (daemon?). i didn't think it was too spectacular, but i got an award for that campaign for "most memorable moment" or something like that, which is an award for oddball situations like that. i didn't think it was too strange since i upgraded my hormaguants with the WS, S, and Initiative bonus, but i guess everyone else thought different.
also funny story: tyranid carnifex beating on a captain, hits with 5 hits, fails to wound all of them. before the captain can use his fist, a lone gaunt hits him once, wounds him once, and the captain fails his 2+ save, thus resulting in the captain's death. Termagants in CC FTW :)
sodcactus
· 5 months ago
Of course! Who looks at a measly Gaunt when you have a Carnifex in front of you. Should make a tactic out of it :-)
Nider
· 5 months ago
Only problem you've gotta watch out for is if the gaunts are inside synapse range (read fearless). Then due to the unfortunate combat resolution, the opponent would just whack away at your gaunts, win combat resolution, then both units would get hit with the no retreat wounds.
maturin
· 5 months ago
Goatboy's thoughts are why I occasionally pull out my daemonhosts. Never that effective, but always tons of fun. One tied up a devastator squad for a whole game, both flailing ineffectually at each other. Eventually they had me down to 1 wound - then I rolled "re-knit wounds" for my power that turn.
At the end of turn 6 we decided to play out their little battle until there was a victor - and finally, the one or two marines left killed the host on turn 12 or so. :)
Son of Dorn
· 5 months ago
A daemon host once tied-up my Master of Sanctity for five turns. Everytime I would get him whittled down he would Re-knit Host Form, Toss in some Marines to end it? Bloodboil.
Damn you variance! You have thwarted me too many times!
WES
· 5 months ago
Every game I've ever played an opponent with deamonhosts, the hosts have completely disrupted my plans every game. They're worth it for that fact alone... the random powers, the distance they can move, will throw a monkey wrench into a lot of people's strategies. After a few turns of that nuttiness, your opponent runs the risk of concentrating too much attention on it... when they start reacting to your actions, then all they're doing is following your lead.
erfunk
· 5 months ago
I wish mine would do that. Mine are pretty incompetent. So much so that they've died when someone *didn't* shoot at them. Widely scattering templates and T4 don't mix.
They probably hate me (after all, I did enslave them...), and have a death wish. Either they choose to terrify/bloodboil/re-knit near my men, or teleport and mishap instead of assaulting. I've never seen a model roll 10"+ as consistently as them.
Teurastaya
· 5 months ago
I've seen Ghazghkull taken down by squad of Tau drones in one shooting phase. Few hits, four wounds, four 2+ saves failed.
stinkoman
· 5 months ago
never underestimate the gun drone. its the tau's best fighter with I4!
SinSynn
· 5 months ago
I friggin' love gun drones. I keep 2 squads of 4 in my 1750 list now. Ever since I had a 'heroic intervention' pulled on me- I lost 2 command squads- over 500 pts of models! I swore I wouldn't let it happen again....... My damn command squads always draw all-out assaults. Eventually they cave. But what to do? Answer- two 4 man gun drone squads (less than 50 pts. each!). With careful placement of the command squads, the gun drones are an exellent 'screen' unit. They can KEEP UP with the crisis squads, since they have jump packs- infantry like Kroot/Firewarriors get left behind, AND have a bigger footprint than the sleek gun drone squadron. And the gun drones usually die/flee at the right time, leaving their assaulters standing there, writing their wills. Yeah, other codexes have better stuff for 12 pts. each, but, c'mon- you know gun drones are cool lookin' and are just all around 'neat'. And, someone else said it better than me, but, in close combat? The sound effect? "Whirrrrrrrrr-DONK!" Hey, GW! When you finally get around to giving the poor, deserving, FAITHFUL Tau players our new codex- drop the price for drones, make 'em fearless or stubborn or something (Ld 7 for a MACHINE programmed to defend its programmers? C'mon..), and give us some cool new types (like a dedicated CC drone. Hmmm? Please?). 'Cuz, for the Tau, drones are the shiznick.
Bijyu
· 5 months ago
I took some repentia in last nights game and they are easily the worst unit in the game. I took them for the "fun" value. Of course on turn 2 they got holy rage ran out charged some ork boyz killed a few (or well the mistress did) and then died a horrible death.
Even being the worst unit in the game for the most retarded amount of points I will still probably take them again just because I like the way they look and its fun when they actually do something.
Son_of_Deliverance
· 5 months ago
What!? Sisters Repentia are expensive and fragile; a bad combo in any army. But worst unit in the game? Hardly. They are certainly in this category of units, and I really only take them religiously (Ha! pun) because of the fluff of my army, but still...Vespids; arguably the majority of the Necron Codex; Deff Koptas and Flash Gitz...all of these are units that are overpriced, and in some of those cases, LESS effective than a 12+ unit of fearless S6 Eviscerators that can move in your opponent's turn.
Kettu
· 5 months ago
Vespids are wonderful ambush artists. Won me more games then my nine Crisis Suits and Commander jumping around.
Repentia on the other hand. I tied, I really did. I even play tested them several times with friends at 10 points each but they are still only barely worth it.
It's just sad really. That the brand (only) new unit fo the Sisters are worthless, have been from the beginingand that with an entier 50% OFF their total points value they are still horrible.
They have to win the award for worst unit in the entier game. They just suck that much.
Bijyu
· 5 months ago
Expensive at 20 points a model, Fragile at 5+ armor save. Difficult to control. Always strike last. The only good thing about the unit is str 6. And with it not being a power weapon your opponents almost always get armor saves. The only thing repentia are good at killing is....repentia.
Vespids deff koptas and flash gits can all be viable to fulfill a role. Where as the only roll repentia can fill is "avoidable speed bump" and at the point cost why would you want to sacrifice them in such a way. As for the necron codex the units in the codex arent so bad (warriors are arguably the best troop choice in the game) its just some out dated rules and predictability of the army that hurt it.
Bijyu
· 5 months ago
actually im going to take back my "best troop choice" comment. Plague marines will win that one. But the warrior is still up there.
Apogee
· 5 months ago
Repentia have a 4+ save, not 5+. So they can take some bolter fire. Dunno how those robes stop bolter shells, but oh well...
Repentia can work wonders if properly manage. Generally, this means keeping them in reserve if the enemy has an assaulty army, or at least an assaulty unit that will come to you. They make an excellent counter charge unit. and always, ALWAYS take a priest. And don't charge mobs... charge terminators. They kill termies and vehs. And Nobs.
stinkoman
· 5 months ago
i believe they have a 4+ and the evicerator is a power fist that rolls 2d6 for armor penetration.
erfunk
· 5 months ago
The problem with Repentia is not just that they are expensive and fragile. It's that they're VERY expensive, hard to control, need to survive in numbers, and are weak to the very things they're designed to kill. The only thing they have going for them at all is 'in an ideal situation'.
It's not terribly hard for your foe to lure them away from cover then AP4 them to death. Or heck, weight of fire them. It's not that they're not a threat, it's that they're really easy to deal with. If they had invuln saves (cause really, there's no other way to explain how those models get a save at all) they'd at least be more survivable.
Again it's not that they *can't* perform, if allowed to cross the board. But they DO earn the 'worst unit in the game' title. A savvy player should have no trouble backhanding your ~250 point unit with minimal effort and point investment. Repentia won't arrive in numbers without luck, getting overlooked, or so much babysitting and transport shielding you're compromising the rest of your army. And if you do make it? They have more control than you over what you get to assault, and your average 10 marines with a flamer will shoot down 5 Repentia in a single volley. Or an empty rhino happens to move out to a flank, but is the closest unit to the Repentia. Rather inconvenient that you have to spend at least 2 turns in the open, dealing with it - one to get there and one to get back. Even worse if there's fast vehicles kiting you half the time.
Other candidates for 'worst' unit often have something going for them, regardless of efficiency. Every example you gave has something significant in their favor over the Repentia: control. And most of them are more durable and/or useful, to boot. Vespids are melta jump troops. Pariahs have high T. Deff Koptas don't belong in your list with TL-rokkits, outflanking, and high mobility. Flash Gitz... umm... well you get the point =P. Spawn are on par for crappiest unit - they trade theoretical effectiveness for being inexpensive. Honestly, Zealots are much closer to what Repentia should have been.
Sam Akers
· 4 months ago
Flash Gitz should never be used in the same sentence as "the worst unit in the game". Flash Gitz are nothing more or less than Nobz with awesome guns.
krang
· 5 months ago
Why not take Fabius Biles Enhanced marines to pimp the theme of the list? They're certaining not as crap as possessed but still fairly crap ;)
Goatboy
· 5 months ago
The two troop squads are there with Bile upgrades, forgot to type it out heh.
gahris
· 5 months ago
In a game this last weekend, a group of un-upgrade Space Marine Scouts took on and killed a biker farseer + 3 bike mounted warlocks, it took 3 melee phases but in the end I only lost 2 scouts.
Suneokun of Pathfinder
· 5 months ago
While hardly a sub-par unit, I got to play with a Baneblade in my last Apoc game. Best weapon - the 'tracer' autocannon. I destroyed 2 Rhinos and a Chimera with this 'targetting' weapon AND then got the reroll with the main cannon.
My favourite sub-par 'effect' was when 10 guardians and a basic farseer charged a Smurf Captain and 10 Space Marines. Despite being against the odds the Farseer landed his single hit EVERY turn, holding up humanities elite and ensuring that the Eldar held the field.
Skragger
· 5 months ago
Grots... never understood the little buggers
But as for a funny story with a now legendary unit in my gaming circle:
Last turn, traitorous imperial guard scum hold the objective, no good imperial guard in range to contest it... so he rammed the objective building with his leman russ, collapsing the building and killing everyone inside! Karma's a bitch sometime..
Fantasy wise, watching my Sigmarite Priest get flank charged by a Stegadon, surviving the impact hits (being run over by a dinosaur), but dying by a skink's spear on-top of said dinosaur... embarrassing...
sodcactus
· 5 months ago
I had 4 Ripper swarms with jumping biomorph in a game against Eldar. Of course the Eldar player saw them as nothing much more than an annoying unit he could take out "at a later stage", It felt great when they did their 18" assault, straight into one of his large guardian squads (that stod in open ground, relying on their Warlocks power to protect them) and slaughtering them almost to a man.
It just was a perfect picture moment where a carpet of teeths and claws just dragged the poor Eldars down and ate them. :-)
SLXIII
· 5 months ago
My last game vs Tyranids, 12 kroot infiltrated 18" away from his carnifex. I got first turn, moved them up 6 inches onto a hill, rapid fired his carnifex and caused one wound. His turn his fex charged the kroot, the kroot struck first and caused another wound. His fex was stuck in close combat till the end of turn 3. By that time the carnifex was the only part of his army remaining.
mathhammer
· 5 months ago
of course if the carnifex made that charge one of you two mis moved...
Infiltrate - must be more than 18" away Charge - must be within 6"
;)
Anonymous
· 5 months ago
You missed the part about him moving his Kroot up 6" and then rapid firing, meaning they were within charge range after the Carnifex made its 6" move.
BlackSly
· 5 months ago
He wasn't clear in his objection. It should have been "If you must infiltrate MORE than 18" away, and your move is 6", how did you get into Rapid Fire range in one turn?".
Granted, as is usually done, people infiltrate 17.9", and move 6.5", etc, so that's probably what happened. Once the Kroot get to Rapid Fire, it's clear the Fex could charge, but they shouldn't have been able to Rapid Fire on turn 1 if the Infiltrate range and the Move distance were both done legally.
Dutch Vigilante
· 5 months ago
Last tournament I had a Green tide list for my Orks. I had 25 points to spare in the end. So I rummaged through my codex and bitz box and had me a fancy new Lobba at the end of the day. Doesn't seem like much, sure. But pinning can stop a unit from firing at me while I stroll down the table. In the end they killed a squad of inq storm troopers, quite a bit of tau and some Boyz (that were holding an objective.) All in all them grotz did good... My warboss still ate them afterwards, though.
scotchjon
· 5 months ago
I remember taking a fifty strong mob of conscripts... I did beef them by adding Yarrick. They proceeded to wipe out a daemon prince, a chaos marine squad, a thousand sons squad, a lesser daemons squad, and were chasing another chaos marine squad while trying to stay out of the arc of fire of a defiler behind a wood... If someone had put the benny hill tune on while these 2 squads and spider like monstrosity were chasing each other it would have been hilarious. Sadly in this kill point mission enough of the rest of my army died to give him the win... one mof the closest kill point games i've played with guard though...
On the flip side I was playing against Tau and decided to assault the last remaining flying dinner plate from one of his tanks with a free squad. Couldn't take it down. So on my next turn I sent a command section in support. Couldn't take it down. Now my opponent made a lot of saves, ut for about three turns NOTHING happened. I guess my guys couldn't reach or something... eventually someone got on someone elses shoulders and slam dunked the thing or something, and we moved on.
MeanGreenStompa
· 5 months ago
Whilst threat priority is a great way to see your opponent panic and concentrate on precisely what you've banked on him/her doing, I don't think this excuses GW from sorting out some of the 'untakables' from the codices - as an ork player all they need to do with tankhuntas is take away the gloryhogs rule to reinvent this unit as viable, several other units from other armies; biovores, havocs, vespids etc, all are either too expensive or there's another unit that does the same thing better or both. Half the units in the Necron codex are never seen due to being so awful. More playtesting and have a live 'beta' period of adjustment for each codex before final release would reduce this.
Sam
· 5 months ago
To say nothing about Flash Gitz. I never see anyone take them.
Khorneguy
· 5 months ago
Flash Gitz are awesome when upgraded with all three upgrades.
Expensive, but i've never seen terminators die so fast. Plus their weapons have to overheat twice to kill them (they've got two wounds)
Zijan
· 5 months ago
I take a unit of Flash Gitz every time I play Orks. Never had them let me down. Granted they're extremely expensive (400 pts for 10) but I've never seen marines die so fast. I don't use Blastier, Gets Hot doesn't do it for me.
I can understand why people don't take them, the sheer cost is a deterrent. I have to purchase them first and build my army around them just so I have the points.
Sam Akers
· 4 months ago
I'm in the same boat with Flash Gitz, but I do take blastier. I figure the chances of dying from Gets Hot with 2 wound models with 4+ armor saves and Feel No Pain are low enough to make up for the added killing power.
Sam Akers
· 4 months ago
Just a slight clarification here, I tend to play 2000pt games, so I don't have to build my army around the Flash Gitz. Rather my army is built around the Flash Gitz as well as my 610pt Nobz mob.
Anonymous
· 5 months ago
Frankly I like the Glory Hogs rule as a drawback for Tankbustas, the problem is that it outweighs the benefits.
Making their rokkits twin-linked would at least even it out.
The True Mooseman
· 5 months ago
Especially since every tankbusta model HAS twin-linked rokkits. Sigh.
Madjob
· 5 months ago
Indeed, those definitely aren't normal rokkit launchas on the Tankbusta models.
BeastOfShadow
· 5 months ago
Havocs are brilliant. Give them 4 of the special weapons and hunt.
Mek Ghizmo
· 5 months ago
Best crap unit moment of my life had to have been where a mob of five scarab swarms with disruption feilds picked apart a land raider crusader over three turns. Killed all the weapons but the the multimelta and immobilized it in turn two, and they even took out the squad of marines that charged out in turn three. Turn four saw the loss of the multimelta, and turn five saw the end of my scarabs to a squad of marines with bolters and a flamer.
Myu
· 5 months ago
Speaking of scarab swarms, I remember this awesome game where a unit of scarabs flew across the field to some russ's and destroyed 3 of them... Their best (of a handful) of kills ever!
David
· 5 months ago
I had a similar experience with a unit of scarab swarms once. But more memorable is the few times I have taken Necron Tomb Spyders. They actually aren't bad - just not worth the points. But they are interesting and scarey looking and they tend to be fire magnets with players not used to Necrons. They can be a nice distraction, and if they ever get into close combat can do some damage (as Necron close combats go!)
Drunkencorgimaster
· 5 months ago
I was playing my son one time when an all-on-your-own grot took down a Wolf-Guard Terminator! The kill was worth something like 20x the point value of the killer. We still laugh about that one and imagine that the panicked little greenskin closed his eyes and squeezed off a shot from his duct-taped revolver. The round hit a weak spot in the re-breather and the wolf went down. We imagined the terminator's company scratched out all records of the Wolf Guard in question for dying in such a pathetic manner.
sodcactus
· 5 months ago
Had a similar thing when I had two Spinegaunts fleeing towards Synapse. They ran close to 5 terminators which I promptly fired at and managed to score two wounds! Even better, my esteemed opponent failed one of the armour saves and pop, one terminator down, worth roughly 45 points. One of the Emperors Finest killed by a 5 point Gaunt. :-)
Myu
· 5 months ago
I have found memories of one of my land raiders firing with both TL lascannons and failing to kill Bezerkers, then firing the storm-bolter and killing them with that... I theorize the weaker the weapon, the more likely it is to kill the opponent :P
Xas
· 5 months ago
I think you have to difere between "crap" as in "cannot do anything but costs as few as it kills" and "crap" as in "one glass canon for the price of a baneblade".
first type is really viable and totally fits your description. I'm used to using my termagaunts that way. everyone discards them as a mobile cover save for my warriors and tyrant guards... as long until the open up the first turn and kill ~5 marines per squad.
second type is far more hard to use. in my eyes prime examples are the tau vespids and marine vanguards or honor guards as well as the possesed. those units are not bad by themselfes (possesed get +1s, a 5+ invul and fearless and only loose their shooting ands coring status comapred to normal csm) but just cost too much so you have to have a good strategy.
a good example for a fail while beeing sucessfull with those units was a 7 man vanguard squad heroic interventioning next to my fex, assoulting and killing him and 8 spinegaunts while loosing two marines to the fex's attacks (they killed him with powerfists). yeah they killed a 113pts carnifex and 40ppts gaunts without me standing a chance to stop it. but in the end it cost him around 300pts to do so because they were mowed down by a dakkarant and 32 termagaunts the turn after. :)
Daximu
· 5 months ago
Personally I like Marine Honour Guard. I usually take 5 with my chapter master, four with Relic Blades and a banner and a Champion with a thunder hammer. They have once killed 2 fexs and a winged tyrant in one game. Throw them in a razorback and gun it forward to victory,
Anonymous
· 5 months ago
I don't think they're bad either - just yesterday I had a pretty large squad (9 + Chapter Master) drop pod assault in and take out a 10 man Chaos Marine squad, then charge a Termie Chaos Lord and his Terminator buddies and wipe them out, losing 5 honor guard at this point - expected, since I only had the Master's invuln to protect them from power weapons - then charge a squad of 10 Berserkers. I fully expected them to die at this point, and indeed I lost the initial combat by 1 and nearly ran (I was caught but No Retreat merely pinged off the armor of the Chapter Master). The following assault round the lone Chapter Master and Banner bearing Honour Guard wiped out the remaining 7 Berserkers with nary a wound inflicted against them. At this point I decided they'd earned a break from the constant bloody assaults and pulled them back to the main force as they grabbed objectives.
Khorneguy
· 5 months ago
lol, Honour Guard are all very good, but i lost track of the number of times i've run them through with a 5-strong rough rider unit. They have no invulnerable save!
Xas
· 5 months ago
how do you kill a hive tyrant with only I4? were they equipped with shields?
sodcactus
· 5 months ago
Or you are lucky and the Tyranid player only rolls 1 or 2's.
MTD
· 5 months ago
My gaming group is thinking of running a sucky unit tourney. With awards for the worst combos and all sorts of silliness.
Daximu
· 5 months ago
not to nitpick your Ard Boy list but "Troops: CSM (9), Meltagun (2), Asp Champ, Pwr Fist, MoK, Rhino" is incorrect. you need to take 10 Chaos Marines to take two special weapons. Unless Im missing something of course.
Goatboy
· 5 months ago
It is in the AB format - so 9 guys plus 1 asp champion. Thus making it 10 :).
Daximu
· 5 months ago
Well I take it back then ;)
Faolain
· 5 months ago
I've had a lot of fun with Shining Spears. They're expensive but absolutely devastating.
ftyk
· 5 months ago
my freind charged a unit of temries in 4th ed and killed them all in one round of combat with "over kill"
me
· 5 months ago
i had a unit of10 kroot rapidfiring at eldrad- uber farseer of DOOM and kill him outright! he was on full wounds and has a rerollable 3+ save but he rolled a heck of a lot of 1s it was a lol
Fire_Warrior
· 5 months ago
Wow, what an appropriate article. I just figured out yesterday that i can swap my 5-man Assault squad out for a Predator AND a Whirlwind! Deal!
Heliquin Jump-packer
· 5 months ago
and an extra 25pts, plus can you really find a reason for a naked predator, JPT FTW
Fire_Warrior
· 4 months ago
It will even have sponsons on, (im cutting some points off my HQ too)
faultie
· 5 months ago
Too many "throw-away units do amazing things" stories to think of one, but I will say that my favorite, under-loved weapon is the Heavy Stubber. I've had a single one destroy two drop pods and immobilize a dreadnaught in a game.
Quantity is a quality all its own, when it comes to pouring out HStubber shots.
Old_Paladin
· 5 months ago
Just a quick question, how does a strength:4 Hstubber cause any damage to an all-facings AV12 drop-pod?
faultie
· 5 months ago
*Meant "destroyed two drop pods...full of Space Marines (the squishy inside-bits) Wrote that around noon, on coffee cup 4. Hands (and brain) were still a bit shaky.
(Truf' be told, it was actually 2 htstubbs, iirc. Game was some time ago. I just remember constantly smiling and jumping for joy whenever it managed to slay a bunch of Marines, while all those sniper rifles of mine failed to even hit, much lest wound or rend anything. To-date, those Snipers have killed all of...4 guys in a dozen games?)
Chaosgerbil
· 5 months ago
Here's a couple grot stories:
4th edition, old ork book vs. nids. In army builder, I accidentally gave a runtherd a powerklaw. He killed a Carnifex with it!
5th edition game against dark eldar, a mob of grots and runtherders eventually took down an Archon singlehandedly ...
WES
· 5 months ago
Chaos Cultists.
Sigh, I miss them. They were tons of fun. Once again, just an excuse to go nuts on converting stuff. My chaos cultists were 40K beastmen painted like tigers, armed with chainswords, pistols, flamers, etc (the original batch were made under the hella old chaos deamon worlds army list, if anyone remembers that). They're leaders were 4 armed beastmen with carapace armor and powerfists. Everyone laughed at the powerfists... but imagine the embarrassment when you're leader gets taken out by a beastman.
My favorite time with them was a long range duel between a pack of my beastman with 2 autocannons and a leman russ. They scored several glancing hits on it, stunning it for several turns, and then finally blew it up. Not bad for a BS of 2.
And then there was always the 50 man strong wave attacks. I don't care how good you are at HTH combat, killing 50 guys takes a while. Kiss that ultra tough assault squad goodbye for the rest of the game. "oh, you killed how many this turn? oh, okay... uhm, still 38 left"
Lerra
· 5 months ago
Forgive my nubness (we don't have any CSM players locally) but uh . . . 8 troops? Seems pretty nice to have that many scoring units. How do you get 8?
Denzark
· 5 months ago
Lesser Daemons don't take up force org slots but count as troops.
Crimson Fist
· 5 months ago
Mine was in a game of apocalypse. 3 Mech Eldar 5 man avaneger units sweep in to seize an objective. My 30 man grot unit is nearby in cover. They charge and wipe them out to the man. Green is mean!
Denzark
· 5 months ago
Goaty Goat
Like the look of the list - 2 questions - how many points, and what really bugs me, why MoT on the possessed - they are already invulnerable?
Khorneguy
· 5 months ago
Doesn't MoT give them a 4+ invunerable?
Denzark
· 5 months ago
Yes but as they already have 5+ inv what is the point for 40pts?
Rift Knight
· 5 months ago
During a big Apoc game before we had apoc rules it was 30,000 pts necrons vs any imperial. One of our IG players infiltrated 10 ratlings to a rock outcrop. They got assaulted by 6 wraiths( 2 Squads). The ratlings took no casulties and killed the wraiths to a fig over two rounds of cbt. Hilarious.
Rift Knight
stinkoman
· 5 months ago
Had a priest take the last wound form a fex with a laspistol.
I played a fun game with my WH Carnival of Craziness list against an IG gunline. Basically 7 penitent engines, 20 repentia, 20 zealots and some small SS squads and a tooled out inquisitor with a huge retinue ran accross the table looking for some CC. i was tabled by turn 3 and only managed to get one kill with my repentia after failing a leadership test and moving foward on his turn, only to get cut down by guardsmen.
Lord Boofhead
· 5 months ago
I once had a mob of grots take out a unit of Termies. Took 'em 3 or 4 turns and they were down to 5 or 6 grots by the end of it!
Also I miss being able to give give Runtherds Tank Buster bombs. Opponent: Why are you chargeing my vindicator with a grot herd? Me:The Runt Herd has a TBB! :-D Boom no more nasty tank pinning down my army.
Heliquin Jump-packer
· 5 months ago
Once i was playing against a good friend and he performed a great little fail. When we play, if a template scatters and lands on your own troops you take the full brunt of the pain. Well he had powered his LR crusader strait up the centre of the board filled with CC termies and was getting ready to try and assault my jump troopers (big squad of 10 with a chaplain and commander) but he fort he would fire his vindicator at them first just to soften them a little, the shot scatters back and hits the crusader, pop, the termies try and bail out but only 2 of the eight actually make it out alive, to add a little extra insult to his pain the explosion from the crusader killed three marines that were using it for cover in a five man squad and the remaining two decided that they were better off running for their lives, twas dead fun to see it all unfold.
Hanged Man
· 5 months ago
In a game from around new year's I had a basic guardsmen squad charged by eldar jetbikes. The squad had already endured some losses from shooting, but the charge saw nearly everyone who was left annihilated, save for the sergeant. The sergeant, in response, brought down two bikers, prompting a Ld check which was failed, sending the remaining eldar bikers fleeing off the board.
Following that, he charged a group of pathfinders and brought down three before finally being subdued.
I have since referred to him as, 'The Pedestrian'.
Chris
· 5 months ago
Don't have time to read all posts as boss would not like me surfing all day.....
But, found a lacking in your 'father' list... Possessed.
with Bile, he must have some 'failed' experiments about.
also seems to fit in with the 'crap' units, although i've had noting but sucess from mine. of course i usually give them a landraider or at least a rhino to ride up in. they need some protection after all..... -Chris
Wowbagger
· 5 months ago
I killed a Lord of Change with Gretchin the other day, among other things! Like you said, the crap unit was ignored until the end and if I wasn't stupid and accidently strayed just over 3" from an objective those Gretchin would have won the game after killing a Greater Daemon, Chaos Lieutenant and a bunch of Chaos Marines. As it was I snatched a draw. Go crap units!!
All Comments
He then went on to write a best-selling novel which was later turned into a motion picture staring John Wayne, who made a rare resurrection appearance, just to play the role.
But seriously I have a hard time ever using this model after that. That should never happen, and will never happen again.
Also I think there are 2 types of "crap units". 1 too expensive but good, and 2 does nothing units. Example 1 Possessed, example 2 conscripts. I think type 2's fit Goatboy's ideas well (and maybe some more tricks), but type 1's just put you at a numerical advantage. 1's can still kill stuff but they eat up a ton of points to do so.
Ghazghkull Thraka being taken down in CC by an XV8 and 4 stealth suits.
I played Tyranids against Chaos Khorne-based army (Lord, Blodthrister, Dreadnaught, squads of Berzerkers, Oblits, Defiler) at 1500 pts.
I had a a two-biovore brood armed with bio-acid mines. On 1st turn I fired them at the dreadnaught but missed, and instead hit the lord, miraculously inflicting 1 wound. On 2nd turn I missed the dread again, and the mines landed somewhere behind it, while the lord was finished off by a lone genestealer.
The fun part is, on his turn the Chaos player rolled for Drednaught frenzy, and had to charge those spore mines, while one of his berzerker squads that was preparing to hit my carnifex, also had to charge the mines. The mines were killed, they exploded and destroyed the dreadnought, also taking some berzerkers with them :-)
Too bad, that in the new csm codex berzerkers no longer have this funny rule.
There are a lot of weak units in the game that an enemy will generally ignore. But this means that they may not be crap at all. If they are effective because they can slip in under the radar, they are worth including in the list for that reason alone.
But units that "suck" because they are too expensive and relatively ineffective may not function very well in this capacity, either. These units often ARE a threat, and so they won't generally be ignored. They "suck" because having them there means the rest of your army is smaller.
Tau Vespids are like this. A Space Marine player can't ignore them, because they really are a threat to 3+ armies. The reason Vespids are not common is because dealing with that threat is fairly easy.
So I guess I wouldn't call a unit "crap" just because it falls low on the target priority lists. Even Grots can fill a few roles pretty well. You really have to go back to the older books, because GW has gotten a lot better at internal balancing.
The units I would say "suck" are those that are expensive, easily handled, and generally just lots of free KP for the enemy. In other words, those whose "opportunity cost" is too high to justify what you *aren't* taking instead.
You're not giving up a lot of points to take a Grot mob. Think of all else you could take for a Vespid swarm!
In a single game, I charged 2 wraithlords and the avatar with a chaos sorcerer, and actually turned one of the wraithlords and the avatar into spawn. The 2 newly minted chaos spawn tied up the other wraithlord for a turn and... yeah... you guessed it... I turned the other wraithlord into a spawn too. Man, it was good I was playing against a really good friend, and he was laughing so hard he nearly fell over. This single chaos sorc wiped out several squads of eldar, marines and orks over the course of the game (it was an apocalypse style game, before apocalypse came out). And people kept wondering why I owned so many chaos spawn models. Everytime someone shot at the sorc, I allocated the wounds to the spawn... then I just converted enemies into more spawn to replace any that fell.
Ah, good time, good times.
My opponents always seem to listen to the "internet wisdom" until they have met them a few times and ignore them so they always do something useful, even if its just to tie up squadrons of War Walkers or give the stuff advancing behind them a cover save!
The only bad thing about them is that most of my opponents are starting to gain a healthy respect for what they are capable of...
They needed some combination of a slightly higher toughness, and like a 5+ save.
Awesome job turning three big models into spawns, I can't wait to do something like that.
but wait! This tiny twin-linked catapults only have S4... defensive weapon.
2 Hits
2 Wounds by 6's
2 failed Saves
LoC send back to Warp ^.^
also funny story: tyranid carnifex beating on a captain, hits with 5 hits, fails to wound all of them. before the captain can use his fist, a lone gaunt hits him once, wounds him once, and the captain fails his 2+ save, thus resulting in the captain's death.
Termagants in CC FTW :)
At the end of turn 6 we decided to play out their little battle until there was a victor - and finally, the one or two marines left killed the host on turn 12 or so. :)
Damn you variance! You have thwarted me too many times!
They probably hate me (after all, I did enslave them...), and have a death wish. Either they choose to terrify/bloodboil/re-knit near my men, or teleport and mishap instead of assaulting. I've never seen a model roll 10"+ as consistently as them.
My damn command squads always draw all-out assaults. Eventually they cave. But what to do?
Answer- two 4 man gun drone squads (less than 50 pts. each!).
With careful placement of the command squads, the gun drones are an exellent 'screen' unit. They can KEEP UP with the crisis squads, since they have jump packs- infantry like Kroot/Firewarriors get left behind, AND have a bigger footprint than the sleek gun drone squadron. And the gun drones usually die/flee at the right time, leaving their assaulters standing there, writing their wills.
Yeah, other codexes have better stuff for 12 pts. each, but, c'mon- you know gun drones are cool lookin' and are just all around 'neat'.
And, someone else said it better than me, but, in close combat? The sound effect?
"Whirrrrrrrrr-DONK!"
Hey, GW! When you finally get around to giving the poor, deserving, FAITHFUL Tau players our new codex- drop the price for drones, make 'em fearless or stubborn or something (Ld 7 for a MACHINE programmed to defend its programmers? C'mon..), and give us some cool new types (like a dedicated CC drone. Hmmm? Please?).
'Cuz, for the Tau, drones are the shiznick.
Even being the worst unit in the game for the most retarded amount of points I will still probably take them again just because I like the way they look and its fun when they actually do something.
Repentia on the other hand. I tied, I really did. I even play tested them several times with friends at 10 points each but they are still only barely worth it.
It's just sad really. That the brand (only) new unit fo the Sisters are worthless, have been from the beginingand that with an entier 50% OFF their total points value they are still horrible.
They have to win the award for worst unit in the entier game. They just suck that much.
Vespids deff koptas and flash gits can all be viable to fulfill a role. Where as the only roll repentia can fill is "avoidable speed bump" and at the point cost why would you want to sacrifice them in such a way. As for the necron codex the units in the codex arent so bad (warriors are arguably the best troop choice in the game) its just some out dated rules and predictability of the army that hurt it.
Repentia can work wonders if properly manage. Generally, this means keeping them in reserve if the enemy has an assaulty army, or at least an assaulty unit that will come to you. They make an excellent counter charge unit. and always, ALWAYS take a priest. And don't charge mobs... charge terminators. They kill termies and vehs. And Nobs.
It's not terribly hard for your foe to lure them away from cover then AP4 them to death. Or heck, weight of fire them. It's not that they're not a threat, it's that they're really easy to deal with. If they had invuln saves (cause really, there's no other way to explain how those models get a save at all) they'd at least be more survivable.
Again it's not that they *can't* perform, if allowed to cross the board. But they DO earn the 'worst unit in the game' title. A savvy player should have no trouble backhanding your ~250 point unit with minimal effort and point investment. Repentia won't arrive in numbers without luck, getting overlooked, or so much babysitting and transport shielding you're compromising the rest of your army. And if you do make it? They have more control than you over what you get to assault, and your average 10 marines with a flamer will shoot down 5 Repentia in a single volley. Or an empty rhino happens to move out to a flank, but is the closest unit to the Repentia. Rather inconvenient that you have to spend at least 2 turns in the open, dealing with it - one to get there and one to get back. Even worse if there's fast vehicles kiting you half the time.
Other candidates for 'worst' unit often have something going for them, regardless of efficiency. Every example you gave has something significant in their favor over the Repentia: control. And most of them are more durable and/or useful, to boot. Vespids are melta jump troops. Pariahs have high T. Deff Koptas don't belong in your list with TL-rokkits, outflanking, and high mobility. Flash Gitz... umm... well you get the point =P. Spawn are on par for crappiest unit - they trade theoretical effectiveness for being inexpensive. Honestly, Zealots are much closer to what Repentia should have been.
My favourite sub-par 'effect' was when 10 guardians and a basic farseer charged a Smurf Captain and 10 Space Marines. Despite being against the odds the Farseer landed his single hit EVERY turn, holding up humanities elite and ensuring that the Eldar held the field.
But as for a funny story with a now legendary unit in my gaming circle:
Last turn, traitorous imperial guard scum hold the objective, no good imperial guard in range to contest it... so he rammed the objective building with his leman russ, collapsing the building and killing everyone inside! Karma's a bitch sometime..
Fantasy wise, watching my Sigmarite Priest get flank charged by a Stegadon, surviving the impact hits (being run over by a dinosaur), but dying by a skink's spear on-top of said dinosaur... embarrassing...
It just was a perfect picture moment where a carpet of teeths and claws just dragged the poor Eldars down and ate them. :-)
Infiltrate - must be more than 18" away
Charge - must be within 6"
;)
Granted, as is usually done, people infiltrate 17.9", and move 6.5", etc, so that's probably what happened. Once the Kroot get to Rapid Fire, it's clear the Fex could charge, but they shouldn't have been able to Rapid Fire on turn 1 if the Infiltrate range and the Move distance were both done legally.
Doesn't seem like much, sure. But pinning can stop a unit from firing at me while I stroll down the table.
In the end they killed a squad of inq storm troopers, quite a bit of tau and some Boyz (that were holding an objective.) All in all them grotz did good... My warboss still ate them afterwards, though.
On the flip side I was playing against Tau and decided to assault the last remaining flying dinner plate from one of his tanks with a free squad. Couldn't take it down. So on my next turn I sent a command section in support. Couldn't take it down. Now my opponent made a lot of saves, ut for about three turns NOTHING happened. I guess my guys couldn't reach or something... eventually someone got on someone elses shoulders and slam dunked the thing or something, and we moved on.
Expensive, but i've never seen terminators die so fast. Plus their weapons have to overheat twice to kill them (they've got two wounds)
I can understand why people don't take them, the sheer cost is a deterrent. I have to purchase them first and build my army around them just so I have the points.
Making their rokkits twin-linked would at least even it out.
first type is really viable and totally fits your description. I'm used to using my termagaunts that way. everyone discards them as a mobile cover save for my warriors and tyrant guards... as long until the open up the first turn and kill ~5 marines per squad.
second type is far more hard to use. in my eyes prime examples are the tau vespids and marine vanguards or honor guards as well as the possesed. those units are not bad by themselfes (possesed get +1s, a 5+ invul and fearless and only loose their shooting ands coring status comapred to normal csm) but just cost too much so you have to have a good strategy.
a good example for a fail while beeing sucessfull with those units was a 7 man vanguard squad heroic interventioning next to my fex, assoulting and killing him and 8 spinegaunts while loosing two marines to the fex's attacks (they killed him with powerfists). yeah they killed a 113pts carnifex and 40ppts gaunts without me standing a chance to stop it. but in the end it cost him around 300pts to do so because they were mowed down by a dakkarant and 32 termagaunts the turn after. :)
I just figured out yesterday that i can swap my 5-man Assault squad out for a Predator AND a Whirlwind! Deal!
Quantity is a quality all its own, when it comes to pouring out HStubber shots.
Wrote that around noon, on coffee cup 4. Hands (and brain) were still a bit shaky.
(Truf' be told, it was actually 2 htstubbs, iirc. Game was some time ago. I just remember constantly smiling and jumping for joy whenever it managed to slay a bunch of Marines, while all those sniper rifles of mine failed to even hit, much lest wound or rend anything. To-date, those Snipers have killed all of...4 guys in a dozen games?)
4th edition, old ork book vs. nids. In army builder, I accidentally gave a runtherd a powerklaw. He killed a Carnifex with it!
5th edition game against dark eldar, a mob of grots and runtherders eventually took down an Archon singlehandedly ...
Sigh, I miss them. They were tons of fun. Once again, just an excuse to go nuts on converting stuff. My chaos cultists were 40K beastmen painted like tigers, armed with chainswords, pistols, flamers, etc (the original batch were made under the hella old chaos deamon worlds army list, if anyone remembers that). They're leaders were 4 armed beastmen with carapace armor and powerfists. Everyone laughed at the powerfists... but imagine the embarrassment when you're leader gets taken out by a beastman.
My favorite time with them was a long range duel between a pack of my beastman with 2 autocannons and a leman russ. They scored several glancing hits on it, stunning it for several turns, and then finally blew it up. Not bad for a BS of 2.
And then there was always the 50 man strong wave attacks. I don't care how good you are at HTH combat, killing 50 guys takes a while. Kiss that ultra tough assault squad goodbye for the rest of the game. "oh, you killed how many this turn? oh, okay... uhm, still 38 left"
Like the look of the list - 2 questions - how many points, and what really bugs me, why MoT on the possessed - they are already invulnerable?
Rift Knight
I played a fun game with my WH Carnival of Craziness list against an IG gunline. Basically 7 penitent engines, 20 repentia, 20 zealots and some small SS squads and a tooled out inquisitor with a huge retinue ran accross the table looking for some CC. i was tabled by turn 3 and only managed to get one kill with my repentia after failing a leadership test and moving foward on his turn, only to get cut down by guardsmen.
Also I miss being able to give give Runtherds Tank Buster bombs.
Opponent: Why are you chargeing my vindicator with a grot herd?
Me:The Runt Herd has a TBB!
:-D Boom no more nasty tank pinning down my army.
Following that, he charged a group of pathfinders and brought down three before finally being subdued.
I have since referred to him as, 'The Pedestrian'.
But, found a lacking in your 'father' list... Possessed.
with Bile, he must have some 'failed' experiments about.
also seems to fit in with the 'crap' units, although i've had noting but sucess from mine. of course i usually give them a landraider or at least a rhino to ride up in. they need some protection after all.....
-Chris
Like you said, the crap unit was ignored until the end and if I wasn't stupid and accidently strayed just over 3" from an objective those Gretchin would have won the game after killing a Greater Daemon, Chaos Lieutenant and a bunch of Chaos Marines. As it was I snatched a draw. Go crap units!!