I'm just picturing the checkout person now when they see you come in to buy dental picks, rubber tipped tools, and a some lube.
Miami
· 5 months ago
Thank you! I've tried working with green stuff and haven't gotten very good results, and this article already has given me a few tips. I hope to see this continue with articles about more advanced tips.
unyuzyall
· 5 months ago
Oh, so you had the idea to use a water-based lubricant and then, "went to the store to get some." Hmmm, yeah, sure you did.
Norseman
· 5 months ago
My question is...
Why did he have to go to the store to get the lube?
Cadaver
· 5 months ago
Hey, Psyberwolfe, I was at Hobby Lobby the other day looking for clay shapers and they didn't have any. Where do you get yours in Austin? Or do you get them online?
parrot
· 5 months ago
If you're in Austin, see if they have a Pearl Arts and Crafts, or an Utrecht art supply place. They're in the more specialized stores than Michaels.
Psyberwolfe
· 5 months ago
I get mine at Jerry's Art-O-Rama. Asels art also carries them. Online you can get them through Dick Blick or Jerry's Art-O-Rama.
BDub
· 5 months ago
I just thought I would mention that Clay Shapers typically come in two stiffnesses. While both have their uses, the firmer ones are much more useful when working with Green Stuff. I have a set of both and the soft ones are useful only on soft polymer clays like sculpey. The firmer ones can always be used with a lighter touch for much the same result as using the softer ones. Just a heads up.
Renegat
· 5 months ago
Green stuff works! I use this for years and it was simply great. No Problems with filling gaps or joining parts together.
faultie
· 5 months ago
For simply filling gaps/joints, I prefer "grey stuff?" I guess just simple piping epoxy-putty. It costs about half as much money for twice as much putty as green-stuff does. It hardens a lot faster, and has a distinct sulfur smell, but it's just fine for gap filling, joints, vehicle-detail, etc. I don't know that I'd use it for modeling cloaks, wolf pelts, etc. (things that take a while to properly sculpt), but it's a great replacement otherwise.
Never done me wrong.
Engelus
· 5 months ago
I made a cloak out of plumbers epoxy (aka grey stuff") do not reccomend it
it starts out creamy and like toothpaste, then in 10 minutes its stale cake frosting, and in 10 more its concrete.
faultie
· 5 months ago
You sure use thick toothpaste, if it's comparable to plumbing epoxy.
Engelus
· 5 months ago
or maybe I just brush with plumbing epoxy.
but my point still stands, for things like cloaks and organic bits, it never has a good consistancy to work with, it goes quickly from smushy, to crumbly to solid.
Psyberwolfe
· 5 months ago
Your mistake was using plumbers epoxy. The stuff sold by Gale Force or Reaper is a finer grade and therefore you will never get those results. You will quickly find that the stuff in the hardware store sucks. I now bite the bullet and buy the sculpting grade stuff.
Engelus
· 5 months ago
I routinely use green stuff, and ocasionally brownstuff, Ive only used plumbers epoxy twice. however, the brownstuff is far more expensive than greenstuff. so whatever he is talking about being far cheaper than greenstuff couldn't be the stuff I am thinking of. it must therefore be someotherstuff
here the seat is greenstuff, and the armor plate on the front is brownstuff
nardman
· 5 months ago
I personally use a very small amount of Blistex or chap-stick to keep lubed. I'm pretty sure it's mostly white petrolium doing the job, but for some reason, it works WAY better than Vaseline(which is just straight White Petrolium). It's worked well for me, cleans with soap and water, and does not get all over the place since it's a semi-solid. I bet the KY lubes tremendously, but I'd be worried about the mess.
Eyespy
· 5 months ago
Haha! Here I was thinking I was the only person using personal lubricants for green stuff. Stays sticky for a long time and washes off in soapy water, its ideal for green stuff.
Golga
· 5 months ago
This is just a fantastic article. ive always being down trodden when working with green stuff. i could never get it to mold well or not stick to what ever I used to work it. 5 stars on this and I hope you post a few more tips. One question though. What do you roll the green stuff on? Im worried that if I take the rubber rod to it it will stick to what ever I want and I personally don't want to lube up my painting table for a few hours of gs work. Do you use glass or something along those lines for when you roll it out?
Soundwave
· 5 months ago
I'm not an expert GSer, and I mainly just mold tentacles and gribbly skanky bits onto Nurgle things, so if you don't want to do anything fancy this should work: I keep my GS in a saucer of water after Ive rolled it. I mix it in my fingers which I keep dipping in the water, along with the putty. I work on a wooden desk and when I roll it out I first dip it in water, which goes on my desk and stops it sticking. If the water on the desk is drying out for whatever reason I just dip my fingers in the water again. :)
Madjob
· 5 months ago
A ziploc bag works. Put some of the lubricant on it so that the green stuff doesn't stick as easily and once you're done rolling always test it to see that it really isn't stuck.
fenris
· 5 months ago
Wax paper will also work. (you can also use wax paper on top of a wet paper towel to help your paint stay wet longer.
Vyper76
· 5 months ago
I've only just started working with green stuff, thank you for a very informative and helpful article. The one tip I have found is to store the excess green stuff in a kitchen towel soaked in water which keeps it soft enough once you come to use it.
Terran_Forge
· 5 months ago
Great article! Green stuff is a great epoxy and just takes practice to get good at it. Granted, I usually only use ProCreate nowadays though... Wait, lubing my ProCreate with KY? HAHAH! Brilliant!
LordBoofhead
· 5 months ago
As for Lubricant, I know a guy who swears by saliva!
Also I recomend a second project on the side. I have a small project involving mutants (origionaly for the Subs Abhuman Doctrine) in hooded cloaks that I made out of waste greenstuff from other projects so as to prevent wastage.
Kriegfreak
· 5 months ago
Love Green stuff, can't really do Forge World stuff without it. Trying to improve my skills with it. Appreciated this write up.
Yaleling
· 5 months ago
At the recommendation of a friend who is a genius with greenstuff I've started using Nivea moisturising creme. It works a treat! Creamy enough to provide good long lasting lubrication for your tools. And it is water based to so it pretty much evaporates/wipes off when you're done. I can't recommend it enough. (But that said I'll give the KY a go an see how it compares.)
I had trouble finding clay shaper brushes so I just made my own. (Most of my sculpting tools are improvised.) I just took some pencil erasers and cut them into the shapes I needed. Not real classy, but cheap and very effective.
Rahveel
· 5 months ago
I like the eraser idea, as ive been hunting for some clay shapers but no local stores cary any.
does anyone know of a company that sells clay shapers online? (prefferably in the US)
Previously I mentioned that that these come in two stiffnesses - after following this link I noticed the third or "soft" one as well. I would avoid the soft ones for Greenstuff all together as I have the "firm" and the 'extra firm" as it turns out and even the "firm" are a little too soft to be of any use with epoxies. So go with the "extra firm" for working Green Stuff and only get the others if you work with polymer clays or anything softer than that.
Da Orks
· 5 months ago
Great article, I think it takes some of that first time intimidation out of using green stuff. Thanks.
Neoraven
· 5 months ago
Good article, very brave of the writer.
Not sure if I'd have written something about using KY to stop green stuff sticking to my tool........
Arachne
· 5 months ago
Dear Psyberwolfe,
First of all thanks for the article! Secondly - where do you get those particular tools? They look great. Also ca you give links to any decent green stuff tutorial sites youve come across? I'd appreciate it.
Forhekset
· 5 months ago
Havn't read this yet but just want to say it's about time we got this article! Woohoo!
Green stuff is like the most important tool of them all, and with a huge learning curve. But I've seen whole Primarchs rendered beautifully by it.
Ed
· 5 months ago
Good article. If you buy in large amounts then I'd recommend cutting off a small strip to use and store the rest in a freezer, especially if its like GW kneadatite which comes as a combined strip as the strips will react at the intesect after a while. For reworking, softening or smoothing I'd recommend using a small amount of watered down acetone (nail polish remover works) but avoid getting it on the surface you want it to stick to. Also cured green stuff can be lightly filed to get rid of mistakes and smooth transitions.
Anon
· 5 months ago
Awesome article! I've been trying to find good sculpting tools for ages and now that I know what they're called (clay shapers) I was able to find a whole stack of sellers. Great work!
BDub
· 5 months ago
You will still probably need some wax tools and/or some picks. I don't think clay shapers alone will give you a good range of effects. But with that said, I have seen master works done in Green Stuff with nothing but fingers and a toothpick.
Menos
· 5 months ago
It's really hard to get GS in separate tubes, in the UK., like in the picture. We get the yellow-grey Milliput, which is more cement-like. I've seen ads on ebay, but they all seem to be US-based suppliers. Apart from the GW sculping tool, I got a set of 6 from wargames foundry. There is a couple of nice ones in there (all steel), and they are labelled 'wax-carving tools'.
Forhekset
· 5 months ago
Can't wait for more advanced tips/tutorials. This taught me alot though.
Previously I've just used water as lube, I don't know where I heard it from. You're right though, you have to keep dipping it to keep it wet. its abit annoying having to stop every 30 seconds.
Why would you want to wash off lube when you're just going to add more when you use it the next time?
I first used green stuff on my possessed chaos marines, to add joiners for extra limbs. The great thing about Chaos is it can be a testbed for playing with GS, as looking blobby and gross is in style, so when you suck it doesn't matter so much. Now I've moved up to adding disgusting pockmarked mutation like crap to my Nurgle aligned chaos marines, which is pretty much the same thing. Just a big blop of it and squish it around and then have at it with a pin afew hundred times to make it all lumpy and scarred.
I used to just use the flat side of my knife before I invested in the proper sculting tool. I'd love to get my hands on those rubber shapers and see what they can do, I imagine they give you a softer touch. A roller would be handy too, never thought of that. My mix ratios are even, i just break off some and smush it all together.
I havn't tried anything must people start with like hair and stuff like that, cause I'm not sure I could even do that. It's a very daunting prospect, to try modeling. I'd love to see more all about green stuff.
Pete
· 5 months ago
@forhekset
I think most people are referring to the ease of removing the lube from the models, not the tools. Otherwise the paint won't be able to stick. Same reason you need to wash mould release off forgeworld models before painting.
I must say, I'm slightly ashamed that I sniggered when psybewolfe wrote about needing lube for his tool. I'm 33 for goodness sake!
Still, I'll be looking for some of those clay shapers. I've only ever tried to use metal tools, which tend to stuff up a surface if you're not careful.
Forhekset
· 5 months ago
Oh fair enough. Don't know why I was thinking tools.
I havn't slept in 2 days, I spent like an hour writing that, falling asleep every few minutes without realising, then waking up again, but since I don't recall falling asleep I've just spent the past hour or more waking up continuously. Very strange feeling. :P
RealGenius
· 5 months ago
Hey, that KY is a good idea. I've even got some around the house. Er, wait...
BlackKnight15624
· 5 months ago
Not sure if the GF is going to be too happy about using the KY for sculpting rather than... y'know.
sex.
recscarlet
· 5 months ago
What flavor lube? JK
Thanks for "just the tip" on tools, I have been using "metal" dental tools for years, I will get the ones you suggest.
Flavored Lube makes your sculpting tools not taste so nasty if you lick them. :D
James
· 5 months ago
Great article. Expanding on your comments about working time, I've found that while it makes sense to use green stuff as soon as possible after mixing when filling gaps in a model, strengthening or pinning joints or doing small pieces of work, if you plan to make cloaks, tabards, armour plates etc. you should wait a while.
I tend to roll out the green stuff into sheets of the right thickness and then wait about 30-40 minutes before working it. It will still be flexible and can be scuplted but it's much more solid and I find it easier to do capes, plates, etc. when it's like this - anything that's meant to look quite solid and/or have a smooth finish. It might just be my clumsiness but otherwise I find I can't do a good job of sculpting these sorts of pieces.
AoM
· 5 months ago
Psyberwolfe, do you remember who taught that class? If you took it last year, there were 3 of us teaching Basics of Greenstuff and Conversions, and I'm wondering if you ended up in one of the 2 sessions I taught.
Psyberwolfe
· 5 months ago
I took sculpting weapons and accesories with Jason Wiebe at ReaperCon 07
soullessawakened
· 5 months ago
Thank you very much Psyberwolfe, much like a few other commentors here, I have always had a hard time using green stuff.
Madjob
· 5 months ago
There's a step I often see neglected in some green stuff tutorials - letting the mixed green stuff sit.
Even with a lubricant, green stuff will often stick to the wrong thing or tear while you're working with it. It can be pretty frustrating, especially for something that needs to keep it's shape like a cloak or the basic shape of a hat. The best thing to do after mixing the green stuff would be to let it sit for 15-20 minutes. It will become slightly firmer, less susceptible to tearing, but still stick well and is still shapeable.
This may not always be necessary for simple-gap filling with no extra sculpting needed, but try it out and see if it makes things any easier for you.
Lunar_Camel
· 5 months ago
Don't use saliva! May work well but the packaging doesn't say "May cause cancer" for nothing. Also, wash your hands after you use green stuff.
LordBoofhead
· 5 months ago
He spits on the green stuff, he doesn't lick it!
Any other tips you wanna add? *rolls eyes*
Lunar_Camel
· 5 months ago
Trust me. When I worked for GW, I saw some strange things go on in that store (both customers and employees).
Admiral_Drax
· 5 months ago
Brilliant post - very helpful; thanks!
[must. resist. jokes. about. lube. and. tools]
bootleg
· 5 months ago
the KY tip is great... and yes i can think of a hundred jokes to put in here but come on kiddies good tips are good tips and if there is ky on the tip well...... see how easy it was for one of those jokes to slip in there real easy...must of been the KY...ok ok i'll stop now
Engelus
· 5 months ago
oops wrong spot
DaBigNob
· 5 months ago
Have you tried using that new "Yours and Mine" lube from KY? It comes in two separate bottles, red and blue. It fully "activates" when the two colors mix. Sort of like the way green stuff works!!! It's gotta be good! :-)
Seriously though, thanks for the tips. I didn't even know about such things as those clay shaper tools. I've got a full set of sculpting tools (the set from GF9) but screw it... I completely suck at sculpting. The only thing I've ever been able to accomplish with green stuff is filling gaps between joints.
But even though I'm not any good at sculpting, I still would like to make a recommendation. It's for "GF9 Grey Stuff". I like the way it works better than the green stuff. It tends to go on smoother and is less textured and less "gritty" for lack of a better word than green stuff. Plus, it comes in two mongo sized tubes rather than the little blister pack sold by GW and was a much better deal money wise. Green Stuff seems to be the defacto standard, but I think everyone should try this Grey Stuff at least once.
All Comments
Why did he have to go to the store to get the lube?
Just a heads up.
I use this for years and it was simply great.
No Problems with filling gaps or joining parts together.
Never done me wrong.
it starts out creamy and like toothpaste, then in 10 minutes its stale cake frosting, and in 10 more its concrete.
but my point still stands, for things like cloaks and organic bits, it never has a good consistancy to work with, it goes quickly from smushy, to crumbly to solid.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f204/engelus/...
here the seat is greenstuff, and the armor plate on the front is brownstuff
Wait, lubing my ProCreate with KY? HAHAH! Brilliant!
Also I recomend a second project on the side. I have a small project involving mutants (origionaly for the Subs Abhuman Doctrine) in hooded cloaks that I made out of waste greenstuff from other projects so as to prevent wastage.
I had trouble finding clay shaper brushes so I just made my own. (Most of my sculpting tools are improvised.) I just took some pencil erasers and cut them into the shapes I needed. Not real classy, but cheap and very effective.
does anyone know of a company that sells clay shapers online? (prefferably in the US)
Not sure if I'd have written something about using KY to stop green stuff sticking to my tool........
First of all thanks for the article!
Secondly - where do you get those particular tools? They look great. Also ca you give links to any decent green stuff tutorial sites youve come across? I'd appreciate it.
Green stuff is like the most important tool of them all, and with a huge learning curve. But I've seen whole Primarchs rendered beautifully by it.
Apart from the GW sculping tool, I got a set of 6 from wargames foundry. There is a couple of nice ones in there (all steel), and they are labelled
'wax-carving tools'.
Previously I've just used water as lube, I don't know where I heard it from. You're right though, you have to keep dipping it to keep it wet. its abit annoying having to stop every 30 seconds.
Why would you want to wash off lube when you're just going to add more when you use it the next time?
I first used green stuff on my possessed chaos marines, to add joiners for extra limbs. The great thing about Chaos is it can be a testbed for playing with GS, as looking blobby and gross is in style, so when you suck it doesn't matter so much. Now I've moved up to adding disgusting pockmarked mutation like crap to my Nurgle aligned chaos marines, which is pretty much the same thing. Just a big blop of it and squish it around and then have at it with a pin afew hundred times to make it all lumpy and scarred.
I used to just use the flat side of my knife before I invested in the proper sculting tool. I'd love to get my hands on those rubber shapers and see what they can do, I imagine they give you a softer touch. A roller would be handy too, never thought of that. My mix ratios are even, i just break off some and smush it all together.
I havn't tried anything must people start with like hair and stuff like that, cause I'm not sure I could even do that. It's a very daunting prospect, to try modeling. I'd love to see more all about green stuff.
I think most people are referring to the ease of removing the lube from the models, not the tools. Otherwise the paint won't be able to stick. Same reason you need to wash mould release off forgeworld models before painting.
I must say, I'm slightly ashamed that I sniggered when psybewolfe wrote about needing lube for his tool. I'm 33 for goodness sake!
Still, I'll be looking for some of those clay shapers. I've only ever tried to use metal tools, which tend to stuff up a surface if you're not careful.
I havn't slept in 2 days, I spent like an hour writing that, falling asleep every few minutes without realising, then waking up again, but since I don't recall falling asleep I've just spent the past hour or more waking up continuously. Very strange feeling. :P
sex.
Thanks for "just the tip" on tools, I have been using "metal" dental tools for years, I will get the ones you suggest.
one kit, two giants (PIP)
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Bandit...
I tend to roll out the green stuff into sheets of the right thickness and then wait about 30-40 minutes before working it. It will still be flexible and can be scuplted but it's much more solid and I find it easier to do capes, plates, etc. when it's like this - anything that's meant to look quite solid and/or have a smooth finish. It might just be my clumsiness but otherwise I find I can't do a good job of sculpting these sorts of pieces.
Even with a lubricant, green stuff will often stick to the wrong thing or tear while you're working with it. It can be pretty frustrating, especially for something that needs to keep it's shape like a cloak or the basic shape of a hat. The best thing to do after mixing the green stuff would be to let it sit for 15-20 minutes. It will become slightly firmer, less susceptible to tearing, but still stick well and is still shapeable.
This may not always be necessary for simple-gap filling with no extra sculpting needed, but try it out and see if it makes things any easier for you.
Any other tips you wanna add? *rolls eyes*
[must. resist. jokes. about. lube. and. tools]
Seriously though, thanks for the tips. I didn't even know about such things as those clay shaper tools. I've got a full set of sculpting tools (the set from GF9) but screw it... I completely suck at sculpting. The only thing I've ever been able to accomplish with green stuff is filling gaps between joints.
But even though I'm not any good at sculpting, I still would like to make a recommendation. It's for "GF9 Grey Stuff". I like the way it works better than the green stuff. It tends to go on smoother and is less textured and less "gritty" for lack of a better word than green stuff. Plus, it comes in two mongo sized tubes rather than the little blister pack sold by GW and was a much better deal money wise. Green Stuff seems to be the defacto standard, but I think everyone should try this Grey Stuff at least once.