-
Website
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/ -
Original page
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2008/11/play-aid-adeptus-arbites-mini-dex-from.html -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
1) Ease of collecting. First and foremost when we sat down to do this, we wanted to support the existing range of Arbites minis. That meant that if there was a mini for something, it was justified and we had to find a place for it in the list. Once we had all of the existing minis covered, we branched out into new units with the specific design goal of ease of conversion.
Thus you see the bolter options for troops and the inclusion of plasma but not melta guns... (dont ask me, its GW who put them out that way). The other new units are fairly easy conversions. Marine scout headswaps will get you sharpshooters and pursuit squads. Necromunda provides several options for conversionless execution squads, and Black Maria/suppression platforms can be cobbled together fairly easily.
2) No superfluous units. While its easy to imagine large K-9 teams and horse mounted units for example, realisticaly no-one is going to make them. Its hard enough to get folks to put together IG roughriders from the very limited existing range, and further conversions for Arbites would probably be a bridge to far for most. Cyberhounds are a similar issue as you can only get 1 per $40 unit of Arbites, so it became evident fairly early that they were better used as wargear items.
3)New gameplay mechanics. We really wanted the list to play differently than other armies and wanted to really give the Arbites player a new "toolkit" with abilities and limitations unseen in other armies. Fairly early on we decided to go with a complete lack of power weapons (except for the psi-marshal's force weapon), and instead heavily push the poison mechanic. It is very rarely used in the game, and seemed a good fit. Thus power-mauls became the "powerfists" of the lists, and in tabletop use means the Arbites can often beat just about anything to death with massive wound infliction instead of the more elite armies preference for power weapon/fists that simply ignore armor. Once again it seemed a fluffy compromise and we all smiled with approval the first time we saw a full sized Shock Team take down a carnifex "the hard way" by making it take so many wounds it eventually failed its saves.
4) The Tarpit. The final piece of the army puzzle was the decision to go with a tarpit organization; that doesn't kill so much by moving out and kicking ass (like the Marines, Chaos, or Tyranids would), but by holding their ground and slowly but surely wearing opposition down. Thus you see several overlapping mechanics such as Hand of Justice, the psyker powers, Riot Tactics, Riot Grenades, Lockdown grenades, the heavy use of ignore cover weapons and no LoS weapons. The goal of all of these in whole is to make the Arbites something of a briar patch for an enemy army. This is an army that can hole up and wear you down as you approach, only to selectively counterassault and smash weakened sections of the foe.
5) Ebb and Flow. The Thin Black Line works in concert with the tarpit properties to hopefully make Arbites games nailbiters for both sides. For the Arbitrators, they are woefuly underpowered early game, but gain increasing maneuver benefits as the game grinds on, so they are fighting for time to survive. For the enemy, the clock is ticking. To win, you must act with agression and destroy the army piecemeal before it builds up strength over time with reserves. The problem is you must do it against an army designed from ground up to make an agressor's life painful.
Thats all I have, but I wanted to get a lot of your comments out before I talked about why the list works the way it does. I can only ask that you play the list. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised and may learn to enjoy walking the beat with the Judges of Men.
The old Rogue Trader Medic on Bike, could be a great sub in for a persuit unit, or even better the Rogue Trader Grenadier on bike.
To Rough Rider a unit ; rig a supperssion shield to the front of the bike like a cattle catcher.
One question; How would you go about converting a Cyber Mastif into a gun hound, and what would it do to the beasties statistics? (Is there a weaponed Cyber Skull that could be canabulized?)
I'm actually thinking Marine Scouts with Cadian heads. The new Scout Bikes would be okay too, but the Rogue Trader-era metal bikes would be even better.
Comments for the next revision:
1. Revised rules for the Chimera, Repressor, and Rhino are all in the new Imperial Armor: Volume 2 download, so you don't need references to three different books. Or if you want to leave it as it is, make sure you change the Repressor's reference from Imperial Armour II (which is the Ork and Eldar book) to Imperial Armor: Volume 2 (Marines and Inquisition).
2. Boss Farezii's entry: "PDF forces" is a redundant acronym.
3. From the description of the Arbites Sentinel as a patrol vehicle, it seems like it should have some "non-lethal" weapons options. How about the Arbites Heavy Grenade Launcher as one of the weapon options?
As for shock troops, Urban War put a range of miniatures - Junkers Convict Auxilia that with a couple weapon changes make great Suppression Shield and Shock Maul troops in Carapace Armour. Also check out their Junkers Praetorian both firing shotgun and with sword and shield.
The Junkers Convict Legionnaires come with shotgun and shield. There are also a flamethrower trooper and an assault gun (support weapon) with 2 crew. For the Cyberhounds, Darkson Designs puts out a 3 miniature pack with a WWII American dog handler and 2 German Shepherd Security Dogs called a K-9 squad and they have a German Kreighund Squad (3) which has a better looking handler - cost 9.89 = P&P for these.
The Space Marine Scouts & Scout bikers are very good, however I am looking to use the Pig Iron Heads or Chaos Marauder heads withe horns cut off.
I intend to use 1 Repressor Tank, and will get this from Forge World. I have purchased 3 sets of the Arbites Enforcer team, and some of the old Mk1 &Mk 2 Adeptus Arbites Troopers.
Just the other day I bought off some old Citadel GW Judge Dredd - Judges
miniatures off Ebay, these should make great character models. I also bought a box set of the old Space Crusade Mission Dreadnought a while back, and this gives you 3 plastic Tarantulas that can be used.
As well as the new IG Shock tropers and Cadian Storm Troopers, I could round out a 3000 point Army fairly easily.
What do you think?
1) Cyberhounds CAN be taken by the bread and butter troops choice of the army: Arbitrator teams. They are not HQ only.
2) On modifiers in general, and the "difficulty" in using some of the special rules. I would like to point out that yes indeed your Chaos Banelord titan suffers a -1 BS if it find itself within 12" of Commander Dante's apparently REALLY scary mask. Just saying :)
Riot Tactics, Hand of Justice - both are cool special rules and very appropriate against guardsmen, gangsters and the like, but against the majority of the armies in 40k it isn't at all suited. Troops like Astartes, Ork mobs, Eldar aspect warriors and the like cannot be contained like rioters can, and as Dropfall said, chaos lords and Ork warbosses do not care about Imperial justice.
I think these rules should if not rewritten be dumped. It's not like they'll have nothing left: with riot grenades all around Arbites can stand a little more in assault.
Grenade and missile launchers - I really like them. Very characteristic.
Arbites shotgun - Not a bad weapon but I feel you've failed to achieve two of the goals you set for it.
1. The executioner round is described as one to take out the toughest targets. It doesn't do that. It's become a seeker round, not an executioner.
2. You wanted the choice between rounds to be a primary skill to master. It isn't. It requires little thought to make the best choice in any given situation.
Cyberhounds - I second what random :D said: it's a pity they're only HQ wargear. The pursuit team would make excellent use of them, or a new hunt unit on foot.
Power- and shock mauls - It's a pity they don't have a similar effect to thunder hammers, but the poisoned rule works too. Until there appears a unit who's immune to poison...
Suppression shields - They work, but force field generators for Arbites troopers? They're way too valuable for that. If they weren't we'd see every Astartes walking around with one. What about something that gives... +1 armour save and an additional 6+ save in close combat?
Multi-comms - 5 pts only? The equivalent in the Codex: SM is 10 pts.
Arbitrators - Why the swap option for bolters? They're fine with shotguns. Leave the bolters to the Astartes and Sororitas. In a similar vein I'd suggest replacing those bolt pistols with las pistols.
Sharpshooters - I like them, but instead of Infiltrate I'd give them Stealth. It fits their skill at finding well concealed positions.
And a heavy bolter? The noice and flash that weapon emits would only betray the sharpshooters' position.
Special weapon options - I agree with others in criticism of some weapon options. It makes little sense to me that the grenade launcher is restricted to 10 men squads. And the plasma gun makes little sense either if the meltagun is omitted. If anything I think the Arbites would find more use for meltaguns than for plasmaguns, when blasting through fortified doors for example.
The Arbitrator team's special weapon options I'd amend to that 1 in every 5 models in the team may take a flamer, grenade launcher or heavy stubber (perhaps adding melta and plasma guns).
The pursuit team I'd do similarly (1 in every 3) and the storm team too (2 in every 5).
Black Maria - I love it. But whence it's side and rear armour of 12?
Review to come.
Creativity. That's what I think best summarizes this list. You gave me what I didn't know I wanted.. Instead of simply going the easy route and making a list that might be playable but un-interesting, you guys got quite creative, and it shows. The rules for Shock Mauls, Arbites Shotguns, Missile batteries, etc. Special rules are great too.
Beyond the gameplay aspects, I think the quotes, pictures, and story bits capture the fluff phenomenally. I don't think there's anything over S8, which, as you said, makes any armored vehicles a challenge (even if you temporarily immobilize them and run up and hit them...melta bombs, I guess), but against hordes it's a great list. 'Nids, Orks, maybe even some Eldar, Tau, and Guard lists. I think the flavor and the feel are great.
To be serious, thank you guys a whole lot. This is great.
-Andrew
The sad part is the typical price for a 2nd Edition squad hits around $15.00 a miniature on Evil-Bay. Almost a waste of time trying to amass a complete army via that route.
The cheap route is conversion of Imp Guard. Glad you guys put some mention of this in there. Thing is, the only truly "different' aspect of the Arbites are the helmets.
I love you guys! XD
When will we see the Army of Death mini-dex? :D
After a quick glance over it, I notice several quotes from BL books including Execution Hour, but apparently no mention of the Arbites patrol and relief fleets. Was this part of their background left out intentionally?
Riot Tactics and the Judge's special rule were the ones that screamed out to me.
A couple of things (not intended as criticism, when you put work of this quality out i dont really have the right to criticise) The sentinal doesnt really feel as much like a patrol vehicle as i would like it to. I did a VDR sentinal a while ago equipped with two twin linked heavy stubbers and a grenade launcher, so i agree with an earlier post that more lighter/'non-lethal' weapon options would be nice.
Also the moddeling section needs to be BIGGER. This is my favorite bit in any book i love looking at other peoples interesting conversions and army concepts but we dont a good enough look at those converted Arbites. We get a decent look at them thats for sure but more is better :). Also may i suggest a painting/conversion challenge for this dex? :D
Space Marines suffer -1Weapon Skill against Arbities!?!! No Way
Actually -1 to hit is worse than -1 WS due to the way the hit chart works, now I think about it.
DE Witch Weapons huh? I think I'll have to go find that old DE Codex and give it a look through again.
Other than that: great work! I rellay like what you guys did with this, although I too wish for a bigger conversion/paint-part. But then again, that's just minor stuff.
Riot Tactics - The rule either need to be trashed or completely re-written. Like H stated there is no way a Arbitrator is going to go toe-to-toe with the lethality of various close combat specialist that have WS4 or higher.
Arbites Bikes - How could they be equipped with twin-linked bolters and obviously the required ammo, and yet still be controlled by a non-Astartes? Wouldn't one Bolter or perhaps twin-linke Autoguns make more sense. Or no guns, after all the Pursit teams have weapons.
Grenade Launchers (both types) - Why aren't there Krak rounds? Surely they'd have some for punching through walls or destroying light vehicles. Exactly how do the Lockdown rounds work from a Fluff perspective?
Executioner Rounds - Yeah... why would I be bother firing the normal rounds... ever? The only situation where I'd fire the normal rounds is if I ended up moving within 12"... I thought these were suppose to be expensive specialised rounds
Execution Blade - How does a blade gives its user a Initiative bonus?
Shock Mauls/Power Mauls - Where'd the shock maul come from? And as far as I'm aware the Power Maul can be cranked up to the same effectiveness as a power weapon.
Hand of Justice - Silly, silly rule. I'd like to see a CSM Lord, or an Ork Warboss, baulk at the sight of a puny human in black armour.
Shock Teams - Wouldn't 'Riot Team' be a more appropriate name? And shouldn't they be armed with Power Mauls instead of Shock Mauls? I would have also allowed at least one model to be armed with a Cyberhound, Grenade Launcher, or Flamer.
The Arbites Grenade Launcher - When it comes to those units that can get it, why is it 10 man unit only weapon? Wouldn't it a more used weapon above the flamer? After all what good are cripsed people when you might want to interrogate them, firing stun or gas grenades seems more logical.
Cyberhounds - Why are the Proctors the one responsible for handling the dog? Why is there a limit of 1 per unit?
Sentinel - Weapon choices are too militaristic for what is essentially a walking cop-car. I like the weapon loadout I created for the Arbites section of my old Hive Gang Milita list, which was a Heavy Stubber or Heavy Flamer in the main weapon mounted, and Twin-linked Grenade Launcher mounted above the cockpit.
Supression Platforms - Why do they have the scouts special rule?
Repressor - The Repressor is suppose to be the Arbites main transport. Imperial Armour Volume 2, page 233, second paragraph, second sentence, and I qutote "Originally the vehicle was issued to the Adeptus Arbites for crowd suppression, equipped with a large dozer for clearing a path through rioting mobs, with a cupola mounted water cannon or grenade launcher for firing stun and gas grenades."
To me the Repressor should be the main vehicle in their armoury, not the Chimera. And any Chimeras they have should have similar population repressing weapons; a multi-laser is not one of them.
On a writing error note, the black boxed blurb for the Repressor has the who supplied who around the wrong way.
Ok, I'm brutally honest, and likely to get shouted at from some people, but you did asked for feedback, and I did see some major issues with this list.
Dropfall
As far as the execution blade, I suppose that a light, well-balanced blade might grant an initiative bonus, compared to the cleavers that most folks seem to lug around.
Shouldn't a Proctor's leadership be higher than a standard Arbitrator's?
Why is the Executioner's base initiative 4? Seems a little overkill with Execution Blades and Hand of Justice. Are they on combat drugs or are they genetically altered super ninjas?
Thanks to everyone involved; great work as always.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armyS...
Lovely models those.
Oh and Ive finished the first draft of my Iron Hands Codex im making lol- your ideas in your mini dexs have realy helped me with it
:( weep hehe.
My only problem: BS4?! As standard?!!
The police have LESS training than the Army in how to shoot. I doubt seriously that they'd actually be any better than the IG. Carapace armour strikes me as more than sufficient a bonus. BS4 seems a bit much, given they're only human (an I don't really think Sororitas should have it either to honest).
errrm... IG Veterans have BS 4, too. and the arbites have always had it. don't think of them as the two overwheight guys patrolling the neighbourhood in a squad car, they are a paramilitary elite force of divine retribution.
though i'm missing the option for 0-1 Leman Russ Executioner/Conqueror/Vanquisher.
im definately going to try it out (even if i dont go convert all the models just yet...)
I like the shotgun.. though I dont get what areacover is.. thought that was a thing of the past.. gotta read the rules again I guess.. (Ooops.. just got to the FAQ - nvm this one then)
The grenade launcher can't fire normal grenades? That's a shame I think.. and as I think Dropfall pointed out.. the grenade launcher should be one of the most used specialist weapons of the Arbites.. so why limit them to 10+ squads.. I'd say change it with the heavystubber.. one thing I wonder now is if they got access to sophisticated plasma weapons why wouldn't they have meltaguns also? would sure help them eradicate tanks..
Also as a lot of people have stated the Riot Tactics seems a bit too good.. I'd limit it to the Shock Team or change it all together into something more crowdcontrol-ish the way it is it even disables independent characters and 5 man enemy squads which isn't really Riot Tactics'ish - maybe reduce the "Who Can Fight?" distance to 1" or something.. though that'd severely hurt hordes.. too overpowered I guess (though riots are pretty much horde control also) - Im glad Im not the one making the rules ^_^ I can just complain about them.. lol =) just sharing my thoughts
well well... next thing xD - The mauls!!! They are all poisoned.. meaning a wraithlord would have to be more than frightened for those charging troop choices.. I think this is the most imba thing in the list.. and the power mauls! 2+ to wound.. ouchies.. even the c'tans and tyranid biomonstrosities should watch out for little humans clubbing them..
tanks on the other hand can just roam through the lines of the arbitrators.. given they have no real antitank weaponry only the Black Maria which I dont really like.. sorry and.. meltabombs, plasmaguns, autocannons? Why wouldn't they have heavier weaponry.. I dont get the logic here.. a lot of people seem to dislike Arbites having access to 'military' stuff.. in the novels they got all kinds of gears, and make a good use of other vehicles than repressors (@ Dropfall)
back to the mauls.. I always played with them being rending and powerweapons.. it makes the list less special but imo more logical also.. and the executioner blade being +1 I when only one unit can use them.. why bother? just add an initiative to that unit and say normal power weapons or make them useable by the characters.. they sure wouldn't mind having those..
hmm.. what's left.. the dogs, the dogs! I'd love to se them outside the HQ section.. but yeah well.. it'd be a bit too good if every squad could have one which'd boost their pursuit Initiative..
guess that's it.. I hope I haven't been too negative just my first thoughts on this dex.. overall I like it.. and I'll prolly be back when I've tested it in action..
Another more powerful version would be only one enemy may strike attacks on each arbite model. using the riot shield would effectivly shut down all attacks from at least half of the arbites frontage which would make sense.
I don't know if I like shock mauls auto wounding on a 4+/2+. It seems a bit too good to me but I will have to play test it to see.
There are three no brainer units that are missing:
1. the K-9 team. A single arbitrator with shock maul and a team of cyber mastiffs. Should work like the DE warp beast packs.
2. The Special Weapons teams. after all that is the S.W. in SWAT. This is the perfect opportunity to include limited use of meltas, rockit launchers, heavy bolters etc.
3. Armored car - two or 4 man vehicles based on the land speeder / land speeder storm, or assault bike.
Another unit I would have liked to see would be the Mounted Suppression Squad, based off something like a rough rider with a shield and maul.
Shock teams should be renamed suppression teams as this is closer to their function and modern title. Plus they are the only troops that carry the suppression shield.
The lack of traditional frag and krak grenades is a real dissappointment. Yes I get they are supposed to be non lethal but that should be an option. Nobody in the imperium is going to question the Arbiter that puts a krak grenade into the genestealer cult limo.
You are restricting the weapon choices of the arbiters too much.
Why do commanders have to replace shotgun with a power maul? shock mauls a single hand weapons, there is no need to restrict this. PLUS it is very easy to convert the 2nd ed. proctor holding the shotgun simply adding a shock maul to the pointing hand. They end up looking like the same pose as the black reach marine captain.
Why no melta gun? It comes in the necromunda enforcer pack. Arbites have access to the even more rare plasma gun. Seems like they would get melta before plasma.
I would also like to suggest some additional psychic powers as the ones currently are a little lacking:
Summary judgement -EXECUTE! 30pts The judge or marshal marks the target unit for summary execution. All hits caused upon that unit gain a re-roll to wound until the start of the next arbite turn.
Word of the Emperor - same as which hunter power.
All in all its a solid effort so far. I think it just needs a little more baking in the oven before it is fully ready to serve the pie of justice./tick voice off
Other stuff, hit or miss.
'Trooper, there is only one riot.'
love it!
I know this isnt stricly on topic- but how many pts would you say it would take to give a unit feel no pain? I know your a veteran of this sort of stuff, and weve had suggestions for our codex were making from 10-40 lol
Any help would be greatly appreciated
That is roughly the difference between a space marine and a necron warrior who essentially has a slightly weaker FNP rule.
Im talking about a space marine here so 5pts Il try out first
Did you consider giving the execution teams access to breaching charges? I could envision them as more versatile as the mission warranted.
Just to nitpick: the "obfuscate" power. Some might argue that if you have to take a difficult terrain roll to assault, then that means you count as "in cover" with this power in the ensuing assault. Might want to clarify?
I like the rules, yes riot tactics seems a little weird but some of the ideas others suggested seem good, like limiting it to where the enemy unit must number a certain amount of models (although I think it would be better if it was limited to if the enemy outnumbers the unit) or make it -1" to be in range to attack. I'd say -1" instead of 1" because hormagaunts with the leaping rule can attack if within 3" so with that rule it should be 2" instead but either way maybe have it so it doesn't work on independent characters and maybe even monstrous creatures get a bonus? Just thinking of riot tactics in real life, you'd basically be lining up and denying the enemy advantage of numbers, well if the enemy is a huge carnifex that means your lined up and ready to get taken out by the dozens. Would also mean MC's aren't too nerfed against their shock mauls.
The hand of justice rule does seem a little unfluffy making people taking pinning tests or leadership test if within range would be better as some units will be immune.
The shotgun rules are nice, I wouldn't change them and for those who ask why ever shoot the first round, well how about the extra shot and no minimum range? Although I must say in my basic squads I will be swapping them out for bolters.
The shock maul seems good, using electricity to wound things means that you can wound bigger things as it attacks the nervous system. Originally I was thinking the power maul should be the same 4+ to wound but count as a power weapon but I think that would make it a little too powerful so the 2+ to wound seems better.
Seems great! I really want to play test them as is and see how it all works out. Are there going to be any updates to this mini-dex?
Who doesn't want a Judge Dredd army! Too many projects ...
Riot Tactics rule for -1 to hit seems fitting as if I am understanding this correctly its only in affect if the unit is fighting more then one unit (aka they are putting their shields in the way to protect them while they go after the unit they are attacking)
Do have to say that the Black Maria should have rear armour 10 there are only three vehicles out there that have higher rear armour and why should this chermia veriant have better armour then the rest ?
Units Inbound. love the fluf behind this but what should be done is just to make it outflanking rule.
Arbites Grenade Launcher the limits you guys imposed on how the squads get these make seance as they are nasty and it gives them a down side (you got to get 10 guys to get them)
Hand of Justice:: make it a LD test for units to be affected by this.. Choas and Marines are not going to be cowed as quickly as that of say an ork.
PSI-MARSHAL would make them LD8.
Execution blade Like the idea behind this; fluf ??? well balanced power weapons so easier to use in close confines ?
So what's next????
I love you mini dex's the artwork and writing are flaweless! the only down side i find is some of the conversions and paintjobs on them let the article down a little (still great as inspiration for people to get started which i know is the point).
I am by no means a GD painter or anywhere near but would love the chance (i am sure there would be plenty other better options from other people) to convert and paint up some figs just to round off the dex as a whole.
Keep up the fantastic work!
Rob
Also, in the Arbite novels, they make use of some kind of robotic eagles to catch and bring back criminals - forgotten the name, but they were such an awesome image I'm sorry they weren't in the book.
It may sound a bit negative, I guess I just want to have my cake and eat it, as well as some other people's cakes. It is a great book, obviously lots of effort put in, but I reckon future versions will be even better!
Future versions of anything are entirely unlikely to take into account the unfounded negative comments of anyone, or even comments with some foundation but no effort towards resolution.
I, and several other people would have liked to see horse-mounted and K-9 units. It is a shame they are not part of this codex, as that would have made it almost perfect in my eyes. I guess I will have to invent some rules for them myself.
I realise there is a lot of balancing involved in these projects, and if K-9 units had been left out because they unbalanced the list, I would have understood. To say they were not included just because GW don't sell them in easily availible quantities just... didn't feel like a good enough reason to me.
Shame I alreadu have way too many different projects and insufficient time for those as it is, otherwise I'd immediately jump on these guys. At the very least I'll be trying my hand at converting 2-3 arbites from cadians. I have the bits and it will make for a very nice side-project to try out between all the other stuff going on in my life.
So great job and keep them coming ;-)
That said some of the replys also add intresting idea's to this work. If I could write as well as the FlyLord's and I wanted Cyber-eagle's youcan be sure I would add them to this page. However all I seem to be able to do is imagine different minitures, very slightly modified, as befitting my level of skill at kitbashing, as possible choices for other posters wants.
Now the only thing I would (other than an hour to pick BigRed's, or any of the other BoLS peoples, barins) is an Idea on what to use to create a Gun-hound, and of course the stats to go with it. But I am intrested in what others would also want to see added to this.
Anyway, enough rambelling.
Thanks for all your work, keep them comming.
First off, the layout is great, and GW really needs to go back to this style. The current business of "Fluff and some rules" followed 45 pages later by "the rest of the rules" is a mess. You guys definitely are demonstrating how it should be done!
Fluff wise, I am not certain that I really understand just what these fellows do. I don't know much of their fluff from the BL books, only the slight reference to them in the Eisenhorn series and the fact that WH Storm Troopers can take shotguns to represent Arbites. So, given my void of knowledge, I still feel a little lost as to just what these guys are and how they fit in. Somewhere between beat cops, SWAT teams and serious riot police like they have in bigger cities, but just where I am still a little fuzzy. It isn't bad writing mind you, just that I am not entirely certain how the Arbites fit in with the Inquisition, regional governors and system governors. That might just be because I am having trouble coming up with a real world analogue.
Rules wise, it looks like a really interesting army to build. The Hand of Justice rule sits a little off for me, but other than rerolling LD checks or perhaps all supression shields within 6" grant a 3+ inv instead of 4+, I don't know how to fix it. I do like the Riot Tactics ability though, since a solid shield wall really does wonders for making those behind it impossible to hit.
I am a little worried that the only way to really kill tanks is the Black Maria and the occaisional melta bombs, but until I play I won't really know. What worries me is that one will be forced to use a LOT of Black Marias to have a solid defense against tanks that like to sit back and shoot. Not that it isn't fluffy as all get out, but if one were to take this army to a local tournament which considers your 'dexs "official enough" it would be required to break fluff a bit to compete. Or not. I haven't played it enough to know yet :)
I would also like to see K-9 units, and the like, if you guys do an update. I intend to use a lot of non-GW figures if I make some of these boys for allies anyway, so please don't limit yourselves on that :)
As a side note for modeling, I think SM Scouts with Pig Iron heads make excellent Arbites. I made 3 for an Inq retinue and they are quite pleasing to me.
Repressor Entry - It says to see IA II (IA Volume 2, actually, I think someone pointed out). The IA entry has its armour and BS state.
However, the Minidex entry states the price as 50pts, and the Flamer is 10pts, and the extra armor is 15pts. The new FW Errate for the Repressor states the cost as 50pts WITH the Flamer, and extra armor as 5pts. Should I use the new Errata, or did you guys already consider that and change the points cost intentionally?
Just treat those 3 Repressor options as a complete replacement for the 6 options listed in the errata. We had to change them out to reflect the Arbites use of the vehicle instead of the default Ministorum options.
You are correct that the Repressor comes with the pintlemounted heavy flamer included in the 50pt base cost. The +10 pintlemounted flamer option is for an additional pintle mounted weapon.
Finally stick with the +15 pts for the extra armor. That is the "going price" for it these days, and I would not be surprized to find that the 5 pt cost is a Forgeworld typo.
The idea of a Repressor with a Storm bolter and Pintle Flamers, plus 10 points for a 2nd Pintle flamer is exciting! Add in 3 Executioner shots (or 6 normal slugs) and a heavy Stubber fired from the top hatch, and you've got quite a substantial salvo coming out of one of these. Simply devastating against light infantry.
1 - Change the gren launcher to the "5-squad" option. It is the single most commonly available special weapon, and the list should reflect it. Feel free to bump the flamer to the large squad option, so that people still have a "2 assault" or "2 heavy" combo.
2 - I would suggest proctors retain the ability to get a shock maul without giving up their shotguns. There is NO WAY to remove the shotgun off of the proctor model, so don't expect anyone to get rid of them unless they are kitbashing up their own fully custom proctor.
3 - Good work with dogs, they are fluffy and not ridiculously powerful. You may want to just call the dogs (and psyber eagles, equivalently) like inquisitor familiars that give I+1 to the character if they are purchased.
4 - Heavy gren is no better than basic gren, which seems pretty silly. Make it LARGE blast for Stumm gas, and improve the lockdown to a 4+ instead of 5+ (the same as the regular gren). With those two upgrades, they might be worth taking over the universally less expensive weapon options. Make them worth at least considering! Besides, as an artillery piece, it can now be defended that a Thudd gun model is a heavy grenade launcher artillery piece. When the heavy gren sucks as many hind teats as present, it really isn't a defensible description of a beautiful (and fairly widely owned) model.
5 - As for rough riders, it isn't much of a stretch to make rules for them for folks that are interested in doing the modeling work. Use regular carapace riders without the lance option, and pay +2 points a model to upgrade their lp+cc to BS4 bolt pistol and shock maul. Force one of the models to be a proctor for 5 points, and the Ld8 difference will be irrelevant compared to the IG versions. They will be pretty fairly costed for their effectiveness.
6 - Personally I will be creating rules for penitents, but they will be pretty easy to create thanks to the unwashed cultists of the Genestealer cult lists. Add a proctor and we're off the races.
7 - Still not sure about the -1 to hit vs. close combat -1" kill zone range idea. I will playtest these options and report my findings here. These are both interesting ideas. . . Another option is to just say opponents with WS3 or worse must reroll successful hits. No modifiers, and it keeps it simple as an anti-mob ability rather than an anti-elite ability.
RTM
Let me go through a few of these and tell you what we found in playtest.
1) The grenade launcher is by far the most flexible special weapon option and we had to limit it to the upper tier and make players decide between it and the plasma to even make the others options viable. When we allowed 2x grenade launchers per squad, they just murdered the opposition, as the gas shell works very well in concert with executioner rounds on approaching enemies.
2) There is a caped proctor model with a boltpistol and maul available from the necromunda range. You can see it in the top and bottom left-page pics in the modeling section.
3) The playtesters liked the rules as well which are designed to emphasize the Units Inbound mechanic. It further hampers an enemy's ability to "sneak up" on the Arbites on thier home turf. I can see players who can't access the dog models using eagles, servo-skulls and the like as standins.
4)The heavy grenade launcher gives you an extra 12" of range and it's gas shell is poison 3+ instead of the handheld version's poison 4+. We ended up with equalizing all lockdown shells ability to a 5+ for 2 reasons. First you can get quite a few in the army if you push chimera's and support platforms. With a large number of them and a 4+ lockdown effect, we found that enemy mechanized armies got shut down entirely. At 5+, the Arbites player can use them to harrass and slow an enemies advance in a piecemeal fashion but must be prepared to jump on opportunities to ambush isolated squads quickly. The army overall is very good on defense so the main advantage of the HGL is is gives you an extra turn of slowing an enemy due to its range.
5) My issue with the riders is both difficulty of modelling and unit duplication. The list currently contains a unit to fill the speed role: bike mounted Pursuit Teams. Riders would fill a "halfway" space between the infantry Arbitrators and the faster (turbo-boosting) bikes, and crowd an already full fast attack section.
6) Penetents were looked at but early on for style reasons we wanted to list to be a pure Arbites force. We didn't want to "muddy" the focused anti-horde list by adding horde elements into it.
7) I suggest you try out riot tactics. Its a really easy mechanic to get your head around and makes a decent impact without to much math involved. In the end several mechanics were tried to help the army meet our design goal of being able to "take a punch above their weight" and its the one we settled on.
Once again, thanks so much for the feedback.
Maybe it could be changed to a sort of Shield Wall ability for the Shock Teams (or add it). Make it the same as IG close order drill (+1I, +1Ld if all in base-to-base).
Really liked it - not least the 'Annie Get Your Gun' references. But please - can someone put me out of my misery? I can't for the life of me find anything explaining the rules for 'poison' weapons. Even if I'm just being thick, please help me!
Oh, and I'm suddenly VERY glad I got the squad of nicely converted Arbites bikers off ebay 5 years ago...!
- Drax.
And keep up the good work.
- Drax
Haven't really put together a list and tested it since last time.. takes time xD and I like playing with models not being too much 'count as' so it'll prolly take a lil while, but I like preparing stuff and looking at different ways to build the list before actually trying it..
But well there's some minor things that's occured to me..
The arbites are a pretty scary force in close combat.. with 2 judges the enemy would be at -2 I, meaning standard arbites strike before marines and at same time as most eldar, on top they got riot tactics so all enemies have a harder time hitting them and defensive grenades so there's not so much fun charging them =P they also got 2 attacks each with weapons that are ultimately better than standard ccw's (unless fighting grots, in which case you'd just opt not to use them anyway) and finally you can add a single hound in each squad that greatly helps them with their sweeping advances.. ouchies ;)
So well I'd suggest making the judge a 0-1 or simply make the special rule 'not cumulative' I know it's minor stuff, but guess that's needed aswell - haven't got a problem with the other parts, arbites need a lil hand I think, as they dont have any super specialists.
I really think there should be some other way to field str8+ ranged weapons than the Black Maria also.. (on a side-note about the Maria is it intended that 2 models can fire from the hatch being exactly same size as the Chimeras?)
Oh.. and plastic bottles work nicely for making extra suppresion shields.. I got so disappointed when I only got 1!! shield for every 7 enforcers I bought..
Also have to apologize about complaining about the hounds not being fieldable outside the HQ.. my fault
not the most constructive comment I know but I'll be back if I find anything else =) I like the list just need to figure out what Im gonna do with it..
Sorry to see no cavalry, but oh well.
Suggestions:
Another cop genre that could get touched on would be patrolmen in a souped up police interceptor. Nominally a 2 seater fast attack, with one heavy weapon, but it could also transport 5 figs (driver, gunner, and 3 in the back seat). Works for a lot of different character homages. Imagine a "V-Hayte Interceptor" driven by... oh lets call him "Judge Gibson", or judges Jake and Elwood, or Judge Ness.
Addtn'l Modelling options:
The Disney Cars Megablok vehicles are darn close to 40K scale (I'm actually making some Ork buggies out of them - very Roadwarrior). Might be good fodder for the unit described above.
Another APC type vehicle option is one of the Tranformer animated Bulkead figures. There are several different sizes, and I can't remember the exact name of the specific version, but it costs about $10.00, and only the back/top pops open. It's the perfect size and look for an Arbite APC.
Still think a special Cityfight Strategem for Arbites is also in order.
Also think some type of quick deployable barricades (concertina wire, Jersey blocks) would be appropriate.
Thanks again for doing your thing.
but just wanted clarifacation. Great job by the way
Rather than use and expand on the only set of OFFICIAL RULES to make a true army list, you have completely made this an unusable fan list.
While this is packaged very nicely and I'm sure had some playtesting, this list is of no more use to me than any other fan made list. There isn't even a kernel of compatibility with what was in chapter approved that would allow me to justify asking someone to let me play it..
I can see why this 'dex was needed.
I think 40K needs an entire "Codex Imperialus" like in 2nd Edition to cover all of the different imperial forces beyond IG and SM. Everything from Arbites to Adeptus Astra Telepathica, from Adeptus Mechanicus to Assassins (which really aren't part of the inquisition, no matter what anyone else tells you) I just wish you had stuck a little closer to home.
And BTW, why no Webguns or Heavy Webbers?
As for official rules, the old ones are SOOOO out of date that they aren't really worth playing, so the only real official tourny set is the witch hunters "counts as' equivalent. As a rules set, there is no significant difference between using fan materials and playing a true counts as unless you are playing in a very strict tournament setting. Where we play, a BoLS apocalypse formation is just as legal as any GW one, same true with mini-dexes. I, for one, am glad to see the modernization of the rules set, and look forward to many years of playtesting.
As for the Codex Imperialus idea, hell yeah we need one of those. We have all been waiting a while.
RTM
As for the rest, really well done. My only suggestion is to allow lascannons on the Sentinels as at this point there is nothing in this army that can kill a landraider or a monolith at all. Just for some balance issues. As noted they are the Federal Marshalls of 40k, but also as noted they are used as PDF in the last ditch.... they should have access to them.
http://www.scotiagrendel.com/void_junkers.html
http://www.scotiagrendel.com/11202_Legionary_Se...
http://www.scotiagrendel.com/void_junkers_2.html
(as of 1/11/09)
I do have several things to say about it though!
I am an former police officer also.
1. All of the comments about mounted units (horse types).
a. almost all countries don't use them for riot work.
b. While they are great for unarmed or mostly unarmed riot work againest rioters that really don't want to damage things to much, againest ARMED rioters they suck! No one wants 1 ton plus of wounded horse anywhere near them in a riot let alone in combat. I know for dam sure I don't!
c. the frigging cost of keeping them is very high for the use you will get out of them.
d. Remember what happens to horses when there are machine guns around? Do I need to say "great big targets!" or WW1!
Since this force is a highly trained empire wide like Sisters it should be a cut above normal cops. The access to heavier weapons and the like is nicely shown! I would like to see more heavy stubbers and maybe meltaguns instead of plasmaguns and maybe riot vehicle instead of the repressor for them, but overall I like this list and I plan to make an army based on this soon! Thanks!
This is the experimental profil for the Water Cannon (remenber the BS is 4 for Arbites).
Range STR AP Special
Hellstorm 8* - Pushed away, Push away damage, Against
the water, Harmless to vehicles
* Only for strength checks
Special:
Pushed away: Every model hit by the water blast must make a strength check
(weapon strength against model strength). If the check fail the model
is moved 1W6+2 inch away (in line of the blast).
Push away damage: If a model crash into an other model or terrain it suffers one
(1) hit. Models hit by a moved model suffers a hit too. The
strength of the hit depends on the masses of crashed things.
Ligth (STR 2): barrels, unarmored and ligth troops and so on
Medium (STR 4): Power armor, carapace armor, Orks ...
Heavy (STR 6): Hard Walls, Terminator armor, Bikes ...
Against the water: All models hit by the blast must make a pinning check. Models
pushed away or hit by those are pinned automatic (so it could be
that only a few members of the unit are ready to act). If they pass
the test they can act normal but they move like they where in
difficult terrain. For shooting they count as moved and decrease
their BS by one (1) to a minimum of BS 1 (It`s hard to fire if you
are in a water burst).
Harmless to vehicles: The Water Cannon has no effect against vehicles (exept
Bikes)
This is all. I think its a nice tank and the cost of points for this (potential) nonlethal tank should be the same as for the Hellhound (115 points). Sorry I could test this tank in a real battle until now so its only an experimantal vehicle and just for fun.
(Sorry guys my English is not the best and I dont`t know the exact English 40K terms
but I hope you could unterstand what I mean)
Range STR AP Special
Hellstorm 8* - Pushed away, Push away damage, Against the
Water, Harmless to vehicles
This is the experimental profil for the Water Cannon (remenber the BS is 4 for Arbites).
Range STR AP Special
Hellstorm 8* - Pushed away, Push away damage, Against
the water, Harmless to vehicles
* Only for strength checks
Special:
Pushed away: Every model hit by the water blast must make a strength check
(weapon strength against model strength). If the check fail the model
is moved 1W6+2 inch away (in line of the blast).
Push away damage: If a model crash into an other model or terrain it suffers one
(1) hit. Models hit by a moved model suffers a hit too. The
strength of the hit depends on the masses of crashed things.
Ligth (STR 2): barrels, unarmored and ligth troops and so on
Medium (STR 4): Power armor, carapace armor, Orks ...
Heavy (STR 6): Hard Walls, Terminator armor, Bikes ...
Against the water: All models hit by the blast must make a pinning check. Models
pushed away or hit by those are pinned automatic (so it could be
that only a few members of the unit are ready to act). If they pass
the test they can act normal but they move like they where in
difficult terrain. For shooting they count as moved and decrease
their BS by one (1) to a minimum of BS 1 (It`s hard to fire if you
are in a water burst).
Harmless to vehicles: The Water Cannon has no effect against vehicles (exept
Bikes)
This is all. I think its a nice tank and the cost of points for this (potential) nonlethal tank should be the same as for the Hellhound (115 points). Sorry I could test this tank in a real battle until now so its only an experimantal vehicle and just for fun.
(Sorry guys my English is not the best and I dont`t know the exact English 40K terms
but I hope you could unterstand what I mean)
Hand of Justice: enemy units taking a leadership test within 12" of the Judge must re-roll successful attempt.
Riot Tactics, m ay reroll failed hits.
Is the ignore cover on the gas grenades even worth mentioning since it is AP-. Just about every unit will be taking armour save. If you are wanting to ignore armour saves, it at least needs to be ap6 for ti to have any value at all.
I'm quite tempted to get together a few boxes of SM scoutd as they will make the best conversions IMO. Put a cadian head on the body and bobs your uncle. SM scouts cover all the bases for troops whilst the scout bikers will be excellent models to use.
This is looking like a very interesting list, its just a shame i rearely fight horde armies
I am really tempted start an arbites army. I'm wanting to do a renegade IG so i'm gonna have a few bitz left over from that. I am tempted to just usethe FW exorcist for a Black Maria as a chimera and a whirlwind might cost the same
The trick will be getting a heavy bolter mounted to the front, or somewhere. I'll have to work on that.
The Maria is awesome looking though the rules on it are a little clunky. It might have been pretty cool if it had been a regular missile that fired d3 shots, so d3 blast templates or d3 krak missiles. Giving it armor pin and crowd control.
The right up and fluff is awesome.
The art however is still lacking it just does not have the fill of 40K, it looks like it belongs in DP9 or some other semi manga oriented book. Which honestly makes it hard to get into it. The one thing that inspires me and my friends when we flip through the codex's is the artwork. Like me my friends here feel the same way. Like the Macharian Crusade everything was awesome except for the art being less than inspiring. Which left us going this is pretty cool and thats about it.
Keep up the great work.
and as tempting as it is i dont think im gonna start an arbites army soon therefore i do have to ask where and when my army of death codex is comeing, or did you guys drop that project.