This sounds like a solid game. I think I am going to have to pick up the rulebook. I always like the look of the minis in White Dwarf. Now I may have an excuse to paint some up!
chris
· 8 months ago
I will be showing up at my FLGS the day this comes out, because I can see the massive stack they said they will be ordering going out the door like rounds from a heavy stubber. My most sincere hope is that the design theory behind this game makes is way into Warhammer 40,000. That would be the best of all possible outcomes.
Schmapdi
· 8 months ago
That's what I was thinking as I read the review.
I hope alot of the simple, easy, fun, non-adversial creep into the next Warhammer/40k upgrades.
It sounds like a game I might actually like to play (as oppose to just paint).
LordSandwich
· 8 months ago
I'm really excited about this game. So far it actually sounds *gasp* balanced. I'll definitely be checking it out.
NallTWD
· 8 months ago
I really hope folks can get over the ridiculous butthurt they have over this game being for kids, was never developed, its a waste of GW time and effort, etc.
Play it. Play it against someone who knows it in and out. Get your butt whipped into a pulp by a real vet and you'll see how tactical it can be.
Anon
· 8 months ago
I don't see how rolling each turn to see who goes first is very tactical. It seems a little too Vegas for my tastes.
Multani
· 8 months ago
There are ways to break turn sequence. Heros and captains can use might to call heroic actions to act before your opponent. Conservation of this might, which has a few other uses as well, is part of the strategy.
ThePrecious
· 8 months ago
That's weird. I posted a response to this, but all of my posts have disappeared.
Weird.
ThePrecious
· 8 months ago
Actually, this is one of the best parts of the LOTR/WOTR game.
You really have to think about "What if my opponent gets the initiative? What then?" You need to have a hero around for a "Heroic Move", and the rest of the plan.
Not at all like 40k, where the ONLY chance to get the initiative order changed is with a "6" at the beginning of the game.
abwoopwoop2
· 7 months ago
been playing SBG since their strategy battle game sin middle earth...i look forward to using my hundreds of goblins, uruks, orcs, MTs and Rohirim...SBG is a good game, never understood why people said it was bad...Anyway, WOTR'll show them what they've been missing
Massawyrm
· 8 months ago
Man, whoever painted those armies should be commended! They look incredible! Especially the Warg Riders. So evocative of the film!
Ahem.
This game rocks my socks off. Has had me painting in all my free time, surfing ebay, raiding my Christmas money and trading my shorts off on Bartertown. I cannot get enough of these minis and can't wait till everyone else gets their books so I can have a steady stream of opponents. Really fun, really bloody and very cinematic. You guys are gonna dig it.
JayCop
· 8 months ago
7th pic: Those are Knights of Minas Tirith, not Riders of Rohan ;)
As a longtime LoTR player I really like the fact that I don't have to start with Warhamer Fantasy to join some mass battles on my LGC's gaming tables!
xarius
· 8 months ago
game is fantastic, i have always played all 3 systems but this is much much smother than all of them, just 2 things
1) Khamul's rules are sooooooo broken, they are way too good, his 5+ you killed yourself (in combat) is cheesy), i will along with y staffer friend, be chasing matt ward around gamesday with sticks!
2) not to be picky but your 'damaged' formation bit is wrong-ish, you are really supposed to take models from the back rank of the furthest away unit from combat
all in all a great game though!
Joe Wright
· 8 months ago
This makes me very happy. Hopefully Bigred's 4/5 rating will at least minimize some of the needless bashing that goes on.
The game's not for everyone that is for sure, but its for everyone that enjoys a tight rule set, strategy and telling a good story.
I've had a chance to play many games with this system, and I love it to pieces. Yes, to pieces.
hrudboy
· 8 months ago
"The game's not for everyone that is for sure, but its for everyone that enjoys a tight rule set, strategy and telling a good story."
I see your point about the tight rules set and strategy - this seems incredibly strong in both those areas and I echoe the sentiments of those who hope for a similar approach in 40k. But the storytelling aspect is what's always put me off the Lord of the Rings games. I love a good story and I love Lord of the Rings, but however you approach these games you're either re-enacting parts of the story already told or playing out events that never happened in the books and are likely to contradict the source material. I wish I could get around this, really, cos the game sounds great
Joe Wright
· 8 months ago
Well, that is kind of the beauty of SBG and War; you don't have to if you don't want to. Middle Earth is a big place, and there is plenty of opportunity for the forces of good and evil to clash.
I mean, just the other day, I had a battle involving morannon (heavily armored orcs) against arnor and gondor armies, and my army was led by the Mouth of Sauron.
Never happened in the source material, but damn me it was fun!
Angelic_Despot
· 8 months ago
There are two ways around this I think:
One is to play 'counter-factual'. Pick a story event and assume that it something different happened. And then work out with your opponents what would likely have happened then. That will give you a lot of fun opportunities. For example: Borromir wins the arguement, and the Fellowship decide to go south, around the Misty Mountains, through the gap or Rohan and Saruman's territory instead of through Moria. That could have changed everything. Yout then just have to work out interesting scenarios to play.
You could also do this at the height of the war: Assume Gollum captured the ring from Frodo some time while they were going through the marshes. No-one else knows this. Gollum runs away and hides. There are still going to be a lot of big battles, and the outcome is not going to be certain at all.
The other way is to pick a time after the Lord of the Rings. Say, 60 years after the Return of the King, one of the other 'nameless horrors' in the depths of the world raises an army, manufactures some orcs etc.
I really do know what you mean about being put off by the story. But with a bit of effort, you can create a whole new story to tell, and battles to fight.
intellectawe
· 8 months ago
Eh, I am just not a fan of the Tolkien settings. Never was really. Perhaps if I read the books when I was young like most folks around here, I would have a soft spot for the fantasy setting in the lord of the rings. But to my eye, all the 'evil' armies look the same and so does the 'good' armies. Part of why I never got into LotR TT in the first place.
Someone mentioned 'get your butt whooped by vets' earlier in this thread about this game. How long has this game been out? I didn't know it was out long enough for vets of War of the Rings to even exist. lol!
NN
· 8 months ago
It may be just me, but somehow I get the feeling that that comment was aimed at the LotR SBG haters out there and not the WotR ones.
intellectawe
· 8 months ago
I can see what you mean.
But thats still doesn't make them a vet. So what? They were playing one game for 8 years, that doesn't make them a pro at another game lol.
Yeah I am a vet at RT, 2nd, 3rd and 4th, but I have no clue wtf is going in 5th lol.
Hephesto
· 8 months ago
Superb, waiting for my pre-ordered rulebook right now. Sounds like it turned out quite fun and balanced. This should be fantastic addition to the LotR game-range, especially for all those who have been around since the early days. We have orcs, uruks and elves enough to fill up khazed-dum twice ;-)
Really pleased with the new minis as well, both the army of the dead and the ent kits are quite striking. Same goes for the new command blisters. The large movement bases are also ideal for displaying 40k minis.
davetaylor
· 8 months ago
This game is great for all the reasons described by bigred and backed up by a number of the posters who have played a game or two.
Another, more subtle, reason this game is great is that it is a great statement about GW being a "miniatures company" rather than a "game company". GW has said this all along, but many punters have chosen to ignore that. This new game (that plays beautifully and with a great scope) doesn't require a new range of miniatures in new packaging with a new set of POS. It is a great mechanism for selling more miniatures without making any new ones. This is a good thing!
The suggestions that WoTR could lead to new developments in 40K and Warhammer is an interesting one. I like to think that the release of this second game for the same miniatures line could lead to other games in the same universes that use the existing line of 40K or Warhammer miniatures. Kill Teams or Combat Patrol need not be an adaptation of the 40K rules anymore. They could be their own rule sets. That would also be a great thing!
I'm looking forward to throwing down with my gallant defenders of the Free Peoples very soon! Bring on the War of The Ring!
Cheers Dave
Dictator93
· 8 months ago
Dave, the idea of GW using new rule types for combbat patrol and kill team excites me. Seriously! I would love that!
Forhekset
· 8 months ago
Well, we had Epic, BFG and others before, so it's not like they havn't already been there and done that and given up.
Dictator93
· 8 months ago
It is good to see this looks like a real success. A semi-ballsy move from GW. I think I will play a demo game or two at my local GW.
JL
· 8 months ago
The game is great, I played it in store and can't wait to pick it up. I am going to use it as a segway to get some people into table top gaming ad then get them playing 40k.
Herald of Nurgle
· 8 months ago
Finished paying off my reservation at the local store Quite looking forward to it - my mumaks will block out the sun!
no_to_co
· 8 months ago
This looks very exciting. I will probably trade all my unpainted fantasy stuff for this. Do you guys know if there are any forums, blogs or websites that follow this? I am especially interested in painting advice and battle reports.
ThePrecious
· 8 months ago
The best LOTR forums that have survived the years are:
Both will offer excellent LOTR/WOTR advice and tips.
no_to_co
· 8 months ago
Thank you. I priced out to see how much a 2000 points army would run and it's at least $350 to $400. Ouch! Yes, the plastic rank and file models are around $1.25 each, but the metal command and character models run from $5 to $15. Still, this is somewhat doable.
Is also a really good place. Very friendly and helpful forums and lots of good painting and modelling guides.
LEGION3000
· 8 months ago
I second Thelastilliance.com Great website that I have been visiting since the beginning.
Herbalicious
· 8 months ago
Um, yeah, that's not it.
one-ring.co.uk is the site you are thinking of.
bill&ted
· 8 months ago
Once again - one-ring.co.uk
Angelic_Despot
· 8 months ago
"a once in decade opportunity to start a new core game from scratch, with a clean slate. The results are impressive."
"you get EVERY ARMY in the game in the core book. You just buy this one book, and add minis."
For me; these are the two most important things about this game. I love the setting, and I love the 40K setting. But I get really tired of ropey rules.
Having the game developed almost from the ground up (there are clear influences from the SBG - which is a good game, just not for massed combats), and most importantly; having tested the game rules with all of the troops and armes avoids the major problem that has always aflicted 40K: constantly changing rules.
Even when the 40K core rules stay stable for a while, they are constantly being affected by new codices. Some have a bigger impact on the game than the others, but the overall effect is to cause rules chaos: hardly anyone knows all the rules, and recent developments seriously unbalance previously written rules / army choices.
I've only played this new game once, and watched a couple of other games. But as with the SBG; you really have to give it a go. You watch it, or read the rules and think 'this is so simple, where is the strategy?' But you play it; and then you see. You don't worry about nuts and bolts of rules, you _just_ have to worry about strategy.
I've seen people ask several times about the random turn element and ask where the strategy is in that. The answer is not just in might points giving you options to over-ride the turn sequence. The answer is partly that this _is_ where the stragey comes in. As in battle, not everything is guaranteed. You have to plan for multiple eventualites. You have to try to stack up the odds in your favour, but you can never guarantee that things will go the way you hope.
Something that strikes me as odd about games like 40K is you can have units moving into the open on one turn 100% confident that they will not be shot because the game is about to end. Or they can leave cover within charge range 100% certain that they will not be shot before they reach their opponents. This strikes me as playing to the rules of the game, rather than to the feel of the game. Nothing in war is that certain. You can maneovre well and minimise the chances of being shot. You should never be in a position of _knowing_ that you will not be shot simply because 'it's my turn next'.
The WotR rules seem very playable. I'm really looking forward to this game's general release, and I really hope lots of people give it a try.
Brother Armand
· 8 months ago
Anybody have a clue if the forces of Lamedon are represented at all would they just be lumped in as generic Gondor/Arnor?
Rob
· 8 months ago
Don't worry they're in there under the realm of Gondor, and holy crap are they good. They're basically knights with lances, but on foot, lol.
Desert Rat
· 8 months ago
Lamedom is classed under the fiefdoms in SBG, and so pretty much under Gondor. Haven't seen the WOTR book though, so I'd assume with quite a bit of certainty that they'd be grouped with Gondor.
abwoopwoop2
· 7 months ago
they are grouped in. Rare formation, but turns into legendary with angbor in it. Seems pretty good value for two handed weapons and furious charge, at 30/per company...
Crisis_Core
· 8 months ago
This game looks absolutely amazing, and I'm glad I decided to stay with LOTR:SBG from the beginning because it's really worth seeing the impact that it'll now have on the GW gaming community.
The great thing about WOTR is that now none of the WOTR players have an excuse to not try out SBG - they have all the mini's they need to play! Get the main rulebook, a supplement for the race your playing in WOTR, and perhaps Legions and your set!
Once again, there are some fantastic LOTR sites out there at the moment:
one-ring.co.uk - the site has been revamped and is looking better than ever, and has added a WOTR sub-forum to cater to all you WOTR players. It has an excellent community, not to mention an awesome painting compeition, and a huge amount of articles for gaming, terrain, and painting.
thelastalliance.com - been there since the start, not much has changed round there though, no WOTR section yet, but some useful info there all the same.
wobin
· 8 months ago
I went to my local store today. Talked to a few chaps about war of the ring. This game looks really good. I never delved into LoTR miniatures before but i really want to now!
It is really cool that you can pick a force and can have 25%(?) of allies. That means that if there are some models you like you can take them in your army even if they are mordor instead of isenguard or whatever. That, and the everything in the one book makes this game a very appealing option. Throw in fast and exciting gameplay, awesome models and you really can't go wrong can you?
Not to mention it looks relatively cheap to build an army... c'mon saturday!!!!!!
Reinholt
· 7 months ago
The allies thing also eliminates one of the major problems that plagues both 40k and Fantasy:
Flavor of the Month power lists. Even if the armies have incremental books that come out later detailing them further, as long as you can take 25% from somewhere else, you're in great shape. In short, if your list has weaknesses, you can cover them with other units from other lists. More so, a lot of those choices are at least decently reasonable with regards to background.
I think it's an extremely smart move from a game design perspective, and also a good way to sell a lot more miniatures.
fedupN
· 3 months ago
Always been a large Tolkien fan. The game, however, never grabbed me. Too much focus on heroes, too few models out there, and I didn't like the way the turns played out and how you moved units and such. Also, we know how the story ends! ;) Also...TINY TINY models....so very tiny. In the end, it was simply not enough to justifty an investment of time and money. This new game and the review though, has kindled my interest. A slimmed down Warhammer Fantasy movement ruleset? Sounds like potential to me. I hope to see it played, maybe borrow an army and give it a whirl. Thanks for the review!
VictoryPoints
· 3 weeks ago
Very good review! I like the way you interleaved the photos with the game review. I was not a big fan of Warhammer fantasy but I do like 40K. I've always been interested in Middle-Earth but I never bought into the strategy game until this came out. I've been picking up painted armies somewhat cheaply on ebay (though the amount of damage on the typical army got that way will turn you off to that approach pretty quickly) and I am gearing up to do Osgiliath. When I first saw it in the films I knew I just had to do the Fantasy Stalingrad!
All Comments
I hope alot of the simple, easy, fun, non-adversial creep into the next Warhammer/40k upgrades.
It sounds like a game I might actually like to play (as oppose to just paint).
Play it. Play it against someone who knows it in and out. Get your butt whipped into a pulp by a real vet and you'll see how tactical it can be.
Weird.
You really have to think about "What if my opponent gets the initiative? What then?" You need to have a hero around for a "Heroic Move", and the rest of the plan.
Not at all like 40k, where the ONLY chance to get the initiative order changed is with a "6" at the beginning of the game.
Ahem.
This game rocks my socks off. Has had me painting in all my free time, surfing ebay, raiding my Christmas money and trading my shorts off on Bartertown. I cannot get enough of these minis and can't wait till everyone else gets their books so I can have a steady stream of opponents. Really fun, really bloody and very cinematic. You guys are gonna dig it.
As a longtime LoTR player I really like the fact that I don't have to start with Warhamer Fantasy to join some mass battles on my LGC's gaming tables!
1) Khamul's rules are sooooooo broken, they are way too good, his 5+ you killed yourself (in combat) is cheesy), i will along with y staffer friend, be chasing matt ward around gamesday with sticks!
2) not to be picky but your 'damaged' formation bit is wrong-ish, you are really supposed to take models from the back rank of the furthest away unit from combat
all in all a great game though!
The game's not for everyone that is for sure, but its for everyone that enjoys a tight rule set, strategy and telling a good story.
I've had a chance to play many games with this system, and I love it to pieces. Yes, to pieces.
I see your point about the tight rules set and strategy - this seems incredibly strong in both those areas and I echoe the sentiments of those who hope for a similar approach in 40k. But the storytelling aspect is what's always put me off the Lord of the Rings games. I love a good story and I love Lord of the Rings, but however you approach these games you're either re-enacting parts of the story already told or playing out events that never happened in the books and are likely to contradict the source material. I wish I could get around this, really, cos the game sounds great
I mean, just the other day, I had a battle involving morannon (heavily armored orcs) against arnor and gondor armies, and my army was led by the Mouth of Sauron.
Never happened in the source material, but damn me it was fun!
One is to play 'counter-factual'. Pick a story event and assume that it something different happened. And then work out with your opponents what would likely have happened then. That will give you a lot of fun opportunities.
For example: Borromir wins the arguement, and the Fellowship decide to go south, around the Misty Mountains, through the gap or Rohan and Saruman's territory instead of through Moria. That could have changed everything. Yout then just have to work out interesting scenarios to play.
You could also do this at the height of the war: Assume Gollum captured the ring from Frodo some time while they were going through the marshes. No-one else knows this. Gollum runs away and hides. There are still going to be a lot of big battles, and the outcome is not going to be certain at all.
The other way is to pick a time after the Lord of the Rings. Say, 60 years after the Return of the King, one of the other 'nameless horrors' in the depths of the world raises an army, manufactures some orcs etc.
I really do know what you mean about being put off by the story. But with a bit of effort, you can create a whole new story to tell, and battles to fight.
Someone mentioned 'get your butt whooped by vets' earlier in this thread about this game. How long has this game been out? I didn't know it was out long enough for vets of War of the Rings to even exist. lol!
But thats still doesn't make them a vet. So what? They were playing one game for 8 years, that doesn't make them a pro at another game lol.
Yeah I am a vet at RT, 2nd, 3rd and 4th, but I have no clue wtf is going in 5th lol.
Really pleased with the new minis as well, both the army of the dead and the ent kits are quite striking. Same goes for the new command blisters. The large movement bases are also ideal for displaying 40k minis.
Another, more subtle, reason this game is great is that it is a great statement about GW being a "miniatures company" rather than a "game company". GW has said this all along, but many punters have chosen to ignore that. This new game (that plays beautifully and with a great scope) doesn't require a new range of miniatures in new packaging with a new set of POS. It is a great mechanism for selling more miniatures without making any new ones. This is a good thing!
The suggestions that WoTR could lead to new developments in 40K and Warhammer is an interesting one. I like to think that the release of this second game for the same miniatures line could lead to other games in the same universes that use the existing line of 40K or Warhammer miniatures. Kill Teams or Combat Patrol need not be an adaptation of the 40K rules anymore. They could be their own rule sets. That would also be a great thing!
I'm looking forward to throwing down with my gallant defenders of the Free Peoples very soon! Bring on the War of The Ring!
Cheers
Dave
Quite looking forward to it - my mumaks will block out the sun!
one-ring.co.uk
thelastalliance.com
Both will offer excellent LOTR/WOTR advice and tips.
I posted a response here too.
The best LOTR/WOTR sites are
one-ring.co.uk
and
thelastalliance.com
Both excellent, and have been there from the very beginning.
also for painting/scenery, try getting hold of some of the later (issue 25 onwards) of battle games in middle earth
Is also a really good place. Very friendly and helpful forums and lots of good painting and modelling guides.
one-ring.co.uk is the site you are thinking of.
"you get EVERY ARMY in the game in the core book. You just buy this one book, and add minis."
For me; these are the two most important things about this game. I love the setting, and I love the 40K setting. But I get really tired of ropey rules.
Having the game developed almost from the ground up (there are clear influences from the SBG - which is a good game, just not for massed combats), and most importantly; having tested the game rules with all of the troops and armes avoids the major problem that has always aflicted 40K: constantly changing rules.
Even when the 40K core rules stay stable for a while, they are constantly being affected by new codices. Some have a bigger impact on the game than the others, but the overall effect is to cause rules chaos: hardly anyone knows all the rules, and recent developments seriously unbalance previously written rules / army choices.
I've only played this new game once, and watched a couple of other games. But as with the SBG; you really have to give it a go. You watch it, or read the rules and think 'this is so simple, where is the strategy?' But you play it; and then you see. You don't worry about nuts and bolts of rules, you _just_ have to worry about strategy.
I've seen people ask several times about the random turn element and ask where the strategy is in that. The answer is not just in might points giving you options to over-ride the turn sequence. The answer is partly that this _is_ where the stragey comes in. As in battle, not everything is guaranteed. You have to plan for multiple eventualites. You have to try to stack up the odds in your favour, but you can never guarantee that things will go the way you hope.
Something that strikes me as odd about games like 40K is you can have units moving into the open on one turn 100% confident that they will not be shot because the game is about to end. Or they can leave cover within charge range 100% certain that they will not be shot before they reach their opponents. This strikes me as playing to the rules of the game, rather than to the feel of the game. Nothing in war is that certain. You can maneovre well and minimise the chances of being shot. You should never be in a position of _knowing_ that you will not be shot simply because 'it's my turn next'.
The WotR rules seem very playable. I'm really looking forward to this game's general release, and I really hope lots of people give it a try.
The great thing about WOTR is that now none of the WOTR players have an excuse to not try out SBG - they have all the mini's they need to play! Get the main rulebook, a supplement for the race your playing in WOTR, and perhaps Legions and your set!
Once again, there are some fantastic LOTR sites out there at the moment:
one-ring.co.uk - the site has been revamped and is looking better than ever, and has added a WOTR sub-forum to cater to all you WOTR players. It has an excellent community, not to mention an awesome painting compeition, and a huge amount of articles for gaming, terrain, and painting.
thelastalliance.com - been there since the start, not much has changed round there though, no WOTR section yet, but some useful info there all the same.
It is really cool that you can pick a force and can have 25%(?) of allies. That means that if there are some models you like you can take them in your army even if they are mordor instead of isenguard or whatever. That, and the everything in the one book makes this game a very appealing option. Throw in fast and exciting gameplay, awesome models and you really can't go wrong can you?
Not to mention it looks relatively cheap to build an army... c'mon saturday!!!!!!
Flavor of the Month power lists. Even if the armies have incremental books that come out later detailing them further, as long as you can take 25% from somewhere else, you're in great shape. In short, if your list has weaknesses, you can cover them with other units from other lists. More so, a lot of those choices are at least decently reasonable with regards to background.
I think it's an extremely smart move from a game design perspective, and also a good way to sell a lot more miniatures.
In the end, it was simply not enough to justifty an investment of time and money.
This new game and the review though, has kindled my interest. A slimmed down Warhammer Fantasy movement ruleset? Sounds like potential to me.
I hope to see it played, maybe borrow an army and give it a whirl. Thanks for the review!