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I'd also like to see the Death Korps style troopers done in plastic - it doesn't have to be the Krieg stuff so that Forge World still has something special to offer, but I'd like a mini that has that sort of World War 1 'Gas Mask' look to it.
Yesterday I had three arbiter sentinels flame, bolt, CC, and explode their way through a total of 20 buffed stealers and 3 hybrids. 3", 4", and 5" explosion radii, respectively. Ka-BOOM! Hehehe.
RTM
With all the new stuff i wonder how extensive the fluff section will be i hope it is as big as the SM codex that would make me very happy.
Not too long before release either if may 2nd is correct.
Griffons are nifty, but ultimately I would prefer Heavy Mortars and Thudd Guns become more prevalent. I find that my one Krieg staple unit is the Thudd Gun (I wiped out 2/3 of a squad of Termies with a battery of Thudds). I also hope that they make Roughriders even better, but the rumor mill seems oddly silent on them.
the recrution process of any SM chapter will not look for psychic powers, they are considerered a mutation (by the apothecarys) and those individuals are passed on to the librarium for further training. Its just a SM with powers, how strong those are doesn't matter in the first place.
I would guess the real strong psykers are too strong or to dangerous and thus beeing contained or executed by the -][- or other imperial forces.
"Griffons are nifty, but ultimately I would prefer Heavy Mortars"
by the stats the griffon is a heavy mortar mounted on a chimera chassis
Oh, and the difference between a Griffon and a Heavy Mortar is that the Griffon is a Heavy choice (stealing the slot of a Leman Russ or Basilisk) while a Heavy Mortar is an Elite choice. If that seems silly to you too, then you just got the joke:)
would this matter if the rumor with the Leman Russ Squadrons is true... otherwise yes, i still doubt this would come, whats the use of Squadrons if you can't field more than one (due to the point cost, its not that they come for free :))
Griffons can be useful, but for 200 points I can put 4 Heavy Mortars on the table and only take up one Elite slot. I can then use up another Elite slot and spend 280 points for 4 Thudd guns. Yeah, I'm happy you prefer your Griffon to my batteries:)
Anyone placing bets on what type of army list will come out on top? Tank heavy, troop heavy, or what? Let's hear from some I players who really understand the army and they way it plays.
Thanks in advance!
-Six
Seriously, though, there are some great models out there with kilts. A highland army loaded with gunz would be an awesome force to face.
RTM
special rules which is given to all highland troops:
incomprehensible: All highland forces speak in a strong scottish accent and as such cannot be understood by any english speaking human or alien. due to this a highland army commander is unable to access help from any allies whatsoever.
Show Asses: Al highland forces bare their asses to the enemy, any unit not firing may take a 6+ invulnerable save instead of their usual 5+ save, representing the enemy being revolted at the sight but also the lack of flak armour now protecting the squad.
I like what seems to be happening with the Sentinel (more weapon options), and I hope it will be an all plastic kit with th option for a closed crew compartment
What other "old units" are there aside from the Griffon?
same rules and everything except make them on bikes thanks then I would consider their use.
but who cares how if it was possible or useful if something looks cool, thats what a fantasy / sifi game is about ;) - psykers, super human SMs, aliens of all sorts... who cares about reality....
im sure thats why they are at least horses and not bikes or some other means of transportation
Mules. Trained mules. $10,000 apiece, but still cheaper and more reliable than motorcycles in the mountains of Afghanistan.
RTM
Warfare does NOT take place on a firing range.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/12/12/kandah...
True story. They are honestly the best choice for the terrain.
Realism also shouldn't be at the top of the list, otehrwise we wouldn't have these great heroes running through artillery fire to fight hand to hand. That also isn't something they do in the 21st century ;-)
The Germans used mounted troops for recon and patrol. And the Poles, contrary to popular, very mistaken, belief, used cav quite successfully.
Look at the atitude of expendable guardsmen. Commissars and Summary Execution. Even the overall shape of the Leman Russ battle tank has far more in common with a WW1 tank than a modern tank. I consider the guard to be an army that "feels" WW1 - WW2, during which horses were still used. Not always successfully admittedly. Likewise, if you leave your rough riders in clear LOS of your enemy he will easily annihalate them (and with good reason, as many terminator squads have deep striked into the wrong paddy field in the past) Used correctly, they can be devastating.
Really GW?... Please loose the horses for anything semi-practical.
plus where else would you get delicious horse glue! lol
You sir, fail.
There is a lot to be said for the utility of the Rough Riders, and a lot to be said for their fluff.
If its taking away from the "sci-fi 4st (lolwut4st) millenium", then too bad! Horses are quite prevalent in guard fluff. The Attilans and the Death Korp of krieg use them quite a bit.
Any notion of them not fitting into the setting is a product of your own denials and prejudice.
And frankly, its incredibly rude to refuse to play some one because they took a specific unit from their roster. Especially against some one using a unit out of a codex that is suffering right now.
*sarcasm>
and from here on out I refuse to play any SM who takes whirlwinds. Marines are supposed to fast-moving/hard-hitting, Why would they have artillery?
*/sarcasm>
- Drax.
I like the current Psycher models, but not tier rules. I would really like 3-4 powers they could pick from, and a 'master psycher' for the comman unit that could take a force weapon. The rest of them should simply sellect from a list of equelly usefil powers. But now I'm just wish-listing.
Auretious Taak.
What I dislike the most about the current sanctioned psychers is their randome rolls. I would prefer they have a list of powers to select from. I'd say 3-4 of them, a shooting power, a defence, like a psy hood, but only for the unit they're in and the leadership bubble booster ability. You could simply select what they do before the game, allowing you to have a relyable tactical tool at your disposal.
Their powers can be weak as they are now. just make them a relyable power, thater then 1 in 6 times, having no powers at all.
In addition, there is a logical disconnect between much of the fluff and the actual gameplay. We call this a balancing effect. In the fluff a SM tac squad can hold off an entire Ork Waagh! In the game, those Orks are going to stomp that squad if the is all that is on the table.
This thread is dealing with game mechanics. If such things offend your sense of how the fluff should be enacted in the game, then I suggest not reading mechanics-based threads. Please try to keep little things like that in mind.
Perhaps I do need to keep dreaming, but you quite obviously need to climb down off your high horse and remove the stick from your derriere, Mr. Taak.
Apart from that, it all looks good.
Bring back the Commissar trainee squad (40k compilation). Guard to use Rhino and Landraiders (1st ed army list!) Guard to have assault troops with jump pack option - not expensive FW elysian rubbish.
And squats - retro is the new black.
If you can re-fluff SM to have sternguard and vanguard and all that new guff then you can bring back squats.
But seriously, the commisar trainee Squad sounds cool.
The point here was a great many people would like to see an army of pure roughriders or as close to as possible including rough rider command squads. Personally,a s the general of an IG army I don't want to be stuck on foot when I can be riding some sort of cavalry beasty around in style. Sure there's the armoured fist optioon but that doesn't allow me to charge into battle and impale my foes on a sharp stick up close and personnal now does it.
denzark, word to you brother, sounds like you started NYE before most of us and beat us, though ours was so epic it went to the 2nd of January so hey, awesome.
Squats aren't dead and gone, even as a single 0-1 choice as a more elite unit in the list would be awesome. They are Retro and so many people would love tos ee those trikes make another appearance!
Auretious Taak.
Honestly, every IG codex rumour thread has about fifty comments on them about dark eldar and how it's so terribly unfair that they're not being released next. Same for the apocalypse threads.
Has anyone ever considered that the reason why they aren't being released next is because GW want to make sure they get done properly and are focussing on the armies that need the least work done in the meantime?
If they release the codex and break DE even more, then complain, but for now get over it and be patient!
Personally I can see the advantage of 3 Plasma Cannons that can move and fire but don't over heat, but unless you're fighting MEQs and Terminators the Assault Cannon would seem the superior (and probably cheaper) option.
would also be nice to see the drop sentinels as a codex option for those of us that love our drop guard.
On cavalry I would love to see IG motorcycles come back to represent a morre high tech advanced regiment with the bikes being part of the recon and flank tie in and LOC troops.
I could see a Recon company with platoons of command squad Sentinals with the line squads being 4-6 bikes. Company HQ in Chimera. MMMM, sounds like a future BoLS mini-dex there lol.
I have an old metal Griffen and use it from time to time in Apoc play. A battery of 3 with the same rules as Motars/Basilisk do now would make a lot of sence. After all, everybody knows for a given size of shell you get more bang out of a morter bomb than a gun shell.
The old units may include the Leman Russ varients rumored before.
I can't see splitting Sentinels into 'scouting' and 'non-scouting' based on weapons load-out. Does the extra weight make its footsteps too loud? Rubbish!
I like the sanctioned psyker models, but unless the rules get a makeover I'll keep them at arm's length.
I loath the current Ratling models. The unit itself is pretty good, but the models are a wretched hold-over from previous cartoonish editions. I can only hope that they make them fit the dark feeling of the rest of the line.
Well said, that man!
Most successful cavalry has been more like mounted infantry than the shock troops most folks think of.
On the other hand, I have my IG configured more along the lines of a modern US Army Armored Cavalry Regiment (ACR). I envision the Chimera as roughly equivalent to a M2 Bradley, the Leman Russ as an analog for the M1 Abrams, and that leaves the Sentinel without a clear equivalent. I tend to use my Sentinels in a RSTA fashion (Reconnaissance, Surveillance, and Target Acquisition). The regimental reserve is an armor company to provide sufficient weight to the counter-punch. Tom Clancy's nonfiction Armored Cav is an excellent reference.
I certainly agree with your estimation of cavalry. Once modern weapons became prevalent on the battlefield, dragoons were often more effective than dedicated cavalry as they dismounted to fight, providing a more stable platform for shoulder-fired weapons. Extending that metaphor a bit makes an Armored Fist squad a dragoon of sorts, I suppose.
Ultimately, I have nothing against Sentinels, and generals are certainly free to assign them whatever battlefield role they wish. I'm just edgy about having GW stick a light vehicle into a force-org slot where it doesn't belong.
Tarantula, Rapier laser Destroyer, Thudd Gun, Imperial Guard bikers on bikes or jetbikes, Imperial guard Landspeeders, Penal Legion (with suicide troops), Subhumans (beastmen and squats!) Whiteshield squads, Jetpack assault troops, battledroids... They all deserve to be re-released!
A few squats could also be cool... http://www.geocities.com/adeptus40k3/squats/Squ...
I get a cover save!
Not against this you don't!
Pack infantry around the tank to keep CC units away..
Nice
Overpowered.
Evil
And xenos mounts for rough riders too!
Yes, their BS and WS suck and there's a 1 in 6 chance they get nothing...but I think the odds with the other powers are pretty nifty for what you pay in points. One thing I'd say is don't bother giving them any wargear....keep them as 12 points a piece.
Their current powers aren't fantastic, I'll agree, but for 12 points I wouldn't expect them to be...looking at the cost comparison of a SM librarian should give you an instant wake up call.
Looking at their powers you can
-increase the influence range of your Ld 10 officer to 18" each game turn
-null psychic powers again him and his unit on 4+
-have D3 Str 3 power weapon attacks in combat
-get an anti-tank troop in your squad who can potentialy wreck any vehicle with a little luck (12 pts to take down a monolith??)
-have a shooting attack of D6 shots at Str 3
True, the above powers look quite weedy and weak but for 12pts what do you expect?
I'd suspect, though, that the new Sanctioned Psykers might take on a twist of new powers just as the Librarian did in the SM codex....but then they'll become a little more expensive and people will most likely complain again.
Like I said.....5 Psykers for 60pts is a pretty nice deal...if for nothing more than potentialy beefing up squads by adding that extra wound to your infantry and maybe gaining a little extra hitting power.
RTM
Hmm...anti- Lash of Submission, eh...?
The thing is about all the eamples....
-increase range of leadership: the best one, but only a 1 in 6 chance, and if I have enough psychers to stick them with troops, then possible I get this power on a troops squad with ld 7.
-Null psychic powers- against this unit. Honestly, my command squads don't usually get hit with a lot of psychic powers/firepower, as they are generally not that much of a threat compared to my tanks, vets, and heavy weapons squads. The chance of this coming into play are quite remote. Besides, you can always take an allied Inquisitor with psychic hood...
-D3 str 3 power weapon attacks... - on a WS 2 guy with a 5+ save. This is not at all goo.
-An anti-tank troop? - No, this is a haywire grenade. On ONE guy. Not worth 12 points.
- d6 shooting attacks? that''s a heavy d6 lasgun. For 60 points I can get 10 guys who are GUARANTEED to get 12 shots off in rapidfire range.
I'm sorry, but there's no disguising the fact that psykers are horribly overpriced and their powers weak.
And I've gone the route of the Honorifica and Force Weapon, and it is still weak. Anything you would want to wound with a force weapon is either going to be a: so tough that it's hard to wound with str3, or b: much faster than you and will probably kill the psyker first.
I love the idea, but the execution is so very, very wanting.
60 points! That's 5 rough riders with str5 init 5 power weapons.
Sorry to be so harsh, but I speak from someone who loved the idea when I read the codex and tried and tried to make it work, only to abandon it in despair...