Bell of Lost Souls - Latest Comments in RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

Oberst Viktor Morte — Fri, 13 Feb 2009 06:15:11 -0000

I have serious doubts that you'll ever see this, but on the off chance that you might, I offer my apology. My reaction when I first read it was that you were simply being sarcastic with a tone of malcontent. However, this was not the case, and my response was a severe over-reaction. I must have been havnig a really poor day. =(

I still don't like the idea of Special Characters, but there was no reason for me react like that. My apologies. No hard feelings from here mate.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

Chris — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 14:41:53 -0000

"Space Marines are made to be heroes. Guard have to rise to the challenge."

Love that - it's why I play IG

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

Gr8wall — Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:04:44 -0000

I chose IG because I didn't want a band of individual heroes. I wanted an army or faceless soldiers that will fight and die in the emperors name. If you want heroes go play marines or chaos or Inquisition. IG is all about the tanks and the horde and the big guns.

Anyway how powerful can they make an IG special character? I mean he is still only human... it doesn't really make sense (fluff wise) if he can take on, say, a marine hero.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

Knight of the Lion — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:29:30 -0000

lol nice one

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

Knight of the Lion — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:15:30 -0000

I find it quite good as it makes them at least slightly near the gaunt point price (3 points each) and cheaper than orks in which the Orks would slaughter them terribly if they getting into assault range.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

g. — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 00:59:10 -0000

now you may or may not have noticed a diminishing number of daemon hunter codecies in your local gw's, this as i was clued in to today may be for a well kept secret that is I am implying through information I have recently aquired that (with no gaurentee) a new update for that army

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

GrogDaTyrant — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:02:16 -0000

Space Wolves.
Followed by Dark Eldar... maybe.
And then Howling Griffons, Black Templar, White Templar, Rainbow Marines, Space Sharks, and Flesh Tearers.

Then they might get on to Tyranids, or other armies.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

TSINI — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:42:55 -0000

really, i'm dissapointed with the space marine codex as they should have made a character creator list, like the space marine commander (you can give him what weapons you want for your leader) but they should have made it much more modifiable, (a set of special rules to add, or profile upgrades) but as they chickened out and went for the ultramarines, the space marine commanders are very very specific (the notion of buying the same model and painting it yellow for imperial fists etc makes me shudder at the lack of freedom and imagination and even converting yourown model, but with exactly the same wargear YUCK)

but as has already been said, the guard are a totaly different animal, every commander in the army should be utterly scratch buildable

there are a bazillion commanders of the guard and all the fun is in the collecting, modelling, painting, and the expression on your opponents face when he unvails his small force of blue and yellow marines, and you pull out your commnder standing on a rock thrusting his ornate power sword into the air, and the thousands of men, each individually posed and painted in comouflage. the mud encrusted leman russ, and even the man with a remote control standing next to the cyclops demo tank.

if they dumb down the guard codex to anything near the marines they'll be finding me for one, only playing against people who'll let me use the old codex with the freedom of doctrines and wargear.

a side note for Games Workshop :

just make sure the imperial guard is as personaliseable as it can feasably be for us die hard guard fans!

personaliseable, it wasn't a word till i made it one!

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

stayscrunchyinmilk — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:06:30 -0000

Holds breath for new varient lists..........................................

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

stayscrunchyinmilk — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 12:03:50 -0000

Look in the back of the main rule book under "Space marine Tanks". It appears to say "Leman Russ Annhialator", but it's not in the marine codex.

Hmm I wonder which marine force will do that?

do you think they'd make a seperate sprue for it, or is it possible it'll be the much vaunted "New leman russ Varient on the Revised Sprues". I'm slightly puzzled. Hmm I wonder.....

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

OK — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 03:24:18 -0000

The nature of the guard emphasizes its anonymity, its 'average joe' quality. What's more heroic, an uber-hero (well for IG) officer/general with an enhanced stat line (that happens to be forced upon you if you want certain options) and wargear or a guardsman taking on the enemy with nothing but a lasgun and a prayer to the emperor?
I personally chose to play guard because I liked the fact that my 'troops' were average men cast into the line of duty, with all of the weaknesses that come with it. After all, have you ever seen a war movie where the protagonists did not face impossible odds that made their victory all the more significant?
I respect your liking of SC, but they effectively add heroics where I like ubiquity. Give me 'Joe the plumber' 40k any day...

I couldn't agree more Harry, If you want a whole new fell to your army you shouldn't be forced to take a SC.

Instead maybe just more doctrines, OR Instead of SC have a new rank in the Command Squad like, Truly Heroic Senior Officer General or such, and have special choices that only he can take.

Like Tank Commander meaning that he is mounted in a command tank and gives a new force organization type.

Something like this would give the guard something like SC with out forcing anything.

This would allow you to give him what ever you want and not take a power fist or such, in an army that does not want to get into close combat.

Other than special rules YOU pick he may not be that great. I think this is the way all codex's should deal with in regards to SC.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

TheLuc — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:58:20 -0000

the new models is about time and i'm sure they gonna be great.. on the other hand if they really plan to do it as the SM codex there gonna be some ups and downs, in the case the core of the book is solid enuff the SC issue won't be a trouble as it is in the SM one

the new space marine codex is clearly the first wave of herohammer 40k, i won't talk for anyone but when i convert is to do my own stuff not some copycat of some SC to finish as a count as. as a fact tied to the rules the SC is a big restriction in the end

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

BP — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:28:53 -0000

I realize that at this point it is just rumor that Imperial Guard are going to get the same treatment as the space marine codex, and had a few thoughts on it.

Hopes:
add an auxiliary grenade launcher (sort of like a combi-weapon, the M203 exists, so makes sense, and has a precendent in the FW D-99 and elysian lists)

addition/tuning of doctrines, not their removal.

as far as doctrines go they make more sense than the special character route. the reasoning for this is because of what the imperial guard represent. with space marines it is an elite force with a very defined commander, and a chapter only takes on one major mission at a time which makes the regular appearance of unique heroes reasonable. with guard the same is not true, elements of the same regiment could be in 10 different places, and while heroism may occur, this is already represented with the 'medals' system in the current codex.

if you want a particulary tactically brilliant officer: macharian cross
if you want a sergeant who is particularly heroic: honorifica imperialis
if you want a sergeant/officer who can survive wounds: medallion crimson (like a purple heart of sorts)

similarly, doctrines govern the way a regiment is trained and equipped, much like the modern military has its own system that governs the way specific units are trained, equipped, and fielded.

take for example my own regiment:

doctrines used:
Carapace, Drop Troops, Veterans, Camo, Special Weapon Squads.

the idea is that they are a spec ops force that utilizes some of the best equipment the imperium has to offer in order to complete dangerous, behind-the-line missions.

the reason for taking veterans is because they have more firepower and flexibility than stormtroopers, and can take camo. the special weapon squads all serve as sniper support.

how would I go about doing this as a SC-type army?

given the way the abilities are split through the new SM codex, it is reasonable to assume that the three major doctrines I take would all be on special characters.

one thing that many people forget is that doctrines have restrictive drawbacks for a reason, the primary one being that if you want to take it on one squad, every squad that can must take it (i.e. carapace, if you have one CS take it, everyone who can has to)

really doctrines make the most sense for the IG's anonymity and overall force makeup, and the thought of fielding 9 tanks is simply ridiculous, simply make them able to do what they represent, rather than as the sitting emplacements you have to treat them as to be effective.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

All shook up — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:34:26 -0000

Any word on whether Ciaphas Cain is one of the characters?

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

Cyberdog — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 13:23:11 -0000

I just hope that they would include Schaeffer and Kage and give a model for Kage..... No, I ask too much....

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

wildTBC — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:34:14 -0000

Sigh! ....2nd edition super characters time is upon us once again ...
all you need now is an army full of lame arse characters with there magical nick-knaks of doom to win because ever other player has them, don't know about you guys but i don't want to have same army as everyone else
i would much rather have the diversity of Doctrine system and the marine traits then ever player in the world have the same 2 most playful characters out of there army list

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

Cloudhammer — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:43:37 -0000

oh poo... i liked doctrines, they made IG different from the other Imperial armies... my lists are focused around the few doctrines that are free, mainly Drop Troops, Close Order Drill, Storm Troopers, Veterans and Heavy Weapons Platoons. Man, this is gonna blow, especially since the time of the new dex's release is right around the time i expect to finish collecting IG

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

UltramarineFan — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:43:06 -0000

Then again non-power gamers migth not mind the new SC system.
Well, most of them.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

UltramarineFan — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:37:49 -0000

But no one can do it like Hatchett.
If you've been on the reseving end you'll know that I speak the "Truth".*

*Joke that sixsystems and Hatchett will get.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

DistopianFuture — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:57:27 -0000

Nice use of my name there. :)

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

sxoa — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 06:11:44 -0000

You are correct that the fluff (novels and codices) show themes of everything you described except racism (its actually speciesism, to paraphrase Pratchett "white and black banded together against green"). However, these broadly drawn themes provide a backdrop against which the tales of heroes and villains (be they larger than life like Abaddon or simple rank and file people like Jon) take place. You have admitted yourself that it is only your OPINION that these conflicts "come far lower down in importance in the fluff" Other people may have different opinions than you and I don't think that warrants getting annoyed about.

You're also incorrect when you say "Try reading something that wasn't part of Codex: Space Marines, and you may see this somewhere." It shows up all over the freaking place.

Where you might ask?

Well theres the description of Prince Yrriel taking the spear that would eventually kill him so that he could save his craft world from an otherwise indestructible hive tyrant. That was in the old Hive War box set for Epic I think. I think it also appears in the newer the Eldar Codex (I don't have my books on me right now).

Then theres the description of Yarrick and Ghazghull (both of those are probably misspelled but hopefully close enough that you know who I'm talking about) duking it out. Also a widely used picture of the colossal ork towering over a scrappy little defiant commissar. Those appear in the Ork codex and the IG codex both, I believe.

Then of course theres virtually the entire 40k line of novels and short stories from the Black Library (even the background information book Xenology focuses on individual people and critters). You should check them out, many of them are quite good. I give you fair warning though that most of them focus on a collection of characters (and their relatively limited in scope activities) as opposed to the Imperium and its political structure in its entirety, so it might not be your cup of tea.

You might be right about the Necron codex though. I'm not too familiar with it, though I hear the individual lords are going to be getting more personality so they may be injecting some into that in the near future.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

sxoa — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 05:29:45 -0000

Why does everyone's rank and file have the same wargear? Why can't I equip every guardsman with a storm bolter or a las cannon? Because this is the army. You're handed your clothes, your boots and your gun. Its not a trip to the supermarket regardless of whether you're a high rank.

Thats a more fluffy answer, from a crunch perspective theres game mechanics balance to take into consideration.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

static grass — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:55:31 -0000

It wont work like that. You pay the points for "Creed". You paint up your Creed model (or conversion) in catachan colours or whatever, give him a new name "Jon McCreedy" and roll with that.

I have the white scars guy in my "DA successor chapter" - Angels of Redemption. I am using the marine codex.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

Dexter — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 00:45:55 -0000

I have a few problems with special characters, including 'why does everyone's commander now have the same wargear?'

Eugh, by spreading special characters around it makes things so generic and dull in the command section. Also, special characters are too powerful. Way too powerful, compared to your regular guys.

It seems like there isn't any point in taking a regular character anymore, especially after limiting the armory.

Re: RUMORS: IG Rumblings - Part 2

TwoHeartsButOnly1Wound — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:16:26 -0000

Of course when you talking about a million imperial worlds and a system in place that actively kills the working class either through drafts/war or less than adequate safety measures in industrial labor your generating orphans at an astounding rate.

I really have no basis for throwing a number (such as on average 1,000 students per world) out there but it seems pretty conservative as for all the shrine worlds or agriworlds with no or limited programs you have hive worlds that probably have multiple programs serving 50,000-100,000 students or so.

So for the sake of argument an average or 1,000 per world it is. Your still talking about more than 3 times as many highly trained militant orphans as people in the United States.

And that's not even taking into account the sisters and all the little girls they kidnap and turn into zealous killing machines (or nurses on a less violent note).

Even with all the exceptional individuals that are ground up by the Imperium a fair number have to excel just based on the shear number of humans your dealing with.