Bell of Lost Souls - Latest Comments in WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

jester_prince — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 16:56:52 -0000

Id say 40k is full of a different type of tactics then WHF. Which is good because the situations and tactics used in 40k are more representative of the world its trying to recreate.

The two styles of warfare are entirly different, blocks of infantry is suited for WHF. As was the style in medival times. It relyed on the tactics of a genral to direct a very well orchistrated force and for the blocks of units to perform their manuvers. Its a style that relys on the skill of the genral and alot less on the indevidual units. War was about honour and rules, directing raks of men to their deaths to delay them to be hit frm the flanks. The lines were drawn. Which is why gunpoweder really called for a change in tactics.

Now bring that forward into modern day, the tactics rely alot less on a single genrals ability to direct troops and manuvers, and alot more on the indevidual skills and equipment of the soliders and tank crews themselves. Directing them to take out a unit isnt as easy as telling them to charge a flank. The battle lines are blurry and no longer do troops stand in ranks and wait to be charged. The rules reflect this, winning a real combat is all about setting up the heavy weapons and creating kill zones, or getting that elite squad behind them to disrupt it. The tactics have to be more subtle because its a faster paced game.

I always think of 40k being a snap shot of a 20 min skirmish, each combat over in a few mins of intense gunfights or brutal fighting. WHF I think of as an hour long skirmish where troops manuvering takes a long time.

Saying 40k has no tactics is wrong, its a different style of tactics that represent the style or warfare its based on, which is more in the moment style of thinking. WHF is deffinetly a more cerebral game that requires more forward thinking, chooseing to wheel around a unit, chooseing not to move one ect. I think 40k has gained some of this with the introduction of go to ground and run ect. A Unit of troop not faceing each other is devistating, while in modern warfare, troops arnt lined up in ranks and are much more aware of their surroundings.

Id like to see the ability to return fire in 40k where you give up your movment and shooting phase to return fire during your opponents shooting phase at any unit that fires at you (and allow shots to be split between targets).
Or pin a squad thats not aware of you in night fights (iniative roll perhaps?).

But the tactics are all totaly different.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

socalwarhammerradio — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:39:47 -0000

<html><body><div>Thanks for the info. If you get a chance, be sure to check out the show. If you get anymore news I will be sure to give you credit on the air. </div><div>
</div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Pat </div><div>www.socalwarhammer.net
</div>

<div>

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

MyBlueOblivion — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:49:28 -0000

Sadly, I don't know; my friend just showed me the mission pages of his monthly printout. From the sheer number of them, I would say that it's six missions (like 40k), with six advanced missions that you can use as an alternative. That's just a guess, though. I will, however, try my best to find out what I can, and feed it back over here.
As for skirmishers, I'm afraid I'm a bit in the dark. I have just been told, by several staff members, that most of the rules won't be changing a great deal, if at all. Some stuff, like magic, is being tweaked a fair bit. One thing I can confirm is a question on the use of blast/breath weapons; just like the Skaven army book, all template weapons will hit like they do in 40k (i.e. no partials). Which makes dragon breath actually useful, which for a High Elf player like me, is wonderful news :)
As soon as I know more, I'll let everyone know!

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

socalwarhammerradio — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:11:36 -0000

Well, we will have to wait and see. Can you clarify if it is going to be 12 scenarios or 6 base scenarios with 6 optional scenarios? I guess it makes no real difference, but I am none the less curious. If you have any information can you please let us know, regarding skirmishers? I am understanding that there are some moderate (some would say earthshaking) changes on how they will move and operate. Like with everything else, there is little if any information out there. Well, not much information that is reliable.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

Chuckles — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:14:02 -0000

In Australia fantasy is becoming increasingly popular while 40k is starting to disappear from the tournament scene.

I am not saying fantasy is a better game than 40k because they are totally different but many people I know feel fantasy has more to offer them on a competitive scale. Also many people get board of facing space marines in all there many different forms at least on a minimum 60% of the time.

Fantasy also has a better support system atm including a national ranking system. Apparently 40k is getting one soon so maybe that will increase 40k support.

Anyways lets not f@@k fantasy becuase it is a great game, has some great models and a very passionate growing community.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

MyBlueOblivion — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 05:10:35 -0000

Personally, I'm kinda looking forward to a new edition of WFB. I had a chat a couple of weeks ago with my local store's manager on the subject of the new release, and found out some very interesting tidbits (note: buying the guy a drink first helps, apparently!)
Magic is getting a little tweak, with the possibility of a new miscast table, and a new rule regarding miscasts... if you ever try casting on just one dice, a roll of a 1 will be a miscast (so look out, Dark Elf sorcoresses and VC necromancers).
Movement is apparently getting cleaned up, especially in regards charging... no real word yet, but there might just be a chance that the problems with charging flanks from an odd angle and ending up charging the front will be solved.
The biggest change that we discussed, though, is missions. Pitched battle is not going... but it is getting no less than eleven new friends to play with. I've actually had a look at these (my friend the manager had them on him at the time, in an official GW staff printout), and they will really shake the game up. The missions cover everything from a kind of random deployment, where the two sides have literally stumbled upon each other in the mists, to capturing an enemy outpost, to a meeting engagement in a 12'' wide corridor played between the two short sides of the table... 300, anyone?
All in all, it looks kinda fun. As with everything, though, we'll just have to wait and see.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

MyBlueOblivion — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:49:02 -0000

Which, according to staff at my local GW, get an update within a month or two of the new 'Nid codex for 40k. So expect to see them around february/march. Haven't heard any content rumours yet, we'll just have to wait and see.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

No_Gaming_In_Mississippi — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:29:22 -0000

But GW makes it so easy...... hateing on them that is. I said before that the game may have rudimentary tactics.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

VonKoeder — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:04:55 -0000

I didn't say you hate 40k, I said don't hate on 40k. Its fun. The background as you said is great. GW wouldn't know what to do with product support or customer service if it sat on there collective faces. The game however does have tactics if not simpler and therefore more subtle then certain other games. The scale of it requires some level of tactics. If you cant recognize that then you are hating.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

No_Gaming_In_Mississippi — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:59:46 -0000

Jealous much?

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

VonKoeder — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:43:46 -0000

This is true. Many of these trips we go together and we are always looking for a challenge. Some times we encounter a new cheese or just honestly good players. Most of the time we come across people that just don't know the rules.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

VonKoeder — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:41:27 -0000

Top Player is the title we give to all the players that are to competitive to try to get them to tone it down a notch.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

No_Gaming_In_Mississippi — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:29:49 -0000

You know as well as I do once your game gets good must of the choices are pre-made. You know this. Plus I don't hate 40k, I'm just not a big fan of alot of what GW does to folks like you and me.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

VonKoeder — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:20:22 -0000

He makes mistakes all the time. I can list several. Like when my Britonians killed his stupid Vampire Count no one had ever killed and never could. Or when Grimgor with no ranged support mooned his Empire army and turned to walk away with a win mid field with out ever engaging his lines. You should ask him about it. There are many more. ;)

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

VonKoeder — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:16:30 -0000

There are many choices you make in a game. Many very little you take for granted and experience teaches which one are good and bad. Some you may not even consider part of the game. Just because you have trouble describing how its tactical doesn't mean you have to hate on the idea.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

VonKoeder — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:13:18 -0000

GW is about money. I do not fault them for that however I do call them on the long term destructive policies for a quick buck. Its a shame i want them around for a while.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

socalwarhammerradio — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:06:56 -0000

The one thing to remember is that some army books will be well over 5 years old when this next edition comes out, namely beast of chaos and wood elves. I think with a new edition coming, GW had better think about getting some updates. I know that beasts of chaos, wood elves and a few others are not the big money makers that empire, warriors of chaos and others are, but to almost completely ignore them seems to show that they have little regard for the hobby side of the business.

If GW keeps things going at this rate, it will eventually come down (and it is already heading that way) that only 3-5 core armies will get any type of play. Like many other people, I love modeling, but ultimately it isn't worth it for me to play any army (such as my Beastmen or Wood Elves) without new rules for the armies. At least not playing them in a competitive setting.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

No_Gaming_In_Mississippi — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:09:02 -0000

Looks like me and you are on the same page with this one.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

shakespear — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:13:43 -0000

I think the only "tactics" are list building, game is decided before the first die is rolled.

A 28mm game with 150 miniatures on a 4X6 table has no tactics. 40k players LOVE to talk about flanks, flanking, flank refusal, ect. I think they are confused.

Play a 15mm game, with 150 minis on 4X6 table and you will see tactics.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

Millenium_King — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:51:41 -0000

Cite your sources.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

zealotohio — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:05:10 -0000

tactical

of or pertaining to tactics, esp. military or naval tactics. 2. characterized
by skillful tactics or adroit maneuvering or procedure: tactical movements.
3. of or pertaining to a maneuver or plan of action designed as an expedient
toward gaining a desired end or temporary advantage.
challenging

offering a challenge; testing one's ability, endurance, etc: a challenging
course; a challenging game. 2. stimulating, interesting, and
thought-provoking: a challenging suggestion.
provocative; intriguing: a challenging smile.

The only thing I'm finding challenging is remembering why I decided to
comment on BoLS lol

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

No_Gaming_In_Mississippi — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:27:32 -0000

Just because I live in Mississippi, doesn't mean I don't tarvel outside of Mississippi. I frequently (once or twice a year) travel to Chicago and St. Louis, and usually manage to squeeze out a good number of games which I usually win. All I'm saying is that once you know the core rules of the game, and understand how other army's units interact with your own, you can go on autopilot. What aggravates me is people who insist that 40K is a tactically challenging game. It's not. As I've already posted, if you like the fluff, then by all means, play the game; however, don't try to justify your love of the game by saying that it's tactically challenging. I've played this game for years and I'm telling you...if the game has any tactics in it all, they're only rudimentary tactics. I'm inclined to think that most clear-thinking people that would argue this point are suffering from "fanboy-ism." What fanboyism is to me is people who desperately want to be good at something, so they try to take a skill like memorizing a rule book or codex and turning it around is because of their "mad-tactical" skill. Even GW has said that this game is not balanced and is not meant for competitive play. So what's it going to take?

P.S. Fanboy-ism is alot like alcohol-ism, and alot of other -ism(s). Most of the time you don't realize you have a problem until someone points it out to you.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

No_Gaming_In_Mississippi — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:17:08 -0000

I've been playing 40K since the release of 3rd Ed. of 40K (about ten years). In my gaming clique, I'm considered the top player and list writer. I own five 40K armies, at least 2,000 points each, some as much as 10,000. I also own six Fantasy armies. I've been playing Fantasy since 4th Ed. I've played top tiered players in MS, St. Louis, Chicago, and Memphis, and I almost always come out on top in both 40K and Fantasy. It's not about being an elitist, it's about stating what's there. If you enjoy 40K by all means continue to play it. The fluff is second to none, and the miniatures are pretty good as well. But don't sit up here and say the game is tactically challenging. Because it is not. We play 40K for the spectacle of it. I promise you there are many more games out there that are far more tactically challenging.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

kahoolin — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:47:09 -0000

I'm sick of people saying this. Have you played the latest 40k, are are you stuck in your fantasy ivory tower? The options for going to ground, running, and outflanking all create opportunities for huge tactical decisions in ways totally different from fantasy.

The games represent different types of warfare, "tactics" is not synonymous with standing in blocks and wheeling around. That's only one KIND of tactics.

Gah, I can't stand gamer elitism.

Re: WFB RUMORS: 8th Edition Cometh

Chumbalaya — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:48:16 -0000

Successful troll is successful, well done.

I like Fantasy a lot, I hope they can fix it before it gets any worse.

Trolling Fantasy elitists is so much fun.